Failed Oral

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confused123

Filing Flight Plan
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confused
I failed an oral but the examiner marked 'practical' section of the disapproval, why?

Whats the difference between the Flight / Oral / Practical boxes?
 
Did the examiner mark both the practical and oral boxes, or only the practical box? If the former, it kind of makes sense because you still need to demonstrate 100% of the practical content. If the latter, then perhaps it was a mistake?
 
Yes it matters as you will have to explain to employers whether you failed the oral or flight
 
Do you expect to give an employer a copy of the form?

If asked, you say “I failed the oral exam.” They will then ask what you missed and whether you completed the rest of the oral successfully.

Which exam was this? PPL, CPL,...?
 
Employers pull the records from the FAA. I tell them oral but then they see Practical ticked on file..
Whats the difference between flight and practical?
 
Which employer asks if you failed the oral? I’ve only seen them ask if you’ve failed a checkride.
Failing an oral would include failing a check ride. A failed oral or flight portion is a failed check ride, regardless of which portion you fail.
 
They ask if you failed a check ride:- Answer Yes.
They ask oral or flight section:- Answer Oral.
Then they ask why does your record not show oral and shows practical.
 
confused123 said:
They ask if you failed a check ride:- Answer Yes.
They ask oral or flight section:- Answer Oral.
Then they ask why does your record not show oral and shows practical.
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Gotcha. I guess I’ve never seen that asked before. Maybe the examiner made a mistake.
 
confused123 said:
They ask if you failed a check ride:- Answer Yes.
They ask oral or flight section:- Answer Oral.
Then they ask why does your record not show oral and shows practical.
Click to expand...

Instead of obsessing, start studying or you be be answering why you failed the oral twice.
 
The practical test has two parts, oral and flight. I presume you never made it to the flight portion, so you failed the entire practical exam.
 
That would make sense. But is it possible to even take and pass the flight section after failing the oral?
 
Is anybody curious on why you failed the oral??
I am. Teachable moment perhaps. What happened??
 
benyflyguy said:
Is anybody curious on why you failed the oral??
I am. Teachable moment perhaps. What happened??
Click to expand...
Pretty sure I know. He failed because he's 19 and trusted his CFI on when to take the test. If he wises up now, he'll ignore his CFI the next time(s) and pour over the ACS like his life depends on him being able to teach it to somebody else. Then, not take any test until he's 100% confident nobody can stop him from acing it.
 
confused123 said:
Yes it matters as you will have to explain to employers whether you failed the oral or flight
Click to expand...

Unless this was a 135/121 checkride, or it was like your second time failing the same ride, doubt anyone cares about popping a pt 61 ride.
 
confused123 said:
Yes it matters as you will have to explain to employers whether you failed the oral or flight
Click to expand...

I think you know which one you failed o_O

confused123 said:
They ask if you failed a check ride:- Answer Yes.
They ask oral or flight section:- Answer Oral.
Then they ask why does your record not show oral and shows practical.
Click to expand...

No one is going to ask "well which one was it, the oral or the practical"? The question doesn't make sense. Everyone knows that the oral is a component of the practical test. Your hypothetical dialog quoted above is not going to happen.
 
dtuuri said:
Pretty sure I know. He failed because he's 19 and trusted his CFI on when to take the test. If he wises up now, he'll ignore his CFI the next time(s) and pour over the ACS like his life depends on him being able to teach it to somebody else. Then, not take any test until he's 100% confident nobody can stop him from acing it.
Click to expand...

A CFI should not be endorsing a student for the practical who is unprepared, a student who has never taken a practical kinda has to trust their CFI. So I do not fault the OP in that regard.
 
confused123 said:
I failed an oral but the examiner marked 'practical' section of the disapproval, why?

Whats the difference between the Flight / Oral / Practical boxes?
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IACRA automatically generates the Notice of Disapproval with the "Practical" box checked. It does not differentiate between Oral and Flight. The comments field is where the evaluator describes the areas of operation and specific tasks which were deemed unsatisfactory. All of the Notices of Disapproval I've issued have had the "Practical" box marked regardless of whether the practical test was failed during the flight or ground portion.
 
Note that the Box is labeled "Type of examination" not "Area of examination".
 
