Fidel Castro is Dead

[nauga]

And I needed a new sofa bed...

Perhaps a convertible?

Nauga,
and minutae

 

[paflyer]

And I needed a new sofa bed...

Obscure reference. I like it.

 

[Getonit]

Keeping Gitmo open was stupid. Roosey Roads (Puerto Rico) was by far, a larger, and much more capable base, and it wasn't split in two halves requiring a boat trip to get from one side to the other (you can't drive from one peninsula to the other on Gitmo) yet they closed it down instead. Strategically, they are practically in the same place.

My understanding of keeping Gitmo was there is a legal loophole for us to keep prisoners there. It isn't US territory, therefore we can take some,liberties with habeus corpus and all of that other civil liberty and constitutional rights crap....

But I think we should have opened up trading with Cuba 20 years ago, as soon as we invade with McDonald's and KFC we win.

 

[Sac Arrow]

My understanding of keeping Gitmo was there is a legal loophole for us to keep prisoners there. It isn't US territory, therefore we can take some,liberties with habeus corpus and all of that other civil liberty and constitutional rights crap....

But I think we should have opened up trading with Cuba 20 years ago, as soon as we invade with McDonald's and KFC we win.

Under whose law? An American military installation IS American soil, just like American embassies are on foreign soil, and vice versa. The prisoners were sent to Gitmo to remain "out of sight and out of mind."

 

[Sac Arrow]

Gitmo was kept open for the political canard that it is in foreign land. PR is US soil. Rosie Roads was closed because the only reason the NAVY wanted to keep the place was for the Vieques range. When the local yokels got all up in arms about the use of Vieques for bombing practice, via the inflection point that was the death of the local contractor at the observation tower, the DOD acquiesced and the NAVY said screw it, we don't need the place then. The economic impact was felt immediately. It was a Pyrrhic victory for the local populace.

Vieques was certainly a matter of contention with the locals but it's role was fairly minor. Roosey Roads was the primary ship and naval air base in the South Atlantic, outside of CONUS.

 

[mscard88]

Gitmo was kept open for the political canard that it is in foreign land.

Gitmo is a thorn in Castro's and the Kremlin's side. 99 year contract I believe. Rosie Rds can still be used at any time (runways anyway). Don't remember if it was closed at the time but the US used it during the Grenada goatrope.

 

[GRG55]

Come on people. Don't you see opportunity when it knocks? Sure Castro was bad. But Cuba is ready to GO!!!

Wonder if they'll now be able to trade up to a new Impala?

 

[James331]

Wonder if they'll now be able to trade up to a new Impala?

Wouldn't that be trading down?

My understanding of keeping Gitmo was there is a legal loophole for us to keep prisoners there. It isn't US territory, therefore we can take some,liberties with habeus corpus and all of that other civil liberty and constitutional rights crap....

But I think we should have opened up trading with Cuba 20 years ago, as soon as we invade with McDonald's and KFC we win.

That was more a bush thing, obama just droned people to death, under the NDAA he got a few americans too.

 

[Norman]

Wonder if they'll now be able to trade up to a new Impala?

Yes they will, and their trade-ins will be worth a small fortune to collectors here in the states. Well, at least until the market gets saturated with 1952 Chevy Belairs.

 

[mscard88]

Yes they will, and their trade-ins will be worth a small fortune to collectors here in the states. Well, at least until the market gets saturated with 1952 Chevy Belairs.

Think it was somewhere I read that these cars are so patched up that they won't be worth what people think they will be. I believe the article went on to say that very few, if any, matching number cars and trucks. Amazing they've kept them running for 50+ years though.

 

[weilke]

The one looming question is, as we continue to normalize economic and diplomatic relations with Cuba, what is to become of "wet foot dry foot" policy? Lord knows it has been a sore spot for the other Latin American immigrant groups, Central Americans in particular...

It has been pointed out that many of the recent 'refugees' from Cuba return to the country on regular business trips the moment they attain US permanent resident status. The persecution can't be all that intense if you feel safe enough to return only a year or two after you 'fled'.
Even with the recent political developments I don't see anyone touching the Cuban adjustment act.

