Failed Pre-Buy Demo Flight- Pilot Wants to be Paid

Fearless Tower said:
Just because they did it that way way back in the day doesn't mean it is the best way today when better tools are available.
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Maybe you are better served with a Cirrus then.

But, okay, smart guy.....if that is how you want to instruct, don't you think you should be on the same page with the student before you commit to flight??? I sure do.
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It takes two to (mis)communicate.

I would like to hear the CFIs side of this story.
 
LearDriver said:
Really, you wanted a ride more than you wanted to know what the real status of the aircraft was. You never go flying in something that don't know the true status of. Logbook inspection, AD research then mechanical inspection. If those two don't pan out and look like the books describe the aircraft in question then you walk. No going for a flight, you just walk at that point in time not beholding to anyone.

No flight was actually necessary anyways because as you said the aircraft didn't pass inspection. So if you had done the steps in that order you wouldn't be complaining about the $200 and the issues pertaining to it.
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I do agree that is the best way to do it.

In this case, I was being agreeable to the way THEY wanted to do it. They (the seller and broker) wanted to do the demo first and then the inspection. They were offering the plane with a fresh annual and wanted to start the annual as soon as my IA was done with his look rather than pull panels off, put panels back on to fly and then pull them off again.
 
Fearless Tower said:
I do agree that is the best way to do it.

In this case, I was being agreeable to the way THEY wanted to do it. They (the seller and broker) wanted to do the demo first and then the inspection. They were offering the plane with a fresh annual and wanted to start the annual as soon as my IA was done with his look rather than pull panels off, put panels back on to fly and then pull them off again.
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That's the way it's done when you are trying to sell junk. Keep in mind an aircraft sale is an advasarial relationship. Each side trying to cut a fat hog on the transaction. I have been involved in quite a few transactions. Always dictate the steps and the order that you want to do things. Otherwise you may get separated with a lot of your money.
 
LearDriver said:
Otherwise you may get separated with a lot of your money.
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And Fearless did lose more money then he should have on this shady deal... You can bet the "demo /CFI pilot that was provided by the seller /broker was in on the scam too....

That is the reason is say..... DON'T pay the con artists..:no::no:
 
N801BH said:
And Fearless did lose more money then he should have on this shady deal... You can bet the "demo /CFI pilot that was provided by the seller /broker was in on the scam too....

That is the reason is say..... DON'T pay the con artists..:no::no:
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Fearless walked into this one that is for sure. Of course you have a bunch of excitement about buying a warbird. Who wouldn't that is into airplanes. But you have to temper that excitement with a levelheaded strategy. You have a good IA who is a specialist do the mechanical and logbook eval. Then you hire an extremely experienced pilot. Not you buddy that has one. But a third party. Have him wring it out and sqwak it to death. After that's all done then you go for a flight in it to confirm the results of all that effort and due diligence.
 
It seems things were definitely misrepresented and that sucks. Close this chapter and go search out a worthy T6!

My first hour of flight was in one and it's an aircraft I will own in the future after I build some time.

Good luck with your search, may it be a more fruitful one!

Jon
 
Skyhawk4754 said:
Schooling cost money no matter where you attend.........

Gotta Pay Up :)
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This is bullsh!t, this attitude is the bane of general aviation that we have to bend over and take being f-ked every time some incompetent crook says so, f-k that. Ask me for that $300 and you'd get a swift kick in the nuts for being an idiot and thinking me a bigger one and a fool.
 
Sounds to me that you let the no intercom **** you off and then decieded to not fly the aircraft yourself. I my early years of flying I flew without intercoms and non working intercoms. It was a pain but we didn't cancel the flight because of it. Also we are taking your word for "the plane was a basket case." You wouldn't be flying it if it was out of anual so if it realy was a basket case why did you go up in it? HP warbirds are old aircraft and IAs are picky because they want to keep their jobs. What you didn't like the paint job? Your case sounds a little fishy so I think you should pay up and chalk it up as a learning experience. Maybe do some anger managment research.
 
martinlb44 said:
Sounds to me that you let the no intercom **** you off and then decieded to not fly the aircraft yourself. I my early years of flying I flew without intercoms and non working intercoms. It was a pain but we didn't cancel the flight because of it. Also we are taking your word for "the plane was a basket case." You wouldn't be flying it if it was out of anual so if it realy was a basket case why did you go up in it? HP warbirds are old aircraft and IAs are picky because they want to keep their jobs. What you didn't like the paint job? Your case sounds a little fishy so I think you should pay up and chalk it up as a learning experience. Maybe do some anger managment research.
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First post.... Welcome to POA...:cheers:...

I "think" .....:confused:..........................................:idea:
 
martinlb44 said:
Sounds to me that you let the no intercom **** you off and then decieded to not fly the aircraft yourself. I my early years of flying I flew without intercoms and non working intercoms. It was a pain but we didn't cancel the flight because of it. Also we are taking your word for "the plane was a basket case." You wouldn't be flying it if it was out of anual so if it realy was a basket case why did you go up in it? HP warbirds are old aircraft and IAs are picky because they want to keep their jobs. What you didn't like the paint job? Your case sounds a little fishy so I think you should pay up and chalk it up as a learning experience. Maybe do some anger managment research.
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Welcome to POA. But for future references, please note the date of the last post. This thread is two years old.
 
