Feeling dumb

Glen R

Glen R

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Oct 25, 2014
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162
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Huntington, NY
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Glen
I was taxiing out of my fbo and the run-up area is right outside their perimeter. I could see the run-up area backed up with flight school planes. I already had done mine at the fbo and figured those guys would all be sitting there for a while with their students. I taxied around them to get on the line for the runway and all hell broke loose about me cutting the line. I responded that I didn't need a run-up and thought they would all be there for a while so I pulled over into the available run-up area and said I would wait in sequence which I did. It is a towered field and ground control did give me clearance to taxi. How big of a dick move was this? I'm pretty upset over it.
 
If nobody called up for take off yet, it wasn't a dick move at all. ATC is first come, first served. But if some had already called tower saying they were ready and were told to hold short and then you came along...well that's a different story.

edit: next time, as you begin to pass all the run up guys, call the tower and say "N#### ready in sequence." If the tower clears you, you know you were the first to call. If they get all butt hurt again, screw 'em.
 
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I drive passed the run-up area all the time, usually telling tower I'm ready to depart as I roll by...

I never tell tower I'm ready to depart while sitting in the run-up area. If I'm on the run-up pad I taxi to the hold-short line or the end of the line of airplanes waiting to depart then call tower
 
Doesn't sound like a dick move at all - if someone was done with their runup I'd imagine they'd pull up to the hold short line. Otherwise, you snooze, you lose.
 
They were in the runup area, right? When they're finished they should move to the hold short line. If unable then they should call and let the tower sequence, imo. Next time tell the tower you're ready before you jump to conclusions, but you handled it well enough. No big deal.
 
If there were planes waiting for takeoff, tower would have already been told and you would have been told (by the tower) to wait your turn. The runup block doesn't give you any dibs. You're not 'waiting to take off" until you are ready to put the throttle to the firewall and go.
 
Yup, when you are done with the runup and ready to go, move to the threshold and call. They have to be a real dick to expect someone to wait behind them while they putz around with their run up. Ignore them.
 
Glen R said:
I was taxiing out of my fbo and the run-up area is right outside their perimeter. I could see the run-up area backed up with flight school planes. I already had done mine at the fbo and figured those guys would all be sitting there for a while with their students. I taxied around them to get on the line for the runway and all hell broke loose about me cutting the line. I responded that I didn't need a run-up and thought they would all be there for a while so I pulled over into the available run-up area and said I would wait in sequence which I did. It is a towered field and ground control did give me clearance to taxi. How big of a dick move was this? I'm pretty upset over it.
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You were not a dick in my opinion. I bet those instructors would have kept their mouths shut if you had been in a jet. They would have been getting a drippy wiener wishing they could fly an airplane that didn’t require a run up... but since you were burning 100LL they get all grumpy thunking you cut in line. Children... I hope it’s obvious I’m being just a little snarky but you don’t have anything to worry about. The controllers determine sequence. Not some snot nosed time builder sitting in the run up box.
 
heh heh....you said "drippy wiener."

However, to the OP, this will not be the last time you feel dumb about something. Just the other day I flew to a field I've been to at least 100 times and could not for the life of me get out the correct runway I had announced I was inbound to so I blurted out "five". A voice came back and said," ### airport doesn't have a runway five."

So I just passed it by and never said another word.
 
Timbeck2 said:
heh heh....you said "drippy wiener."

However, to the OP, this will not be the last time you feel dumb about something. Just the other day I flew to a field I've been to at least 100 times and could not for the life of me get out the correct runway I had announced I was inbound to so I blurted out "five". A voice came back and said," ### airport doesn't have a runway five."

So I just passed it by and never said another word.
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Lol. I gave up trying not to feel dumb a long time ago. In fact I have decided feeling dumb is a good thing for aviators. It means that I’m always evaluating my performance and finding ways to be better. Of course this can lead to high stress levels and not having fun so occasionally I have to make myself kick back and enjoy the ride. I’m pretty sure that every good pilot has some type of diagnosable mental disorder.
 
