First Time Buyer - My Thread.

Justin M

Justin M

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Hi.

My club dissolved in 2024 so I'm going to try to find a plane to fly in 2026. Your feedback is welcome. I read this thread:
S

Thread 'Plane purchase 1st time'

Hi. I am looking for information and advice regarding plane purchase. I understand the process in general ( title search per AOPA etc) after we find plane we are interested in. What do we do 1st? Contact seller? Make written offer? Do title search? Set up escrow, do pre-buy? I want to know what the sequence should be. The pre-buy may be a challenge. He is maintaining the plane at Lexington KY Blue Grass and that is the name of mechanic that pops up for pre-buys in that are. I doubt we can get our local Maryland mechanic to travel to KY so it makes sense to find someone local...

My mission is
* cross country flights for visiting family, with my wife if she can handle the flight length.
* taking friends on local jaunts and sight seeing.
* while traveling away from home, flying around the area to see family in other cities; often bringing someone with me.

Some ideas about the airplane.
* I'd really like experimental, but I don't have time, skills or interest in building.
* I'd love a high wing; but experimental high wings are the exception, not the rule.
* the Lancair IV and Glasair II/III appeal to my wife because she can only take about 4 hours in the plane; she doesn't love the price of the Lancair.

My Location:
* It is expensive to own a plane in my area. Not like I can afford to keep it at Teterboro (KTEB) ha!
* Probably will find a tie-down at a small paved airport in north western New Jersey.
* I haven't found a mechanic yet; but that is something I'd do once I found a plane I wanted to purchase.

Some planes I've considered:
* Glasair Sportsman 2x2 high wing tricycle gear. Unknown cross-country viability
* Lancair IV. I don't have any experience flying a turbo engine; but the speed looks amazing.
* Glasair SII FT. Slower than the Lancair but the fixed gear is probably easier to insure.

My experience:
* About 500 hours, most in Cessna 182
* VFR only, but hope to get Instrument Rating this year

I think my maximum spend is 300K; but that number is way higher than my wife would be willing for us to pay for a plane.

I saw a tricycle Sportman 2x2 for sale, but they won't allow a pre-buy inspection; so I'm not really comfortable with that.
 
Why not a C182 with a BRS? Get a turbo version if you need extra speed. Your wife might like the extra safety.
 
Justin M said:
My mission is
* cross country flights for visiting family, with my wife if she can handle the flight length.
* taking friends on local jaunts and sight seeing.
* while traveling away from home, flying around the area to see family in other cities; often bringing someone with me.
Click to expand...

You might consider that the second two items do not require speed. Whether the first does depends on how far away your family is. The faster your plane, the more it will cost, both in initial purchase and in maintenance. If a slower plane means your trips to see family (how many times a year?) might take an extra 45 minutes, is it really worth the money?

Let me suggest that you've omitted an intermediate step by jumping straight from mission to candidate aircraft. Go back and analyze your missions, and then write a general set of requirements for the plane that will satisfy those missions: number of seats, useful load, speed, endurance, runway length, IFR vs VFR capability, whether an autopilot is essential, etc.

Then think budget, both purchase price and recurring costs (don't forget insurance!).

Knowing all that, you'll be prepared to start looking at planes that satisfy your needs. I suspect you'll find many more options than the three you mentioned.

If your budget becomes the limiting factor, don't forget that you can double or triple it with a partner or two. Alternatively, you can buy a less expensive plane that satisfies 80% of your needs, and rent when you need something more capable.
 
I have a feeling the insurance on an IV would cause a coronary event. Actually any of the ones listed would probably be eye opening. Finding a mechanic with knowledge of these planes locally might prove difficult.

You need to better define the mission. Vaguely defining XC doesn't help. A 51 mile XC for lobster poutine and a 1200 mile trip for fresh lobster are both XC. But very different. What would you do on these XC? How many pounds of meat and luggage? How far?

182, pa24, M20 of some variety if you really want speed.

If you want to take the golf bags and enjoy shoulder room, pa32. If you want 15-20 more knots pa32r
 
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I'd run from the Glasair and and Lancair. The Lancair because it is a very high performance airplane that has killed a bunch of people. The Glasair because it is no longer supported. The sportsman, I'd be OK with that.