One other take away might be to establish explicit expectations for each stage of the pre-purchase review. There is a reason contacts have become so long and complicated. Over time, frustration over conflicting expectations has led to more detailed definition of those expectations up front. Explicit definition what you expect and what you will pay for it before you get together would prevent future disagreements over what services are to be provided and who should paypay for them.
 
martinlb44 said:
Sounds to me that you let the no intercom **** you off and then decieded to not fly the aircraft yourself. I my early years of flying I flew without intercoms and non working intercoms. It was a pain but we didn't cancel the flight because of it. Also we are taking your word for "the plane was a basket case." You wouldn't be flying it if it was out of anual so if it realy was a basket case why did you go up in it? HP warbirds are old aircraft and IAs are picky because they want to keep their jobs. What you didn't like the paint job? Your case sounds a little fishy so I think you should pay up and chalk it up as a learning experience. Maybe do some anger managment research.
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If you are going to resurrect a two year old thread that has since been resolved, may I suggest you actually read the whole thread. It is clear by your post that you have not.

Since you didn't read through it, let me summarize: I was pi$$ed off at the fact that the material condition of the whole airplane was not as advertised. Based on the original discussion in this thread, I ended up paying and chalked it up as a learning experience. I haven't made that mistake again.
 
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I know. I just read the whole thread wondering what could have happened to bump it. Then I was disappointed.
 
Seems a lot of old threads being resurrected lately. So Fearless....did you ever get a different T-6?
 
Flymeariver said:
So Fearless....did you ever get a different T-6?
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No. A few months after the deal fell through, I moved to Norfolk and found a T-6 for rent locally that is much cheaper than owning. I can't take it out solo, but I can still have fun and build time.

Once I figured that out, I ended up buying a Baron.
 
Fearless Tower said:
No. A few months after the deal fell through, I moved to Norfolk and found a T-6 for rent locally that is much cheaper than owning. I can't take it out solo, but I can still have fun and build time.

Once I figured that out, I ended up buying a Baron.
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Did you look into getting a hanger over at PVG? I was wondering how much hangars were going for over there nowadays.
 
austinglasair said:
Did you look into getting a hanger over at PVG? I was wondering how much hangars were going for over there nowadays.
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I'm now in a corporate hangar at ORF. It is $500/month, but much better than the T-hangars and 10-15 min from my house.

I looked at PVG, but it is at least a 45 min drive from my house, much shorter runway with no precision approach and the new hangars start at $450/ month.

The older decrepit hangars are much cheaper (under $300), but were full last I checked.

Cheapest hangar in the area is CPK starting at $260/month.
 
Fearless Tower said:
I'm now in a corporate hangar at ORF. It is $500/month, but much better than the T-hangars and 10-15 min from my house.

I looked at PVG, but it is at least a 45 min drive from my house, much shorter runway with no precision approach and the new hangars start at $450/ month.

The older decrepit hangars are much cheaper (under $300), but were full last I checked.

Cheapest hangar in the area is CPK starting at $260/month.
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Completely understandable. My Dad used to rent one of those hangars at PVG when they were $100/month and were in good condition (ohh the 80s). I try to keep up with PVG as much as possible. The airport is exploding in hangar capacity on the west side. They need to hurry up with the new runway and get something with precision in there! I don't see how they can justify $450 for those T-hangars now. It's wrong.
 
How about your time? You went x number of miles to get to this nightmare demo of a piece of *****. The airplane was misrepresented and the " demo pilot" , in on the deal wants payment of 300 bucks?! Tell the airplane owner to pay him. I'd give them nothing and probably follow Hennings suggestion. Get serious.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
How about your time? You went x number of miles to get to this nightmare demo of a piece of *****. The airplane was misrepresented and the " demo pilot" , in on the deal wants payment of 300 bucks?! Tell the airplane owner to pay him. I'd give them nothing and probably follow Hennings suggestion. Get serious.
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One of my former business partners did this. He'd get a bill for something like this with someone expecting to compensation for xyz reasons. He'd counter their bill with an invoice for something double that amount that he'd want paid. I.e. His time, resources, miles traveled, etc etc. normally he situation was dissolved right there.
 
RotorAndWing said:
IMO, pay the pilot what you think is fair and move on.

You learned a lot with this experience. Don't dwell, learn and move on.
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I agree completely. It appears that there was no formal contract in place, and FT clearly did not get what he thought he had agreed to pay for. As to paying for the "waiting time", IMO that would make sense if the owner or broker brought that up when asked if he was willing to wait (e.g. "we can wait but you'll need to pay for the CFI's wasted time while waiting").

I do think FT should offer something but $300 seems rather excessive given what he got in return. I can see how the CFI might feel otherwise but if the owner or broker feels this is unfair to the CFI, they should put some cash in themselves.
 
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