First flight after annual

What has caught me by surprise before is trim changed far from where I left it. Silly of me I guess to expect things to be left as I set them.
I know of another guy who got his 182 back from annual and his trim was backwards.
 
FORANE said:
What has caught me by surprise before is trim changed far from where I left it. Silly of me I guess to expect things to be left as I set them.
Click to expand...

I guess the mech should not clean and inspect the cables and pulleys.

Then tell us how well you use a check list?
 
James331 said:
I'd just do a good run up, then full power run up, then shutdown check for leaks or anything odd, then go for it, keep it over the airport for a bit.

The high speed ground run isn't going to show too much aside from the fact that planes make crappy sports cars, I ether like to taxi, or takeoff, hauling butt on the ground not so much.
Click to expand...

High speed runs easily lead to flying and go, those that try not to go land long and may go off the end.

Check the TCDS for static rpm range. Get a clear area on the ramp, tie it down if you are not comfortable with it. After a quick startup, oil pressure check, shut it down and check for leaks. Then start it up and complete the static power check before taking it airborne.

And yes, a most through preflight, the most scrutiny you can imagine. Every safety wire inside and outside the engine cowl, every nut you can see, locking key required or not.

You would be surprised and the tools I have found after an annual, and where you find them. Would you like to go flying with the spark plug torque wrench lying on top of the cylinders? A screw driver where it could jam the elevator? Rudder return springs mounted wrong so the actually bind and rub on the fuselage tubes?

Oh, and be sure to check the oil. I was once told it was ready for a leak check. Well, it would not have leaked because there was no oil on the dip stick!
 
Tom-D said:
Which is required to be accomplished by the A&P-IA prior to signing off the annual. So why would you?
Click to expand...

I've had IAs leave that to me for my final inspection when I pick up the aircraft.
They are there to watch for anomalies from outside the aircraft.

I've also had IAs that say, you're good to go, we'll get the logbooks tomorrow. Trying to get back to home airport before dark, that's ok, we'll do the logbooks tonight. I can ferry the airplane tomorrow.
 
N801BH said:
99% of the A&P/ IA mechanics will NOT fly in a plane they just worked on....

Just another reason I sold all my certified planes and built an experimental...:rolleyes:

Also.. circling above the airport is not a bad idea either... I spent 80 or so hours orbiting above the Jackson Hole airport... 3000agl got me above the Delta airspace and unless they started launching rockets... I was not in any ones way... Tower was more then happy to help me out..

Another reason was if I had a major failure, the wreckage would fall inside the airport fence line... My usual joke to the local fire/rescue guys here was. " if you have to cut me out of the wreckage with the jaws of life, make damn sure you don't scratch the paint job"..:lol:.....:rofl:....:eek:.

Geico had a great point too... Always do a 180 /360 when at the run up area and look for liquids..:thumbsup:
Click to expand...

The shop I worked at for two years had mx guys up all the time in customer planes before and after mx as passengers. There were however a few customers that never had the chance to fly the mechanics......the mx guys didn't trust the pilot.
 
BillTIZ said:
I've had IAs leave that to me for my final inspection when I pick up the aircraft.
They are there to watch for anomalies from outside the aircraft.

Not legal,, read FAR 43.15 how can they comply with that out side the aircraft?

I've also had IAs that say, you're good to go, we'll get the logbooks tomorrow. Trying to get back to home airport before dark, that's ok, we'll do the logbooks tonight. I can ferry the airplane tomorrow.
Click to expand...

Did they also tell you that if you crash they will throw the logs on the fire ?
 
BillTIZ said:
You would be surprised and the tools I have found after an annual, and where you find them.

That's just dumber than all get out, tools are expensive, If the A&P is not tracking the control of their tools then they are not doing a food job of any thing.


Oh, and be sure to check the oil. I was once told it was ready for a leak check. Well, it would not have leaked because there was no oil on the dip stick!
Click to expand...

Not making excuses for the mechanic, but hopefully you will catch that prior to doing damage.