I would ask why you're interested in Experimental? The real benefit is the ability to work on it yourself. Are you up for that?
 
Bell206 said:
I've always recommended to do this first. Then leverage his experience to get you the plane that you both consider to be the right one.
Click to expand...
Yes find a mechanic first, then hopefully he can help you find a good plane that fits your mission.
I agree at 500 hours you might be better to fly more hours in a 182. It might turn out to be the right plane for your family?
 
Gary Ward said:
Yes find a mechanic first, then hopefully he can help you find a good plane that fits your mission.
I agree at 500 hours you might be better to fly more hours in a 182. It might turn out to be the right plane for your family?
Click to expand...
182's are great airplanes. Fast enough to get somewhere, enough utility to carry most of the things you want, easy ingress/egress, and easy to sell when the day comes. Also, one won't intimidate your mechanic.
 
I'd take a different track. You want X Country. Put the plane ownership on hold for a year and get your IR. That will open up X Country much more than choice of plane. And with the experience / knowledge of flying IFR, you'll be better able to evaluate what plane you need.
 
Justin M said:
…I think my maximum spend is 300K; but that number is way higher than my wife would be willing for us to pay for a plane….
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CapEx is the cheapest part of plane ownership. Are you mentally prepared in the event you have a catastrophic engine failure on day 2 of ownership?
 
Justin M said:
Hi.

My club dissolved in 2024 so I'm going to try to find a plane to fly in 2026. Your feedback is welcome. I read this thread:
S

Thread 'Plane purchase 1st time'

Hi. I am looking for information and advice regarding plane purchase. I understand the process in general ( title search per AOPA etc) after we find plane we are interested in. What do we do 1st? Contact seller? Make written offer? Do title search? Set up escrow, do pre-buy? I want to know what the sequence should be. The pre-buy may be a challenge. He is maintaining the plane at Lexington KY Blue Grass and that is the name of mechanic that pops up for pre-buys in that are. I doubt we can get our local Maryland mechanic to travel to KY so it makes sense to find someone local...

My mission is
* cross country flights for visiting family, with my wife if she can handle the flight length.
* taking friends on local jaunts and sight seeing.
* while traveling away from home, flying around the area to see family in other cities; often bringing someone with me.

Some ideas about the airplane.
* I'd really like experimental, but I don't have time, skills or interest in building.
* I'd love a high wing; but experimental high wings are the exception, not the rule.
* the Lancair IV and Glasair II/III appeal to my wife because she can only take about 4 hours in the plane; she doesn't love the price of the Lancair.

My Location:
* It is expensive to own a plane in my area. Not like I can afford to keep it at Teterboro (KTEB) ha!
* Probably will find a tie-down at a small paved airport in north western New Jersey.
* I haven't found a mechanic yet; but that is something I'd do once I found a plane I wanted to purchase.

Some planes I've considered:
* Glasair Sportsman 2x2 high wing tricycle gear. Unknown cross-country viability
* Lancair IV. I don't have any experience flying a turbo engine; but the speed looks amazing.
* Glasair SII FT. Slower than the Lancair but the fixed gear is probably easier to insure.

My experience:
* About 500 hours, most in Cessna 182
* VFR only, but hope to get Instrument Rating this year

I think my maximum spend is 300K; but that number is way higher than my wife would be willing for us to pay for a plane.

I saw a tricycle Sportman 2x2 for sale, but they won't allow a pre-buy inspection; so I'm not really comfortable with that.
Click to expand...
While I think buying experimental can be a great plan, your writeup doesn't really point to any particular reason to limit yourself to that. You have a healthy budget for a purchase that could get you into a lot of airplanes, and you don't seem to really want to work on your aircraft (you say no time/skills/inclination to build). Does that include a lack of interest in doing the hands-on maintenance work yourself? Because I'd think that's like half the joy and appeal of owning one! After being a certified owner for 5.5 years, that's 95% of the appeal to me.

