Feedback about being a pilot as a career

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Benny1718

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Benny1718
My son is a junior in high school and has been set on being a pilot since he could walk. He has all of the latest simulators and spends hours on them at a time. He is interested in attending a university here in Texas that offers a degree in aviation, including your flight training, and supposedly most of their graduates are placed as co-pilots with commercial carriers (small ones).

His mother and I have considerable concern about being a professional pilot. He really wants to have a family, etc., and I am just wondering how the lifestyle of a professional pilot meshes with being a family man, helping raise kids, being there for them when they need you, and so on. And are marriages often strained when dad is gone half the time?

I know my son is enamored with "flying", but it seems that there is a tremendous sacrifice to do it. I'm thinking "why don't you have a career or join your dad in business and buy your own plane some day and fly the darn thing as you please."

I'm not about to burst my son's bubble right now because being a pilot is his dream, but I'm just wondering about this as a profession - the pros and cons of it all.

Thank you.
 
Eh I don't think its a huge sacrifice as long as you don't marry a woman(or man) that can't handle a few days apart.
He could make it easy on himself live in base not pick up trips and be home more often than not, or he could be like my dad and commute halfway across the country and pick up every trip he can. Out of everything involved in aviation I'm not sure that home life would be something that would keep me away from the airlines.
He could always fly medevac stuff or try to get a corporate or 135 gig and have a more "normal" schedule.
 
Knowing a few airline guys, I can say the home life all depends on their seniority and airline. My old CFI who is now a 4 stripe with PSA has a schedule on average of four days on and four days off, flying roughly 70hrs a month. The two chief pilots at the school I trained at, are major airline pilots flying the 777 at Delta and the other flies the MD-11 with UPS. They're schedules are much more desirable as they are home more than they fly. The UPS pilot is gone 10-12 days out of the month.

Starting out with being a FO at a regional airline, his schedule will be choppy, he may sit on reserve for a little while and be home for good lengths and other times he might be gone more than he's home. As he gains seniority (climbs the ladder) he can pick and choose his schedule a bit better. You can absolutely have a family and still fly. It's not the same as a 9-5 job, don't get me wrong, but you can still have a family. All three of the airline guys I know have long lasting marriages with several kids. Another track he should consider is corporate aviation, which depending on who you fly for, may allow for one to be home nearly every night. Just an idea.

Last thing you need to do is discourage your son. It's fantastic that he knows what he wants with his life at such a young age. Flying not only teaches an individual to fly an aircraft but it builds their character outside of the cockpit. For me personally, I desired the airline gig for awhile and sometimes still do, but decided to lean toward the degree that can help me afford my hobby and fly for the fun of it. Good luck to him, and I wish him the best!
 
Flying is great. Pilot shortage is real. But always have a backup. One injury, accident, stupid action and the flying career is over. Watch your health, don't use earbuds, always wear safety glasses.

And get him flying as early as possible.
 
The schedule and lifestyle sucks in the beginning. So if can can get started young and build time to get hired by 25. When his hits 30 or so he can have some stability. Then when he moves to a major airline he will get a rough schedule and have to make sacrafises for a few years. But it will settle down again. I have freinds that they have schedule they want for thier lifestyle. Some want schedules to make more money, some have schedules to be home more.
 
I would encourage your son to get a degree that's NOT aviation. I suggest Business or Management. That way if something happens where he can't fly, he can still have something to fall back on. Ratings can be obtained anywhere. There are lots of pilot mills out there offering direct links to an airlines.

Personally, I suggest starting at a local FBO now. Start with a few lessons on the weekends. When Spring Break comes along, schedule more lessons. Try to finish up the private ticket during the summer. For his senior year, he can start working on his instrument rating and hopefully complete that by the next summer and maybe even his commercial ticket. During the summer between graduation and college, have him finish up his commercial and work on getting his certified flight instructor certificate. It's a lot of work for a high school student, but it can be done. Getting a multi engine rating would be a plus, but not necessary at this point.

If he gets at least a CFI before going to college, he can work as in instructor to help pay his tuition rather than having a six figure student loan when he graduates. He'll also be building the flight time and experience needed to move on in the aviation world.

Also, keep in mind there are a lot of other opportunities to fly professionally than just the airlines.
 
I'm too tired to type tonight. I'll try to get back tomorrow.
 
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Aviation Medical: Any drug or alcohol trouble, arrests, minor in possession, etc...any psych prescription drugs...will cause big time grief for a future pilot.
Word to the wise.
 
