First ramp check

Wow. I have been flying since the mid 1960's and I have NEVER been ramp checked.
Should I be upset that the FAA doesn't love me, or afraid there is a ticking bomb with my name on it?

;):oops:;):oops:
 
Shepherd said:
Wow. I have been flying since the mid 1960's and I have NEVER been ramp checked.
Should I be upset that the FAA doesn't love me, or afraid there is a ticking bomb with my name on it?

;):oops:;):oops:
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Although it could happen under Part 91, have you flown Part 135 and/or 121? Ramp checks are more common there.
 
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Vance Breese said:
I find filling out the log book is a cathartic part of my aviation afterglow and I do it as soon as I have completed the after flight check list.

I use my logbook as a reference for my clients to fill out their log books before I add my notes and sign it.

Managing scraps of paper in an open aircraft can be challenging for me.

My Garmin 196 keeps a nice flight log so I suspect it is not necessary to keep a paper log book as I am not working on any additional ratings or applying for a job. It does not have a place for notes that I know of.

Every interaction I have had with the FAA has had either no impact of a positive effect on my flying.

Perhaps as my experience grows I will develop a more adversarial relationship with the FAA.

I find joy in looking through my old log books and recalling the flights.
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Not a bad relationship with the FAA, actually most every interaction has been great, however I know who they are and what they can do, and I don't let my guard down.

I like bears too, but you won't see me turn my back to one.
 
Shepherd said:
Should I be upset that the FAA doesn't love me, or afraid there is a ticking bomb with my name on it?
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Whoo boy, I hear they are compiling a list of "Have Avoided Ramp Checks for Eons" and the hammer is going to drop on you boys. It will be the ramp check from hell. I mean. A detailed and lengthy grilling under hot spotlights. It will involve a gloved finger and more!
 
mscard88 said:
Although it could happen under Part 91, have you flown Part 135 and/or 121? Ramp checks are more common there.
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Many, many years ago, when I first got out of the Air Force.
I quit the business because I didn't like the idea up uprooting my family to meet someone else's expectations.
Science didn't pay as much, but I got to sleep in my own bed most of the time. :D
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Whoo boy, I hear they are compiling a list of "Have Avoided Ramp Checks for Eons" and the hammer is going to drop on you boys. It will be the ramp check from hell. I mean. A detailed and lengthy grilling under hot spotlights. It will involve a gloved finger and more!
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I'll carry some KY, just in case.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Whoo boy, I hear they are compiling a list of "Have Avoided Ramp Checks for Eons" and the hammer is going to drop on you boys. It will be the ramp check from hell. I mean. A detailed and lengthy grilling under hot spotlights. It will involve a gloved fist and more!
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FTFY.
 
Ramp checked last summer at the glider club. We had just pulled out the 2-33 when I see a guy walking up with more badges around his neck than needed. I spotted right away, an FAA dude.

He introduced himself, showed his credentials. I introduced myself, presented my CFI and pilot cert and asked if he'd ever ramp checked a glider. No he had not, well not much to see. My student was there so I took over. Took the opportunity to explain to my student what a ramp check was and then went over the aircraft with the inspector.

Airworthy cert? Right there behind that plastic, I'll need to go get a screw driver to open it up. No need.
Manuals? Weight and balance? No manuals in the glider, not required by the TCDS and the POH. It's all back in the club hose. Everything is on placards, here is the weight data, here are the speed limitations. Here is the pre takeoff checklist. That's it.

He was happy chatted with a couple of pilots but did not check for certs or check their gliders. Then a helicopter landed and off he went. As he left he said he was looking for the commercial glider operator on the field. Well, good luck with that, his customers can't find him most of the time.
 
Cajun_Flyer said:
Same here. I keep mine on me. I back it up electronically and have all the pages from my student days photocopied for nostalgia, so if something were to happen to it, I still have what I want and need.
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I hardly ever fly with log books, they stay at home. If I need them for instructor endorsement, they stay in my truck until post flight, then I go get them. I have spreadsheet and LogBook Pro backup on the computer with archived files.
 
BillTIZ said:
I hardly ever fly with log books, they stay at home. If I need them for instructor endorsement, they stay in my truck until post flight, then I go get them. I have spreadsheet and LogBook Pro backup on the computer with archived files.
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Indeed. After my private, logbook stayed at home.
 