Like the others have said, ATC determines the sequence of departure. If they taxied you to the hold short line before the others, that's on ATC, not you. You were ready and they weren't. Even so, it's really nothing to get cheesed off over... it's an extra 30 sec off their watch to wait for you to depart.
 
Bill Jennings said:
If I was runup and ready to go I'd tell tower I was #1 ready for departure.
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yup. i always did my run up in a parking area near the fbo. instructor taught me that as a way to not hold up those lined up for departure and if something found to be wrong during the run up then you're where you need to be without having to taxi back on the runway.
 
Agree with others... you did nothing wrong. If you're not on the hold-short line, I'm going around you. Being in the run-up area means nothing to anyone.
 
Was it Tower that was chewing you out? Or were the other pilots were chewing you out on Tower frequency? If it was the latter, that was doubly unprofessional, Tower frequency is not for pilots to talk to each other. Same with Ground.

I once "cut" in front of a twin who had been sitting in the runup area for a while. I had requested Special VFR, which would've prevented anyone else from taking off for a while. Turns out the twin was IFR, was ready just a few seconds later, and the Tower wanted to get him out first. There wasn't room for me to turn around. So Tower said, "Enter the runway, taxi down to taxiway Bravo, exit on Bravo, and come back around to the hold short line again." So even then, the Tower was professional about it.
 
kath said:
Was it Tower that was chewing you out? Or were the other pilots were chewing you out on Tower frequency? If it was the latter, that was doubly unprofessional, Tower frequency is not for pilots to talk to each other. Same with Ground.

I once "cut" in front of a twin who had been sitting in the runup area for a while. I had requested Special VFR, which would've prevented anyone else from taking off for a while. Turns out the twin was IFR, was ready just a few seconds later, and the Tower wanted to get him out first. There wasn't room for me to turn around. So Tower said, "Enter the runway, taxi down to taxiway Bravo, exit on Bravo, and come back around to the hold short line again." So even then, the Tower was professional about it.
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Sorry to hijack this thread (I agree with the above sentiments regarding the OP)....

Why did you request special VFR instead of IFR in that situation?
 
Lowflynjack said:
Agree with others... you did nothing wrong. If you're not on the hold-short line, I'm going around you. Being in the run-up area means nothing to anyone.
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Same here, but reverse in winter. I may have completed MOST of the runup and am awaiting oil temps to reach the green and be sitting in the run-up area awhile. My hangar is CLOSE to the calm wind runway departure, so if it's cold out, it will take some time. One of my neighbors blasts hangar row instead, which I HATE!
 
kath said:
Was it Tower that was chewing you out? Or were the other pilots were chewing you out on Tower frequency? If it was the latter, that was doubly unprofessional, Tower frequency is not for pilots to talk to each other. Same with Ground.

I once "cut" in front of a twin who had been sitting in the runup area for a while. I had requested Special VFR, which would've prevented anyone else from taking off for a while. Turns out the twin was IFR, was ready just a few seconds later, and the Tower wanted to get him out first. There wasn't room for me to turn around. So Tower said, "Enter the runway, taxi down to taxiway Bravo, exit on Bravo, and come back around to the hold short line again." So even then, the Tower was professional about it.
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It was the other pilots. We were all on ground. At my field you do NOT contact tower until you're #1 or 2. It's very busy and they get ****ed. So we were all on ground. There were at least 4 planes waiting on the taxiway for the threshold. I think the planes in the run up apron were waiting there rather than back taxiing. That's my guess anyway and I've never been in that position before.
 
I think you did fine, but you can always call the tower's land line number and ask how they'd like to see such situations handled. Local practices can vary.

Don't ask the flight schools, they'll tell you they always have priority. :)
 
Plano Pilot said:
So nobody thinks it is a bad idea to do the runup on the ramp??
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I must say it raised my eyebrows, but I gave the OP the benefit of the doubt. I assume he was at a tie-down with the prop blast shaking only weeds behind.
 