Get a degree in something other than aviation. All your son needs is a degree. Could be history, art, engineering, business, etc. I have 15-17 days off a month and don't have to sit in a cubicle from 9-5. It's a unique job and wouldn't trade it for anything else. It's a big financial and time investment as well. Schedule an intro flight for your son and see if he really enjoys it. Good luck!
 
Paging @ARFlyer ... he is a recent university to FO with regionals graduate and can comment on the process at the school and what life has been like in the past few years flying for that regional.
 
Marry money...;)

There is a lot more to having a flying career besides airlines. Like medical flight jobs or corporate for example. Not everyone that wants to be an airline pilot makes it, and it is a very rough lifestyle in the beginning.

I agree with others, pick a different degree beside aviation. Make sure health will allow for a flying career. As Mason stated above, any drug, even legal recreational drug usage, alcohol problems and mental problems, even treatment for temporary depression will cause problems later on. Seems like even any treatment for ADHD, short term or long term is a disqualifier.

But for me, I started flying well into my 30s. I paid my dues and am doing well in a medivac career. I have a comfortable life style for me. My only wish is I wish I had started 15 years earlier.

It is good to see parents take interest and learn about their kids dream for a career. It sounds like you guys are great parents.
 
Honestly, this question cannot be answered in the word-count-averse format of this message board. Way too much to address. I can tell you almost universally, my married airline pilot co-workers have stay-at-home wives taking care of the kids full time at home through their heavily variable and 9-5-unfriendly schedules. The rest are divorced and the females of course have physical custody of the children; they merely send a check and fight for visitation, but otherwise are not encumbered by the impositions of a family when it comes to their work schedules. I don't have a wife who believes in that lifestyle (shes in college and intends to work full time, we are also parents), and I don't agree with the SAHW choice either since I would feel like a hypocrite rejecting the offer if my spouse asked me to stay at home in order to acquiesce to her career, but that's a personal choice. The rest of my airline buds are bachelors or DINKS and just crushing it on the layover lifestyle. I don't really take the latter two into consideration, as the entire society can't be childless, so I don't find them a useful metric for the median aspirant.

BL, your son needs to figure out what kind of family demographic he wishes to deal with in his 30s and 40s. Kids and a bona fide working spouse? (selling crap online for pin money while sipping on wine at home is NOT a legitimate job btw). Chances are not good it'll be a workable thing. Likewise, if the thought of taking a huge income paycut to remain employed stateside, regardless of age or experience (no lateral portability of income in airline work btw, which 99pct of the workers in this economy do enjoy) doesn't phase him, then knock yourself out. There's a ton of other issues that need addressing, but I've already exceeded most readers squirrel brain character count attention span. Ask this question in a professional message board, they'll probably be more willing to entertain more wordy responses.
 
hindsight2020 said:
Honestly, this question cannot be answered in the word-count-averse format of this message board. Way too much to address. I can tell you almost universally, my married airline pilot co-workers have stay-at-home wives taking care of the kids full time at home through their heavily variable and 9-5-unfriendly schedules. The rest are divorced and the females of course have physical custody of the children; they merely send a check and fight for visitation, but otherwise are not encumbered by the impositions of a family when it comes to their work schedules. I don't have a wife who believes in that lifestyle (shes in college and intends to work full time, we are also parents), and I don't agree with the SAHW choice either since I would feel like a hypocrite rejecting the offer if my spouse asked me to stay at home in order to acquiesce to her career, but that's a personal choice. The rest of my airline buds are bachelors or DINKS and just crushing it on the layover lifestyle. I don't really take the latter two into consideration, as the entire society can't be childless, so I don't find them a useful metric for the median aspirant.

BL, your son needs to figure out what kind of family demographic he wishes to deal with in his 30s and 40s. Kids and a bona fide working spouse? (selling crap online for pin money while sipping on wine at home is NOT a legitimate job btw). Chances are not good it'll be a workable thing. Likewise, if the thought of taking a huge income paycut to remain employed stateside, regardless of age or experience (no lateral portability of income in airline work btw, which 99pct of the workers in this economy do enjoy) doesn't phase him, then knock yourself out. There's a ton of other issues that need addressing, but I've already exceeded most readers squirrel brain character count attention span. Ask this question in a professional message board, they'll probably be more willing to entertain more wordy responses.
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My experience flying for Delta was nothing like this. Guys talked about how much more time they had with their kids than all their non-airline friends. In a very short time at an airline you can get a great schedule. I had to find a hobby for my spare time!
 