 

[Becky]

Think it was somewhere I read that these cars are so patched up that they won't be worth what people think they will be. I believe the article went on to say that very few, if any, matching number cars and trucks. Amazing they've kept them running for 50+ years though.

That is just what I thought about the planes on Ice Pilots, and they're approaching 70 years old.

 

[Mason]

Yes they will, and their trade-ins will be worth a small fortune to collectors here in the states. Well, at least until the market gets saturated with 1952 Chevy Belairs.

Most of them probably have non-standard/modified parts by this time and need a machine shop to keep them running.

 

[hindsight2020]

Vieques was certainly a matter of contention with the locals but it's role was fairly minor. Roosey Roads was the primary ship and naval air base in the South Atlantic, outside of CONUS.

I love it when mainlanders come revise me on what went down in my own yard. Brother, I was down there at the time. Come on down sometime, I'll give you the nickle tour of the place. It's not as if Adm Robert Natter, Commander Atlantic Fleet, United States Navy ,didn't state on record that without Vieques, Rosie Roads was a "drain on Defense department, and tax payer dollars".

More here
and here

It's not as if I wasn't there when the ****show really got going, while I was at the Coliseo Roberto Clemente during the Tournament of the Americas 1999 and the protesters came through the gates to crack skulls on TV. I called my father and told him to pick me up across the road by Plaza Las Américas because I had a god-damned Team USA T-shirt on and I knew I was gonna get a 2x4 to the head in short order if I didn't bail outta there. And I'm a native of Rio Piedras (annx. w/ San Juan 1951) mind you!

Your recollection of Rosie Road's strategic importance to the Navy circa the times in question is outdated I'm afraid. Post Cold War, Atlantic Fleet wanted Rosie for one thing and one thing only: Vieques. Exit vieques? Exit Navy. And that's exactly how it went down. DOD gave zero ****s about PR strategically beyond that post-1991.

 

[Cooter]

I love it when mainlanders come revise me on what went down in my own yard. Brother, I was down there at the time. Come on down sometime, I'll give you the nickle tour of the place. It's not as if Adm Robert Natter, Commander Atlantic Fleet, United States Navy ,didn't state on record that without Vieques, Rosie Roads was a "drain on Defense department, and tax payer dollars".

More here
and here

It's not as if I wasn't there when the ****show really got going, while I was at the Coliseo Roberto Clemente during the Tournament of the Americas 1999 and the protesters came through the gates to crack skulls on TV. I called my father and told him to pick me up across the road by Plaza Las Américas because I had a god-damned Team USA T-shirt on and I knew I was gonna get a 2x4 to the head in short order if I didn't bail outta there. And I'm a native of Rio Piedras (annx. w/ San Juan 1951) mind you!

Your recollection of Rosie Road's strategic importance to the Navy circa the times in question is outdated I'm afraid. Post Cold War, Atlantic Fleet wanted Rosie for one thing and one thing only: Vieques. Exit vieques? Exit Navy. And that's exactly how it went down. DOD gave zero ****s about PR strategically beyond that post-1991.

Yep. I spent some time down there when the locals were hopping the fence and fouling the range. The local population protested the presence of the US Navy, then cried when they pulled out and left took the commissary and local economy with them. Rosey Roads was not a friendly place for people like me. We essentially had to take refuge in the resorts and convoy to the base. Thats a bit of exaggeration, but not by much.

 

[mscard88]

That is just what I thought about the planes on Ice Pilots, and they're approaching 70 years old.

But those aren't thought of as collectables as some think these old cars are. BTW loved that show, wish they'd bring it back.

 

[Tom-D]

Fresh off the presses,, Trump is going to buy the whole island, spruce it up a bit and sell it to Canada for a resort.

 

[James331]

Fresh off the presses,, Trump is going to buy the whole island, spruce it up a bit and sell it to Canada for a resort.

Man, the whistling gopher.

Selling to Canadians is always fun

 

[mtuomi]

Castro was crap, but what Cuba had before under the (US supported) Batista regime was way, way, WAY worse.

 

[ARFlyer]

I have some friends in the SSS islands that are quite worried over Cuba. They are worried that when Cuba relations become normalized that tourism in the rest of the Greater & Lesser Antilles will dry up.