I ran up in an area of the fbo where nothing is around. Between my hangar and the taxiway it’s wide open. Not an issue.
 
dtuuri said:
I must say it raised my eyebrows, but I gave the OP the benefit of the doubt. I assume he was at a tie-down with the prop blast shaking only weeds behind.
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Between my hangar and the taxiway it’s wide open. Nothing around. It’s not an issue.
 
Timbeck2 said:
So how do you determine who gets to contact the tower?
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You stay with ground and switch to tower when your #2 at the threshold. Guys who call tower when their number four or five and say they’re in sequence get a talking to.
 
They are all paying Hobbs time and need to learn the lesson.

You did nothing wrong.

I bet the CFIs building time did not hit the mic.
 
Never been to an airport where planes are calling up in sequence with 4 or 5 planes. My airport no one calls until they are number 1 at the hold short lines. And that is also how I learned and been doing it for 25 years.
 
I have called Tower to check in as #5 or 6 for takeoff at plenty of busy places, including commonly back in my training. Whenever you're ready, you get in line, and most places Tower is the one in control of the line.

I've even been at places where Tower looks at a line of planes waiting, knows who number 1, 2, and 3 are, and asks over the radio, "Who's number four?" and expects someone to pipe up.
 
The only thing that cheesy is if you had done your runup in a place that could blow on other aircraft or buildings. That's usually why runup blocks are created. Not saying there aren't safe places to do it, but be careful.
 
Glen R said:
You stay with ground and switch to tower when your #2 at the threshold. Guys who call tower when their number four or five and say they’re in sequence get a talking to.
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There’s a difference from between switching to tower and contacting tower. Are you sure they want you on ground when you’re in line at the runway?
 
I run into this scenario and I hate it every time.

I will call tower from a position that allows anyone else to exit the runup, and announce ready for departure. I have no way of knowing (since I've been on ground) who has already called tower and has not yet taxied out.

Often this means I will call tower like 3 or 4 plane-lengths from the hold line which is also not ideal, but I know I can rock up quickly if cleared across.

The pilots who grouched on ground, though -- A. You should not have heard them if you had switched to tower already (ie, once leaving ground freq, I don't monitor it, it's history), and B. They need to STFU and learn how the game is played.
 
TommyG said:
Never been to an airport where planes are calling up in sequence with 4 or 5 planes. My airport no one calls until they are number 1 at the hold short lines. And that is also how I learned and been doing it for 25 years.
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Not a great idea at a towered airport. I’ll notify tower from my runup position that I’m ready for departure. Otherwise you may interfere with a jet on an IFR clearance that has already been given the go-ahead. Bad form to block the runway. Tower will sequence you ... stay clear of the hold short line until notified that you are up. That’s my opinion.

Non-towered can be fun also. Last weekend I was the third into the runup area that holds three. A fourth was following me and did the runup on taxiway bravo. A fifth came up on taxiway alpha and stopped to do the runup there. While it was crowded we all cooperated and it was fine.
 
Plano Pilot said:
So nobody thinks it is a bad idea to do the runup on the ramp??
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Depends. It's SOP at some places, especially when their aren't better alternatives. "On the ramp" doesn't mean "at the tiedown, blasting everyone behind you." It means going to a spot where you won't affect others.
 
TommyG said:
Never been to an airport where planes are calling up in sequence with 4 or 5 planes. My airport no one calls until they are number 1 at the hold short lines. And that is also how I learned and been doing it for 25 years.
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I've been at a good number of towered airports with different procedures. At a select few, you don't contact Tower at all when ready. You tell Ground when your runup is complete (ramp or dedicated runup area) and they give you sequence instructions and when to monitor -not contact - Tower. At others, the hold short line is wide enough to accommodate multiple aircraft. One of my favorites is the Class C where you don't talk to Ground at all.

I pretty much agree with you about "#4 in sequence." Generally, sequence is for ATC, not us. But, with a single lane leading to the runway, I can certainly envision a situation in which letting ATC know you are the 4th in line might be helpful. I have heard ATC clear an airplane for takeoff and get, "um there's a Cherokee in front of me!" in response.
 
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