First bit of his career is going to be tuff, aviation ain't easy.

But I wouldn't trade it for the world, I work half the year, I'm home every night (or day sometimes), I make a difference in my community and I have a nice quality of life
 
I'm towards the end of training for my PPL. I definitely have absolutely no interest in flying for airlines. I don't plan on flying as a full time job personally either, but Part 135 or medivac would be interesting for sure.
 
I had only a private when I married at 19. My wife worked very little outside the home after we had our first son a year later. Three sons and I didn't commute very much the first few years while flying commuters. I think a lot of it boils down to character and maturity and the deep belief that divorce is not even a remote option. I am approaching the end of my career and by all normal standards should have never made it to the left seat of an MD11 for one of the two largest package carriers in the world and I never ever would have made it without my wife.
The job is frustrating, hard, mentally tough, uncertain at times but I wouldn't have traded it for anything else. Tell your son to do what his heart says but with his eyes open and back it up with a fallback education that will allow an income and a business to invest his earnings in.
 
There's no reason to be worried about marriage issues when your son is 17 years old. Let him accomplish some stuff in life and then let him determine how he is to be a good husband and father.

Things have changed so much in the last 5 years that anything you have read prior to 2011 about flying careers might as well be thrown out the window. The "get a degree in something other than aviation" is outdated advice. The incentive of a 500-hour reduction in flight experience to get hired at an airline (1,000 hours for aviation degree holders vs. 1,500 for everyone else) comes with significantly lower opportunity costs than following the non-aviation degree path, thanks in part to the big difference in hourly pay at airlines vs. everywhere else non-airline pilots get their start.

74% of S.T.E.M. (Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math) degree holders do not hold jobs in STEM-related fields. I have no stats to back it up, but anecdotal experience provides that nearly 100% of my buddies who graduated from professional pilot programs across the U.S. have a job flying airplanes. The only exception to this rule is those who were unmotivated to get 1,000 hours or those who encountered a medical problem.
 
  1. I have worked many jobs and owned a few companies. Flying 121 is by far the easiest job i ever did. When the last person steps off the plane, you have no work worries or phone calls for 2-14 days. Most of us get 16-20 days a month off & the salaries are finally great. There is no longer a need for a 4 year degree as the majors are struggling to find pilots. As far as relationships, if your SO is that needy that they cant be without you for a few day & can't trust you while you are away.... well... is that really a relationship?
 
I am a fairly successful business owner, and one idea I have is to purchase a King Air or similar and us just launch a new private charter business. Assuming you bought the plane right, how could you get hurt much doing this ?

Of course, we would have to run all of the numbers to ensure that it would cash flow, but how difficult can it be?

I admit this may be a very silly idea .
 
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Benny1718 said:
I am a fairly successful business owner, and one idea I have is to purchase a King Air or similar and us just launch a new private charter business. Assuming you bought the plane right, how could you get hurt much doing this ?

Of course, we would have to run all of the numbers to ensure that it would cash flow, but how difficult can it be?

I admit this may be a very silly idea .
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People make money in aviation, starting a new 135 op... not so much.
 
James331 said:
First bit of his career is going to be tuff, aviation ain't easy.

But I wouldn't trade it for the world, I work half the year, I'm home every night (or day sometimes), I make a difference in my community and I have a nice quality of life
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You are undermining the profession by saying you work 1/2 the year.
That is just false.
 
Benny1718 said:
I am a fairly successful business owner, and one idea I have is to purchase a King Air or similar and us just launch a new private charter business. Assuming you bought the plane right, how could you get hurt much doing this ?

Of course, we would have to run all of the numbers to ensure that it would cash flow, but how difficult can it be?

I admit this may be a very silly idea .
Click to expand...

The best way to get a small fortune out of an aviation business is to put in a large fortune.
 
Kritchlow said:
You are undermining the profession by saying you work 1/2 the year.
That is just false.
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Why? Even a desk job works less than 1/4 of the year, so half would suuuuuuck. :)

(261 workdays on average per year, 8 hour days ... 365 days a year with 24 hours in each.)

He's probably saying he works 182.5 days per year, which doesn't sound all that far off for a number of pro pilot friends, if you disregard the number hours worked on those days.