 

[cowman]

You gotta give him this much- how many dictators come to power relatively young and die of old age?

 

[PaulS]

You gotta give him this much- how many dictators come to power relatively young and die of old age?

Those who rule with an iron fist, imprison, torture and kill with impunity and turn their victims against each other. The most vile of the vile.

 

[GRG55]

Fresh off the presses,, Trump is going to buy the whole island, spruce it up a bit and sell it to Canada for a resort.

I thought Canadians were just going to move into coastal WA, OR and CA after all the distraught residents there vacated as they threatened to

Ya gotta admit, Cuba would be a more pleasant place to set up a tent city than the I5 corridor in central Seattle...

 

[James331]

Those who rule with an iron fist, imprison, torture and kill with impunity and turn their victims against each other. The most vile of the vile.

Uhhh they all do that, but most don't last log enough to be able to rent a car in the US, let alone nearly hit triple digits.

 

[cowman]

Those who rule with an iron fist, imprison, torture and kill with impunity and turn their victims against each other. The most vile of the vile.

Sure but that's all ancient history to me, man. It all happened decades before I was even born and with the amount of horror in the world now and historically it just doesn't have much of an emotional resonance with me.

 

[mscard88]

I thought Canadians were just going to move into coastal WA, OR and CA after all the distraught residents there vacated as they threatened to

QUOTE]

Well California is trying to become its own country. Some crazy petition or something I saw on the news last week.

 

[Tom-D]

I thought Canadians were just going to move into coastal WA, OR and CA after all the distraught residents there vacated as they threatened to

Ya gotta admit, Cuba would be a more pleasant place to set up a tent city than the I5 corridor in central Seattle...

Whidbey Island is the Canadian snow bird destination. See North Whidbey RV park reservations for proof.

 

[James331]

Sure but that's all ancient history to me, man. It all happened decades before I was even born and with the amount of horror in the world now and historically it just doesn't have much of an emotional resonance with me.

Seriously?

 

[cowman]

Seriously?

Seriously.

I'm no fan of communism or dictatorships and I know they're worth fighting against and why. But for me it's like still being mad at the Japanese for WWII... or the British for the revolutionary war or the war of 1812... or more aptly the Russians for the cold war. It's over now, this is a new generation. What's the point of holding the grudge?

 

[James331]

Seriously.

I'm no fan of communism or dictatorships and I know they're worth fighting against and why. But for me it's like still being mad at the Japanese for WWII... or the British for the revolutionary war or the war of 1812... or more aptly the Russians for the cold war. It's over now, this is a new generation. What's the point of holding the grudge?

Brother, it ain't about low level childish emotions, or political views, it about how they did what they did, about great men of power, to not study Castro, or have read Mein Kampf, read up on Rome, that's just ignoring too many very hard fought lessons.

 

[PaulS]

Seriously.

I'm no fan of communism or dictatorships and I know they're worth fighting against and why. But for me it's like still being mad at the Japanese for WWII... or the British for the revolutionary war or the war of 1812... or more aptly the Russians for the cold war. It's over now, this is a new generation. What's the point of holding the grudge?

They, Cubans, are still being repressed as we write, this isn't ancient history, it is happening now. They are still jumping in rickety rafts to get out of there.

http://www.breitbart.com/national-s...rricane-matthew-rustic-vessel-reach-honduras/

 

[Tom-D]

Seriously.

I'm no fan of communism or dictatorships and I know they're worth fighting against and why. But for me it's like still being mad at the Japanese for WWII... or the British for the revolutionary war or the war of 1812... or more aptly the Russians for the cold war. It's over now, this is a new generation. What's the point of holding the grudge?

Grudge ? ? no,, When we don't remember history we are doomed to repeat it.

 

[mscard88]

Cowman do you blame the Russians for the "new" Cold War going on now? Guess what "new generation", it's never over.

 

[Cooter]

Sure but that's all ancient history to me, man. It all happened decades before I was even born and with the amount of horror in the world now and historically it just doesn't have much of an emotional resonance with me.