If not on preflight, then on start, no oil pressure within 30 seconds, and all that stuff. :)
 
James331 said:
... The high speed ground run isn't going to show too much aside from the fact that planes make crappy sports cars, I ether like to taxi, or takeoff, hauling butt on the ground not so much.
Click to expand...

Ha, ha absolutely. The "high speed ground run" is an idea that says "Let's try to crash it before it ever gets off the ground" :rolleyes:
 
Tom-D said:
I guess the mech should not clean and inspect the cables and pulleys.

Then tell us how well you use a check list?
Click to expand...
Tom

Cleaning and inspecting cables and pulleys does not preclude one from checking the trim position prior to moving it and returning it to where it was before manipulating it. To me, this is the difference between just getting a job done and doing it with care conscientiously. Of course this was the same shop that left my master switch on the last (and final) time they worked on it which resulted in my having a dead battery when I needed the plane.

You are right, I should have looked closer also, but when I never use elevator trim in my plane and I am its only pilot so it is easy to overlook.
 
Well if his plane is a 150 and he never leaves the pattern, you kinda never need to touch it. lol
 
Pedals2Paddles said:
Well if his plane is a 150 and he never leaves the pattern, you kinda never need to touch it. lol
Click to expand...

Maybe.

But my Sky Arrow has an intermittent electric trim problem, and I find it infuriating to have to fly holding constant control pressure either way. Doing anything requiring two hands is all but impossible.

I guess pitch trim is such an essential item for me, I have trouble visualizing why one would voluntarily do without it.
 
Pedals2Paddles said:
Well if his plane is a 150 and he never leaves the pattern, you kinda never need to touch it. lol
Click to expand...

Yeah... But.... He might use the flaps on landing and maybe on take off too... He will need to make a trim change for that.. IMHO.
 
In our departed 150, setting the trim indicator on the K was the sweet spot, fly-o-matic and land-o-matic. Literally, you didn't need to touch it. Takeoff and climb out at 75mph. 80mph on downwind. Flaps 10, 75mph abeam. Flaps 20 and 70mph on base. Flaps 30 and 62 on final. No trim change needed. I think it worked out for a no flap landing at 72 mph as well.
 
Pedals2Paddles said:
In our departed 150, setting the trim indicator on the K was the sweet spot, fly-o-matic and land-o-matic. Literally, you didn't need to touch it. Takeoff and climb out at 75mph. 80mph on downwind. Flaps 10, 75mph abeam. Flaps 20 and 70mph on base. Flaps 30 and 62 on final. No trim change needed. I think it worked out for a no flap landing at 72 mph as well.
Click to expand...

Hard to believe you didn't need nose up trim...:confused:
 
Ya. I certainly wasn't complaining though. She was great for solo flight. Not practical for our training or use afterwards due to size and useful load. But man was it easy to fly. In the pattern, the trim was literally set-and-forget on the K. In cruise, it didn't make much adjustment either. The 172 we're transitioning to is not quite so simple.
 
It does seem strange that one would never use the elevator trim in a plane. The plane I am referring to is my Lancair 235/320. The pitch is extremely sensitive with very light stick forces required. I typically have the pitch trim set for cruise and leave it there. That setting works quite well for takeoff, climb, and cruise. The only time I might consider using it otherwise is in the pattern after extending flaps. With flaps down I have to increase back pressure on the stick somewhat but it is still very little relative to anything else I have flown.
The trim on my plane is right on the stick - electric trim for roll and pitch. Quite easy to adjust. The roll trim is used on most every flight. The pitch trim really is not necessary due to the light stick force in pitch.
 
FORANE said:
It does seem strange that one would never use the elevator trim in a plane. The plane I am referring to is my Lancair 235/320. The pitch is extremely sensitive with very light stick forces required. I typically have the pitch trim set for cruise and leave it there. That setting works quite well for takeoff, climb, and cruise. The only time I might consider using it otherwise is in the pattern after extending flaps. With flaps down I have to increase back pressure on the stick somewhat but it is still very little relative to anything else I have flown.
The trim on my plane is right on the stick - electric trim for roll and pitch. Quite easy to adjust. The roll trim is used on most every flight. The pitch trim really is not necessary due to the light stick force in pitch.
Click to expand...