Unlike others I'm not opposed to Lancair, and I myself have kept an eye out for the right one for the last 2.5 years. For your mission set though, I'm not sure that really makes sense. Most of the IVs available would stretch your planned budget to the breaking point, which is a number you've said your wife would already be uncomfortable with. You would have very little envelope, financially (or skill wise for that matter) for any error. It also doesn't seem like the right aircraft for local jaunts and sight seeing. And... from what I understand your insurance (if you can get it) would be nauseating, so you'd want to factor that into your already stretched budget.

Lastly, you might want to talk honestly with your wife about whether to count her in as a passenger on the longer XCs if they're part of the mission (the "if she can handle it" is a little concerning). No point in getting the fastest aircraft you can if she's going to be iffy about flying anyways. Better to have a trip time be an hour or two longer and fly in something more forgiving that better suits the budget and mission if she's not going to join you. Just my humble opinion.
 
Those are some tiny little planes. I'm having trouble understanding a wife that prefers them to a C182, but... bravo. :)

It's a seller's market, still, somehow.
 
The 182 will present MHC opportunities...them seats slide back reaaaallll far!
 
Racerx said:
I have a feeling the insurance on an IV would cause a coronary event. Actually any of the ones listed would probably be eye opening. Finding a mechanic with knowledge of these planes locally might prove difficult.

You need to better define the mission. Vaguely defining XC doesn't help. A 51 mile XC for lobster poutine and a 1200 mile trip for fresh lobster are both XC. But very different. What would you do on these XC? How many pounds of meat and luggage? How far?

182, pa24, M20 of some variety if you really want speed.

If you want to take the golf bags and enjoy shoulder room, pa32. If you want 15-20 more knots pa32r
Click to expand...

Right now cross countries are New Jersey to Wisconsin. In the 182M, it was about 6 to 7 hours and required a fuel stop. That length of trip maxed out my wife's air time capacity. In a speedier plane, if we can get from NJ to WI in less than 4 hours, she's a willing participant.

We travel pretty light, but in the 182, we never had any concerns about luggage or about being over weight.

I've been looking at Mooneys, but I'm concerned the maintenance expense is high due to the difficulty of working on them.

Finding a mechanic is a concern I haven't solved yet. But I get the impression that having a mechanic who is familiar with the make and type is helpful. I've prioritized choosing the plane before finding a mechanic.
 
kyleb said:
I'd run from the Glasair and and Lancair. The Lancair because it is a very high performance airplane that has killed a bunch of people. The Glasair because it is no longer supported. The sportsman, I'd be OK with that.

I would ask why you're interested in Experimental? The real benefit is the ability to work on it yourself. Are you up for that?
Click to expand...

I don't mind working on the planes and helped our mechanic a fair amount with the club planes.

The appeal of experimental is being able to work on it and hopefully cheaper maintenance.

I've heard from others that Lancair insurance is prohibitive. I guess the reason insurance is high is due to to the insurance companies having to make payouts.
 
ArrowFlyer86 said:
While I think buying experimental can be a great plan, your writeup doesn't really point to any particular reason to limit yourself to that. You have a healthy budget for a purchase that could get you into a lot of airplanes, and you don't seem to really want to work on your aircraft (you say no time/skills/inclination to build). Does that include a lack of interest in doing the hands-on maintenance work yourself? Because I'd think that's like half the joy and appeal of owning one! After being a certified owner for 5.5 years, that's 95% of the appeal to me.

Unlike others I'm not opposed to Lancair, and I myself have kept an eye out for the right one for the last 2.5 years. For your mission set though, I'm not sure that really makes sense. Most of the IVs available would stretch your planned budget to the breaking point, which is a number you've said your wife would already be uncomfortable with. You would have very little envelope, financially (or skill wise for that matter) for any error. It also doesn't seem like the right aircraft for local jaunts and sight seeing. And... from what I understand your insurance (if you can get it) would be nauseating, so you'd want to factor that into your already stretched budget.

Lastly, you might want to talk honestly with your wife about whether to count her in as a passenger on the longer XCs if they're part of the mission (the "if she can handle it" is a little concerning). No point in getting the fastest aircraft you can if she's going to be iffy about flying anyways. Better to have a trip time be an hour or two longer and fly in something more forgiving that better suits the budget and mission if she's not going to join you. Just my humble opinion.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't mind being able to work on the plane. Maintenance and repair would be fine. While I'm no expert, I enjoy doing it. Hearing how hard it is to maintain a Mooney is daunting.