Never been ramped as a private pilot......but had the privilege as an OPS agent for major airline to see many Captains and FO's sweat out ramp checks. We were blessed to have an inspector we eventually named "Dr. Drip" come by our field several times a year. Dr. Drip was a former mechanic who got fired when his airline was dissolved into another. So he was bitter and he took it out on every airline he came in contact with. You could figure on a delay whenever he showed. I would walk with him as he gave our planes the evil eye, so I could get a jump on fixing or explaining whatever he came up with. A loose screw, an engine with a few too many drips, a tire with low pressure.......all fair game for the Drip.....eventually he got more sophisticated and went for the O2 bottles in the doors that fired the slides out......if they were not in the green you better start calling to find one somewhere. You can all relax as he is long gone, and in fact eventually one of our maintenance managers got him pulled off the ramp but he spread a lot of joy all those years he was around.
 
Shepherd said:
Wow. I have been flying since the mid 1960's and I have NEVER been ramp checked. Should I be upset that the FAA doesn't love me, or afraid there is a ticking bomb with my name on it?;):oops:;):oops:
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No worries ... the new FAA plan is to get one or two major ramp inspections and get it all out of the way in one shot or two shots ... which will occur at 2017 Sun-N-Fun and Oshkosh:confused:
 
I have found that the more I can get the fed to talk about his experiences the less the ramp check is if even at all, except checking the certificate and medical.
 
back about 1999 I stopped at Friday Harbor for a pi$$ stop, and found my PMI setting in the lounge. I asked what was going on jokingly, he replied he was waiting on a ride home, but they had canceled the last flight for the day. I told him to jump in the 170. After we cleared Cattle pass in bound OKH I asked where his car was. He said Boeing field. I then asked Whidbey Approach for a hand off to center and took him to Boeing field, as he jumped out he asked if he could buy me some gas, I simply said "you know better than that," "He said thanks for the ride. When I got back to Oak Harbor and gassed up. Harbor Air attendant told me there was a $100 credit on my account. I never did find out who put it there :)
 
Vf6cruiser said:
Never been ramped as a private pilot......but had the privilege as an OPS agent for major airline to see many Captains and FO's sweat out ramp checks. We were blessed to have an inspector we eventually named "Dr. Drip" come by our field several times a year. Dr. Drip was a former mechanic who got fired when his airline was dissolved into another. So he was bitter and he took it out on every airline he came in contact with. You could figure on a delay whenever he showed. I would walk with him as he gave our planes the evil eye, so I could get a jump on fixing or explaining whatever he came up with. A loose screw, an engine with a few too many drips, a tire with low pressure.......all fair game for the Drip.....eventually he got more sophisticated and went for the O2 bottles in the doors that fired the slides out......if they were not in the green you better start calling to find one somewhere. You can all relax as he is long gone, and in fact eventually one of our maintenance managers got him pulled off the ramp but he spread a lot of joy all those years he was around.
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This post is full of so much BS that I do not know where to start. But...
1. Captains do not sweat a ramp check. Very few FOs do either. They know what to do and how to work with the FAA. That's why they make the big bucks.
2. Being let go when an airline gets dissolved into another is not usually considered being fired. Yes, the result is the same but being fired is normally being let go for cause not due to downsizing due to a merger or acquisition. That is referred to by terms such as downsized, furloughed, laid off, etc.
3. ASIs are very cautious not to cause delays unless absolutely necessary, i.e. "safety of flight" type issues.
4. As an ops agent, you would not be getting the jump on fixing issues, that would be the job of maintenance. If there was an ASI ramping the aircraft, a mech would be out there quick to answer questions and solve any problems.
5. The inspector would have no idea if the tire pressure was low or not. They do not walk around with a pressure gage checking tires.
6. An engine with too many drips? If an engine is dripping oil or fuel, it would have already documented by maintenance or the crew and either repaired or documented as within limits per the AMM. This would be quickly shown to the inspector and put to rest without any delay.
7. A loose screw? The line mech would quickly pull his screwdriver out and tighten it up. No delay.
8. O2 bottles to fire the slides?! LOL. Wow! How about N2? Seriously, you have no clue.
 
While I never sweated a ramp check (no need to), I have been delayed by ASIs. I think what the ops agent meant was if they saw something amiss they'd be proactive and call maintenance. At the airline I flew at, ramp agents would let the crew know about something, or if we weren't there they'd call maintenance. This was a company program which I didn't care for because every little scratch/dent, whatever, we'd then have to check the mtc log or usually have to contact mtc to ensure they had it logged, which could and did delay a flight if they didn't and have to come out to check it. At an outstation it could be even worse, as we had contract mtc at many outstations and sometimes it took an hour or more for them to come out from home. If it was normal 8-5 hours, they'd be on the airport at work and usually would show up quickly.
 