Emotional resonance isn't as significant as understanding the nature of the evil that surrounds us. To ignore it is foolish. In the anomaly that is the West, we think somehow we are above the worlds problems and can casually and disinterestedly pronounce judgement on what transpires around the rest of the globe. To be ignorant of history is to be ignorant of what awaits us. We are not immune, and the success of the West was/is because of its ideology. Our dismissal and refusal to acknowledge that will be what sets the stage for our demise. And that is in fact well on its way. Communism and its horrors are being intentionally neglected in public schools. Ivy leave history majors have been found to be totally ignorant of the holocaust.

 

[GRG55]

Cowman do you blame the Russians for the "new" Cold War going on now? Guess what "new generation", it's never over.

The interesting part about said situation never being over is, as odious as some governments can be, the overwhelming majority of those people want the same things most of us want...to live with a degree of personal security and dignity, feed their families, and hope to see their kids succeed.

 

[Pilawt]

Grudge ? ? no,, When we don't remember history we are doomed to repeat it.

Human nature hasn't changed for thousands of years and it ain't gonna change any time soon, either.

 

[Tom-D]

Human nature hasn't changed for thousands of years and it ain't gonna change any time soon, either.

It might, If we keep dumbing down the populous. it may happen more often.

 

[35 AoA]

... or more aptly the Russians for the cold war. It's over now, this is a new generation. What's the point of holding the grudge?

Have you been tracking world events over the last 4-5 years? The 1990's were a great time of pretending that the global ideological struggle, and nuclear gamesmanship, between the West and the FSU were over. Unfortunately, many of those old hands remain, and given how poorly the last 20 years or so have gone for them, I think that original minority that yearns for the USSR is gaining popular traction.

I'm not old, but I was born during Reagan's first term in office, a pretty icy cold period of the cold war, prior to "glasnost" and "perestroika"……..we were pretty close a couple times during that period to ending the world. I have no desire to return to that state of life, but if you watch the rhetoric and military responses from the Russian Federation and the Kremlin, it is very similar. The real problem is that a lot of these provocative moves have nuclear implications once you follow the NATO treaty obligations to a logical conclusion. Putin knows this, and is ready to call our bluff. Eventually he will be wrong, and that is going to be a really hairy moment in history. I don't know when that will happen, but I'd argue we haven't been far from it in the last couple years, several times over.I was personally flying off an aircraft carrier in the Mediterranean when the annexation of Ukraine blew up. While I was luckily wrong, there were a lot of rumors that we would delay in the Med, forgo continuing to Afghanistan, and instead begin flying missions in support of whatever NATO deemed an appropriate military intervention. Had we done that, things would have become real dangerous, real fast. While I was of course ready to go bag a Flanker, I didn't have much hope that there would be anywhere to come home to afterwards.

 

[Mason]

 

[Perezhr]

Cuba is in many respects like Vietnam. They are socialist, they are not a democracy, but they are very much capitalistic. They have a very thriving, solid tourist economy, just not from US tourism. They have modern roads, modern cities, and modern cars. Sure, most of the country is poor, but that describes every other Caribbean nation. People seem to forget that the middle class doesn't exist in large quantity outside of the US, UK and Europe.

I haven't been there personally since I was a kid, but those that have traveled there recently report that Jamaica and the DR are both dumps compared to Cuba, and that's considering areas outside of the major cities. Take a look on Google Earth, you might be surprised.

Oh but you are so wrong! Unlike most countries in Latin America Cuba had a large middle class in the 50's. my parents were part of that middle class. Fidel did achieve one thing. He made every Cuban equal, that is, dirt poor! And the country that use to be the pearl of the Caribbean has deteriorated into a **** hole under Castro. The infrastructure has been decaying over 50 years. Transportation, buildings, even the so called universal health care system is a piece of crap. Sure everyone has free health care and as long as whatever ails you can be cured with an aspirin you will be alright, if not you better hope you have relatives in Miami that can send you what you need. It is a failed system that brings everyone down to the lowest common denominator. Venezuelans are now learning that lesson. With the help of the Cuban regime they have transformed a country with one of the largest oil reserves in the world to a starving nation. The death of Fidel is not going to magically transform Cuba, but he was a powerful symbol and his death brings hope to the Cuban people that the end of the nightmare is at least in sight.