And thenfor the lucky few, there's the "work", and in the right circumstances, it's hard to "undermine" it much when folks who bid the backup crew slot on oceanic stuff themselves already call it, "dozing for dollars".

Nothing really to undermine. Some folk in the biz have great hours. Others not so much. Even a freight dog friend only flies four days a week. They're all in the middle of the night, but he's out and back nearly every day and home with the kiddos, and his pay is commensurate with his experience.

It tops out well into six-figures if he's there long enough and the company survives. Like everyone else on the planet, they're hiring anything that walks through the door with ATP mins.
 
@AggieMike88 "Red or White phone?"

So first off DO NOT let your son get an Aviation degree. It's as useless as an art appreciation degree. Trust me I'm stuck on that boat. I wish someone would have slapped me straight.

Suggest to your son for him to get a marketable degree. Be it IT, engineering, business, and/or physics. Basically any STEM degree will be golden.

If he wants to get his ratings have him go to a local mom and pop joint that flies old Cessnas near his college. He doesn't need any of that fancy glass cockpit until at least his instrument rating. He will need to get time in a glass but he just needs to focus on the basics of flying early on. At around his instrument he should start thinking about if this is what he really wants to do. If not then finish the instrument and keep flying as a hobby. If he does then he'll need to get his commercial then most likely his instructor ratings. He doesn't need to go to a 141 school or university for that Magical R-ATP. It's a only a 500 hour difference. The additional experience will help him. Plus that law might be completely different by that time. I have the R-ATP. It was nice getting to the airlines at 950 hours. However was I ready? OH HECK NO. It's a surprise and a quick learning curve.

On the family end it will be difficult the first few years. Regionals arn't very life friendly the first years until you build seniority. Seniority is everything in the airline world. It controls everything from your days off, vacations, to when you can upgrade or change aircraft. Once you get with a Major and/or Cargo your life will slowly start improving. If he can find a woman that doesn't mind being independent half the month then that's an amazing bonus. I had one and was about to marry her. Don't let them get away!

As for the kids, he will miss a lot of games and birthdays depending on how far along he is in his airline career. He might be able to hold a day trip schedule were he is home every night or he might hold a five block reserve schedule in a city on the other coast. Throwing a dart is more accurate on that topic.

The bottom line is it can be done and has been done be many. Is it easy at first no, but nothing is. I have friends that are doctors in resident who are home about as much as I am.

If he wants it badly enough he'll find away. I was out of the game for a year and now I find myself back in. I can't tell you why. I might be crazy but somehow I'm back.
 
This is what a typical new hire schedule looks like at a regional. This was my schedule about six months in.

The green SCN days are what is known at my last airline as Short Call No Preference days. Also known as Reserve.

Basically you have to be at your assigned base, e.g. airport, and be ready to report for duty within two hours of notification. The No Preference means I didn't want to be called first for assignments. I was put at the end of the call list for that day. My reasoning was that month my on call period started at 3am
to which I wanted sleep and could easily call after I woke up to ask for an assignment. Which I did because I don't live in base.

The other picture is a typical regional "trip". It's four days with a lot of out and backs. e.g. to an outstation and back to a hub.
 

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Benny1718 said:
one idea I have is to purchase a King Air or similar and us just launch a new private charter business.
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I have no personal experience at all with this but have been told if I get this urge I should hold my left hand on a wooden desk, and with my right hand, stab it swiftly and vigorously with an ice pick, straight through to the desk. It is less painful than the business idea, and over with quicker.
 
Benny1718 said:
I am a fairly successful business owner, and one idea I have is to purchase a King Air or similar and us just launch a new private charter business. Assuming you bought the plane right, how could you get hurt much doing this ?

Of course, we would have to run all of the numbers to ensure that it would cash flow, but how difficult can it be?

I admit this may be a very silly idea .
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You're stepping into one of the most regulated industries in the world. Many hoops to jump through.
 
James331 said:
One week on, one week off

Half and half

Seems like basic math to me?
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Think again.

Figure out time off on an office job vs your job. You come out far, far on the short side.

And I'm assuming you actually adhere to the duty time rules, which I'm far convinced is true.
 
denverpilot said:
Why? Even a desk job works less than 1/4 of the year, so half would suuuuuuck. :)

(261 workdays on average per year, 8 hour days ... 365 days a year with 24 hours in each.)

He's probably saying he works 182.5 days per year, which doesn't sound all that far off for a number of pro pilot friends, if you disregard the number hours worked on those days.