In Alaska, I had a fed come up to me and said the elevator trim tab is out of tolerance. Navajo Chieftain. I asked him to show me what he meant. He took the trim tab and wiggled it slightly and said it is out of tolerance.

I asked him what is the tolerance limits and how did you measure it? His face turned redder, and he yelled at the top of his voice, "FIX IT..!!!" and stormed away.

That plane missed 2.5 days of revenue only to find out there is no tolerance limits on the trim tab. This guy not only hated his job, he had no idea what his job was all about and that was not the only way he showed it.
 
Vance Breese said:
I was ramp checked by two inspectors at Camarillo in my experimental gyroplane. It was so windy I had to have them help me secure the aircraft. 27kts gusting to 39kts as I recall.
I was ramp checked once at Santa Paula by a lone inspector.
Airworthiness, registration, operating limitations, weight and balance, pilot certificate, medical and pilot log book with flight review.
Everything was in order and it was a nonevent taking about 45 minutes both times.
The inspectors were all pleasant.
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Are you required to travel with a log book?
 
Mine was at 65 TT. Honestly, the guy was pretty cool. We chatted about airplanes mostly. The airworthiness very was torn on the club plane I was flying. He said "I could make a big deal about this, but I won't. Just tell the club officers when you get back to fix it"
 
danhagan said:
No worries ... the new FAA plan is to get one or two major ramp inspections and get it all out of the way in one shot or two shots ... which will occur at 2017 Sun-N-Fun and Oshkosh:confused:
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If an FAA guy was ever going to mysteriously disappear while doing a ramp check, this is when it would happen. ;)
 
Vf6cruiser said:
Never been ramped as a private pilot......but had the privilege as an OPS agent for major airline to see many Captains and FO's sweat out ramp checks. We were blessed to have an inspector we eventually named "Dr. Drip" come by our field several times a year. Dr. Drip was a former mechanic who got fired when his airline was dissolved into another. So he was bitter and he took it out on every airline he came in contact with. You could figure on a delay whenever he showed. I would walk with him as he gave our planes the evil eye, so I could get a jump on fixing or explaining whatever he came up with. A loose screw, an engine with a few too many drips, a tire with low pressure.......all fair game for the Drip.....eventually he got more sophisticated and went for the O2 bottles in the doors that fired the slides out......if they were not in the green you better start calling to find one somewhere. You can all relax as he is long gone, and in fact eventually one of our maintenance managers got him pulled off the ramp but he spread a lot of joy all those years he was around.
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In the GA world, the ramp check cannot delay you from departure or leaving the airport post flight for a meeting.
 
I'm certainly glad we have Skydog58 here as the ultimate authority on ramp operations.......LOL
 
So Skydog58........your statement #8......... 8. O2 bottles to fire the slides?! LOL. Wow! How about N2? Seriously, you have no clue.

We'll see who has no clue......I can shoot down your other 7 points as well but won't waste my time

From LUFTHANSA TEKNIK

Depending on their content and operating pressure, the cylinders are constructed from steel, aluminum or titanium. The OXYGEN and carbonic acid mixture used for the emergency CHUTES is under a pressure of over 200 bar, the oxygen cylinders are pressurized to 120 bar, and the quenching gas in fire extinguishers is maintained at a pressure of between 20 and 60 bar. This permanent pressure loading weakens the material. Hence the condition of the compressed gas cylinder material is checked at predetermined intervals of between three and 14 years in the "hydrostatic test".
 
Got checked by a couple local deputy constables outside of Dallas last year. They were parked on the ramp and would drive up to the club planes as people came in handed the keys to another member to take the plane. I was there to be a safety pilot for another guy. These deputies had just finished asking a guy for his certificate, and let him slide even though he had nothing but a drivers license with him. He had left everything at home. No matter - the deputies didn't seem to care.

It became clear the deputies had no clue what they were looking for when one said the other was a pilot, but the other had no idea what a registration or POH was. I asked what agency sent them out there. The first answer was "Customs because there is no Customs office on this field." When I told him exactly where the Customs office was, he told me it was actually TSA and the FAA that sent them. I called the constable's office the next day and was told the uniforms I described were from a different precinct and that those guys were outside their jurisdiction at the airport. When I called the airport manager, he told me it was all top secret and I was not important enough to know about it. Lesson learned: next time I'll ask what crime they suspected me of committing and ask for their ramp badges before calling the actual police.

Knock on wood - never had an actual FAA inspector check me.
 