My experimental is just the opposite.. It has full span flaperons.. You put in full flaps and it will yank the stick right out of your hand...
 
Vance Breese said:
I read the latest NTSB reports as part of my preflight so that I don’t become complacent and can recognize the beginning of an accident chain.
Click to expand...
Very interesting ritual. I don't read them as often as I used to, but I plan to return to reading them on a regular schedule.
 
Silvaire said:
Ha, ha absolutely. The "high speed ground run" is an idea that says "Let's try to crash it before it ever gets off the ground" :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

There was an episode of JAG where the maintenance guy took off in a jet doing high-speed runs. Unfortunately, his C/O didn't believe the accidental takeoff story (it wasn't). He was acquitted of charges (it's T.V., whaddya expect).
 
Tom-D said:
Not making excuses for the mechanic, but hopefully you will catch that prior to doing damage.

If not on preflight, then on start, no oil pressure within 30 seconds, and all that stuff. :)
Click to expand...

Roger on the oil pressure check, first place I always look after engine start.

Do you have a specific reference to the IA engine run in 43.15? It's a bigg book.
 
BillTIZ said:
Roger on the oil pressure check, first place I always look after engine start.

Do you have a specific reference to the IA engine run in 43.15? It's a bigg book.
Click to expand...
43 appendix D b(2) Systems and components—for improper installation, apparent defects, and unsatisfactory operation.

http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-id...816dc331fd4c0c5&node=ap14.1.43_117.d&rgn=div9

and 43.15 c
(2) Each person approving a reciprocating-engine-powered aircraft for return to service after an annual or 100-hour inspection shall, before that approval, run the aircraft engine or engines to determine satisfactory performance in accordance with the manufacturer's recommendations of—
(i) Power output (static and idle r.p.m.);
(ii) Magnetos;
(iii) Fuel and oil pressure; and
(iv) Cylinder and oil temperature.
 
Last edited:
FastEddieB said:
Cries out for an explanation?
Click to expand...

Piper Pawnee, trim set for full power climb at 60KIAS with a glider in tow.
At release altitude, staged power reductions and descent back to landing, normally initially at 80KIAS +. Just hold the stick forward for a couple minutes during descent, on final and back to 60knts and very reduced power trim never changed from takeoff, and it's what is needed for landing.

No need to keep ratcheting the trim wheel for 20 flights a day. Set it an leave it alone.
 
FORANE said:
Tom

Cleaning and inspecting cables and pulleys does not preclude one from checking the trim position prior to moving it and returning it to where it was before manipulating it. To me, this is the difference between just getting a job done and doing it with care conscientiously. Of course this was the same shop that left my master switch on the last (and final) time they worked on it which resulted in my having a dead battery when I needed the plane.

You are right, I should have looked closer also, but when I never use elevator trim in my plane and I am its only pilot so it is easy to overlook.
Click to expand...

That is a little picky to think they should note all of your settings and reset them. Do you complain when your car is worked on and they don't put your seat back where you had it set? I wish I had your problems since something so minor was noteworthy enough to mention.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
43 appendix D b(2) Systems and components—for improper installation, apparent defects, and unsatisfactory operation.
Click to expand...

Does that require me to insure every radio is functional prior to an airworthy sign off?
 
All,

First flight went fine. Couple rounds of the pattern, landed, checked for stuff. Thenback up for a longer flight with the mechanic. Only thing is a bad CHT probe on the new engine analyzer. Otherwise, a nice PA-28-161

Thanks
 
I always go solo after work on the airplane. I wouldn't want my mechanic or anyone else with me. I second the thorough preflight but agree not to try to drive down the runway. Just check rpm and airspeed early in the takeoff run then stay in the pattern a few rounds until you KNOW everything is working as it should.
 
How many pilots here would take an aircraft with less than 10 hours since a total restoration, including a major engine rebuild plus a fresh annual and head right out over the high mountains with it. ?
 
I don't think I would, Tom, unless I was the mechanic (like you are) and knew there were no missing bolts/screws or extra wrenches in places they might cause problems. :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top