And thenfor the lucky few, there's the "work", and in the right circumstances, it's hard to "undermine" it much when folks who bid the backup crew slot on oceanic stuff themselves already call it, "dozing for dollars".

Nothing really to undermine. Some folk in the biz have great hours. Others not so much. Even a freight dog friend only flies four days a week. They're all in the middle of the night, but he's out and back nearly every day and home with the kiddos, and his pay is commensurate with his experience.

It tops out well into six-figures if he's there long enough and the company survives. Like everyone else on the planet, they're hiring anything that walks through the door with ATP mins.
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Lol!!! I'll read this when I get home.

I'm at the bar!!!!
 
Kritchlow said:
Think again.

Figure out time off on an office job vs your job. You come out far, far on the short side.

And I'm assuming you actually adhere to the duty time rules, which I'm far convinced is true.
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Average work week for a full time job is currently 47 hrs or 9.4 hrs per day. For the month of March (M-F),that equals 216.2 hrs. I'm scheduled for only 180 hrs for March with 7 on and 7 off.

Not that you can even call it work. I "worked" 12 hrs hrs last night. I spent 6 hrs reading a book and watching TV and then 6 hrs of sleep. Home every night / day.
 
Velocity173 said:
Average work week for a full time job is currently 47 hrs or 9.4 hrs per day. For the month of March (M-F),that equals 216.2 hrs. I'm scheduled for only 180 hrs for March with 7 on and 7 off.

Not that you can even call it work. I "worked" 12 hrs hrs last night. I spent 6 hrs reading a book and watching TV and then 6 hrs of sleep. Home every night / day.
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So, you can you ever overnight??
 
Kritchlow said:
So, you can you ever overnight??
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Are you asking if I've ever done an overnight like away from my place of work? No. At the end of my 12 hr shift I go home. That's helo. Maybe James gets stuck overnight somewhere in FW but we don't.
 
Velocity173 said:
Are you asking if I've ever done an overnight like away from my place of work? No. At the end of my 12 hr shift I go home. That's helo. Maybe James gets stuck overnight somewhere in FW but we don't.
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If you have a 7 on 7 off job with ZERO overnights, and only 14 hours duty (available to answer phone), than you have one of the most primo jobs on the planet.
I envy you.

But truthfully... that's not the norm.
 
Kritchlow said:
If you have a 7 on 7 off job with ZERO overnights, and only 14 hours duty (available to answer phone), than you have one of the most primo jobs on the planet.
I envy you.

But truthfully... that's not the norm.
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Overnights, you're referring to a "layover" after the duty day correct? Like checking into a hotel? No, we don't do that. Yes, we do work nights though, as I am right now...watching TV. 14 hrs max duty but scheduled for 12. We don't go past 12 very often.

This job isn't the "most primo" job if you're looking at supporting a wife and kids. The pay is never a draw for MEDEVAC. Based on what I've read, I probably make average Capt pay on a regional. Not good.

As James always says, it's about QOL and in flying jobs, I think this one is hard to beat.
 
Velocity173 said:
Overnights, you're referring to a "layover" after the duty day correct? Like checking into a hotel? No, we don't do that. Yes, we do work nights though, as I am right now...watching TV. 14 hrs max duty but scheduled for 12. We don't go past 12 very often.

This job isn't the "most primo" job if you're looking at supporting a wife and kids. The pay is never a draw for MEDEVAC. Based on what I've read, I probably make average Capt pay on a regional. Not good.

As James always says, it's about QOL and in flying jobs, I think this one is hard to beat.
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I just don't believe most of those jobs adhere to proper rest time restrictions. Yours might, and James might, but most do not. If you have a 14 hour day, and you have been on call for 11 hours, they cannot send you on a 4 hour mission even though you've been sitting in your butt all day.
Also they must give you a time to be available the following day.
 
If I could entry level at the level of a dude at a legacy that is just below the chief pilot in seniority, I'd be good.

I work with one of those guys. He has a lot of free time and a lot of money to use on that free time.
 
ircphoenix said:
If I could entry level at the level of a dude at a legacy that is just below the chief pilot in seniority, I'd be good.

I work with one of those guys. He has a lot of free time and a lot of money to use on that free time.
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Lol!!! It doesn't work that way.
I realize you understand about seniority, but the chief pilot is a management position... often well down the seniority list.
 
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