To me, building sounds very different than maintaining. I watched Josh and Chelsea's videos on their Sling build. Seems a lot different than typical maintenance.

Your comments (and others) about the cost of a Lancair IV is noted. There's a Lancair 360 for sale for 129K with lots of hours left on the engine and prop, but I'm not sure how good a cross country machine it would be.

For my wife, it is about the length of time in motion. After about 4 hours, she starts to feel motion sickness. She doesn't mind traveling in the plane, but more than 4 hours is too much.

This is why shaving 1 or 2 hours off a trip is part of the mission. We want to travel together, but I also want to be thoughtful, careful and mindful of her capacity.
 
WDD said:
I'd take a different track. You want X Country. Put the plane ownership on hold for a year and get your IR. That will open up X Country much more than choice of plane. And with the experience / knowledge of flying IFR, you'll be better able to evaluate what plane you need.
Click to expand...

I'm hoping to get the IR in the plane that I own. I believe would reduce the cost of acquiring the rating.
 
Some other general comments from other posts:

We're not big people, so we don't need a ton of shoulder room. Also, my wife is not a consumer (I know I'm blessed) so bringing a lot of things along isn't our lifestyle.

Finding a mechanic before I have a plane seems hard to do. I have nothing for them to work on to see if they are a good match. They don't know what I'm like to see if they'll accept me as a customer. It might be a regional thing, but it feels like mechanics are always too busy for this type of exploratory project.

Part of the story is the supply and demand in the NYC Metro. It's hard to rent here. Clubs are all full with long waiting lists. Flight schools are focused on their students. I can rent a cirrus for 450 per hour for my cross country projects; but most of the other renting choices don't allow for this type of "take the plane away from the students for 7 or 10 days" trip.

I'd love to find an partnership group to join; as said by others, it would reduce the fixed costs shouldered by us by sharing them with others. That's one thing I'm also exploring. Again, this might be a supply and demand thing; not as many partnerships available so might have to create one of my own.

I sorta feel like if I find a plane I like and works for us, then I can reach out to others and form a new partnership group.

EDIT: Thanks everyone who commented and opined. I appreciate your feedback and thoughts.
 
Sounds like 1-2 person cross countries. Your wife isn’t big. Sounds as if you don’t need the useful load/SUV qualities of a 182.
PA-28R201?
It’s relatively fast for the fuel burn. Longish legs for the airplane class. I took numerous XCs in one I rented and really liked (Bay Area to boulder, CO,
SQL to truckee)
M20s (I’m partial to short bodied ones) too
 
As a Lancair 360 owner I will say that it is a very economical cross country airplane. It isn't good at carrying a boatload of stuff or flying in ice or going into short off paved strips. Insurance is reasonable for the 360; less so for the IV variants. Go to Lancairtalk.com and sign up for that forum if you're interested in Lancairs.
 
FORANE said:
As a Lancair 360 owner I will say that it is a very economical cross country airplane. It isn't good at carrying a boatload of stuff or flying in ice or going into short off paved strips. Insurance is reasonable for the 360; less so for the IV variants. Go to Lancairtalk.com and sign up for that forum if you're interested in Lancairs.
Click to expand...
How is it for IFR?
 
kyleb said:
How is it for IFR?
Click to expand...
Depends on multiple factors of the individual build. How good is the autopilot? My old 235's autopilot wasn't as good as the 360 I own. How are the radios? Composite antennas are harder to ground plane than metal aircraft. They're generally good with roll stability but pitch sensitive. I am comfortable with IFR in them but have 1600+ hours in them.
Here's my 360 coming out of Reno.
Screenshot_2025-02-07-18-09-07-33_ffb2f5e1b976ff98cfc94f359fbce8de.jpg
 
As you have 500 or so hours on the 182, why not a retract 182? That will give you TAS 160 kts. Every mechanic knows (should) how to work on a 182. Gear might be special attention, but these planes seem to keep flying.
 