This thread isn't what I thought it would be.......
 
Ryanb said:
I can’t find it right off hand, but the FAA does require the oral portion to be satisfactory before moving onto the practical test.
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I believe you, I’d just like a document to point to.

There was nothing in either of my orals that if I missed it, the DPE would have still considered me good to fly.

I was allowed to use any reference material I liked during my orals (didn’t need to), so if that’s universal it seems like it would be difficult to fail that portion unless you gave wrong answers rather than looking up the correct info.
 
Ryanb said:
I can’t find it right off hand, but the FAA does require the oral portion to be satisfactory before moving onto the practical test.
Click to expand...
The Private Pilot ACS (the only one I looked at) says, "The ground portion of the practical test allows the evaluator to determine whether the applicant is sufficiently prepared to advance to the flight portion of the practical test. The oral questioning will continue throughout the entire practical test." This seems to confirm that the candidate should not proceed to the flight if they are unsuccessful during the ground portion.
 
What constitutes failure for the oral portion? There aren’t fixed questions and answers.

Mine were more like conversations about flying where the DPE proposed some scenarios and “what if” problems and I told him what I would do. There can easily be more than one correct response. There’s quite a bit of judgement involved on the DPE’s part.
 
Half Fast said:
What constitutes failure for the oral portion? There aren’t fixed questions and answers.
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Among others, here's how one private pilot applicant earned a pink slip from me. I took him into the weather bureau and asked him to name a few weather charts I pointed to on the wall. He had names readily in mind, but they were always the wrong ones. He was just reading the labels for the charts posted directly above (or below, I forget which way), like the prices on a grocery store shelf.
 
Half Fast said:
What constitutes failure for the oral portion? There aren’t fixed questions and answers.
Click to expand...

There’s quite a bit of judgement involved on the DPE’s part.
Click to expand...

That's a true statement, in a sense, but don't misunderstand the basis of the standards and how they are applied -- not to mention how the FAA requires that practical tests be conducted.

To the highest extent possible, the goal is to standardize practical tests. Is it possible to make them literally devoid of subjective decision-making on the part of the evaluator? No. But it is possible to provide training and guidance to the evaluators so that this analysis is, or should be, driven by a common set of standards and guidelines.

Take the private pilot certificate. The evaluator and applicant are moving from the Cross-Country Flight Planning task (I.D) into the National Airspace System task (I.E). The applicant is unable to identify a couple of features on the chart. Failure? Depends on what those elements are. If the applicant can't identify Class B airspace or the equipment and radio communication requirements to enter it, the applicant has not "demonstrated satisfactory knowledge, risk management, and skills associated with the NAS operating under VFR as a private pilot." That's especially true if the flight plan in question transited near or through Class B airspace. But a more obscure charted feature which required lookup probably wouldn't be worthy of an unsat on its own.

The goal is to probe the applicant's knowledge to determine that they will be able to safely and legally operate an aircraft in the NAS. An encyclopedic knowledge of regs, charts, and aircraft performance is not required. Drawing that line isn't as difficult or as subjective as it may seem. Generally I try to get applicants to correlate knowledge on their own when they're nervous rather than just shut down the ride. If they can't do it even when I try to give them different ways to recall important knowledge elements, that's when it's time to do some additional training and try again later.
 
Rgbeard said:
The OPs username is "confused". Ummmmm. Not a good sign.

Considered being a professional kite flyer?
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If all it takes to evaluate an applicant's qualifications to be a pilot is to read what they post on the Internet, then I guess checkrides serve no purpose, right? ;)
 
As others have said,I have never been asked in an interview if I have failed a checkride.

I have been asked if I have damaged a plane, or if I have any violations on record and how I would handle having a crew member show up for work drunk.

The worst part of an interview is watching someone read questions off a list and knowing that person has no idea of the subject on what they are asking.
 
It’s a standard question on all 121 applications.
 
What checkride was it, private, instrument, commercial?
 
Palmpilot said:
If all it takes to evaluate an applicant's qualifications to be a pilot is to read what they post on the Internet, then I guess checkrides serve no purpose, right? ;)
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I would think a truly diligent DPE would review all internet content posted by and about the candidate as part of the evaluation, wouldn't you?

;)
 
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