Vf6cruiser said:
So Skydog58........your statement #8......... 8. O2 bottles to fire the slides?! LOL. Wow! How about N2? Seriously, you have no clue.

We'll see who has no clue......I can shoot down your other 7 points as well but won't waste my time

From LUFTHANSA TEKNIK

Depending on their content and operating pressure, the cylinders are constructed from steel, aluminum or titanium. The OXYGEN and carbonic acid mixture used for the emergency CHUTES is under a pressure of over 200 bar, the oxygen cylinders are pressurized to 120 bar, and the quenching gas in fire extinguishers is maintained at a pressure of between 20 and 60 bar. This permanent pressure loading weakens the material. Hence the condition of the compressed gas cylinder material is checked at predetermined intervals of between three and 14 years in the "hydrostatic test".
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In SkyDog's defense, there is usually zero information in the aircraft maintenance manuals pertaining to slide packs, other than removal and replacement, as the slide packs are not normally serviced, in service. Door actuation bottles are another story, they are serviced with N2.

From here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evacuation_slide

"Both slides and slide/rafts use a non-explosive, inert gas inflation systems. The FAA requires evacuation of the entire aircraft in 90 seconds using 50% of the available evacuation exits. To meet this, all evacuation units need to deploy in less than 10 seconds. For large, wide body aircraft such as A380s and B747s a successful deployment is complete in about 5–7 seconds, depending on conditions (such as temperature and winds).

The inflation system usually consists of a pressurized cylinder, a regulating valve, two high pressure hoses and two aspirators. The cylinder can be from 100 to about 1000 cubic inches, filled to about 3000 psi with either gaseous Nitrogen, or a mixture of gaseous CO2 and Nitrogen. Once made of steel, most cylinders now are made of aluminum or alloy cores wrapped with fiberglass, or other lightweight, fuel saving materials. The CO2 is used to slow down the rate at which the valve expends the gases."

I suspect LUFTHANSA TEKNIK is in error.
 
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I see your "LUFTHANSA TEKNIK" and raise you one.

http://www.lufthansa-technik.com/emergency-escape-slides

"Emergency escape slides are inflated by gas bottles, which are also thoroughly checked. Gas is stored in the bottles at pressures of about 200 bar. The gas is a fire-retardant mixture of nitrogen and carbon dioxide discharged from the bottle through a constant-pressure valve."
 
Mason said:
Oxygen is not a flammable gas. It is an oxydizer.
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Technically speaking, sure. But practically speaking (which is what counts when your plane has just crashed) oxygen promotes fire and flames. Ask the Apollo One astronauts what caused those flames.
 
RotorDude said:
Technically speaking, sure.
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Technically is how I was speaking.

When you are shipping and labeling O2 you do not apply a flammable gas label to it, you put on oxydizer label on it and a compressed gas label on it and based on your training you know to not load it with flammables.

Ignition requires three things: Oxygen, a source of ignition, and something else to be ignited. Apply heat to pure oxygen all by itself and nothing happens. Having said that, of course it is dangerous, because it can be close to impossible to keep it separated from real flammable materials.

 
Mason said:
Technically is how I was speaking.

When you are shipping and labeling O2 you do not apply a flammable gas label to it, you put on oxydizer label on it and a compressed gas label on it and based on your training you know to not load it with flammables.

Ignition requires three things: Oxygen, a source of ignition, and something else to be ignited. Apply heat to pure oxygen all by itself and nothing happens. Having said that, of course it is dangerous, because it can be close to impossible to keep it separated from real flammable materials.
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I think it's a question of semantics. Your implicit definition is wrong, since "apply heat to pure oxygen all by itself and nothing happens" means that gasoline is not flammable. So what does the word "flammable" actually mean? In common everyday use, it means "promotes flames", which pure oxygen does.

BTW, this semantics issue reminds me of an incident that happened in my high school chemistry class long ago. We were supposed to analyze some chemical powder (don't recall which exactly), and one of the students (my friend, as it happened) ended up starting a fire which almost burned down the classroom!
As it turned out, the package we each received had a very prominent label on it stating in big bold letters: HIGHLY INFLAMMABLE. My friend, who was a recent immigrant, had a very curious mind, and later told us he simply could not believe that this stuff would be so IN FLAMMABLE. So he put his Bunsen burner on it to try to prove them wrong...
 
LOL........well a wonderful education on flammables and door bottles.........
 
Actually, the high oxygen concentration and the grease that was known to have been in the cargo compartment is all that was needed to create a fire.
 
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