I would start getting smart on Bonanzas. You can trade cost for speed. Mine is on the very affordable end and runs 145kts TAS. You can buy a newerish one with an IO550 and see 170KTS with plenty of room for two+baggage and even room to take others when you want. You can stay well under 300K for a lot of great planes.

I would try to avoid the ramp tie down. I know this is easier said than done, but it's really important. Especially since you want to help with MX. You need a place to do that.
 
I have a friend who keeps a nice P35 Bonanza at Caldwell if you want me to try to connect a ride. That'll end this experimental conversation pretty quickly :D
 
If you go the experimental route it will ruin certified planes for you forever. After you realize this is how personal aviation should be it just really opens the eyes.

Have some minor issue while away from home that would take hours of frustration and cash in the certified world you just solve yourself in 15 min.

Of the planes mentioned, the 2+2. Not the fastest but very capable and a good IFR platform. The ones built with their factory fast build deal are especially well done.
 
Half Fast said:
You might consider that the second two items do not require speed. Whether the first does depends on how far away your family is. The faster your plane, the more it will cost, both in initial purchase and in maintenance. If a slower plane means your trips to see family (how many times a year?) might take an extra 45 minutes, is it really worth the money?

Let me suggest that you've omitted an intermediate step by jumping straight from mission to candidate aircraft. Go back and analyze your missions, and then write a general set of requirements for the plane that will satisfy those missions: number of seats, useful load, speed, endurance, runway length, IFR vs VFR capability, whether an autopilot is essential, etc.

Then think budget, both purchase price and recurring costs (don't forget insurance!).

Knowing all that, you'll be prepared to start looking at planes that satisfy your needs. I suspect you'll find many more options than the three you mentioned.

If your budget becomes the limiting factor, don't forget that you can double or triple it with a partner or two. Alternatively, you can buy a less expensive plane that satisfies 80% of your needs, and rent when you need something more capable.
Click to expand...

It seems to me that it is easier to buy for the cross country mission; that one is harder to find a place where I can rent for that type of travel.

I can rent a trainer from the local flight schools for a couple hours if I want to go sight seeing with some friends.

In my head, I have some other items you list; I want endurance and speed so my wife is comfortable to come along. Useful load of at least 800 should get us there. I want to get my IFR so I want a plane that will help me get that rating. Runway length of 3000 or more is where we typically fly. My friend has convinced me that autopilot for single pilot IFR is critical; so I'm watching for that as well.

Do others of you find it easy to rent a Bonanza or other IFR cross country plane when you want to travel cross country? Perhaps I'm just missing that opportunity? There's a Cirrus shop that rents G7s at around 450 per hour with daily minimums; but that seems pretty expensive.
 
Justin M said:
It seems to me that it is easier to buy for the cross country mission; that one is harder to find a place where I can rent for that type of travel.

I can rent a trainer from the local flight schools for a couple hours if I want to go sight seeing with some friends.

In my head, I have some other items you list; I want endurance and speed so my wife is comfortable to come along. Useful load of at least 800 should get us there. I want to get my IFR so I want a plane that will help me get that rating. Runway length of 3000 or more is where we typically fly. My friend has convinced me that autopilot for single pilot IFR is critical; so I'm watching for that as well.

Do others of you find it easy to rent a Bonanza or other IFR cross country plane when you want to travel cross country? Perhaps I'm just missing that opportunity? There's a Cirrus shop that rents G7s at around 450 per hour with daily minimums; but that seems pretty expensive.
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Agreed, although there are a lot of good CC planes that are fine/fun/easy for a local flight. If you own a plane, you should fly it as much as possible, both for currency and because the huge majority of costs are fixed (hangar, insurance, maintenance). I'd never go rent a flight school 172 to take a friend sightseeing, I'd just take the Bonanza and buy myself gas.

If you buy a jet or a pressurized twin, then, yes, you might want access to another plane for fun flights, but most single engine piston "traveling" airplanes are also good for getting lunch 20 minutes away (182, Bonanza, Mooneys, etc).
 
schmookeeg said:
I have a friend who keeps a nice P35 Bonanza at Caldwell if you want me to try to connect a ride. That'll end this experimental conversation pretty quickly :D
Click to expand...
Do you think he is open to adding a partner?
 
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