Extra 330 Normal Category

Discussion in 'Aerobatics' started by Ray Jr, Aug 4, 2019.

  1. Ray Jr

    Ray Jr Filing Flight Plan

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    Hi All,
    I'm wondering about loading passengers in an extra and doing aerobatics. The following are weights for an Extra 330 LT. A full acro tank weighs about 100 lbs.

    typ. equipped empty weight 1.493 lbs / 677 kg
    MTOW normal category (+6/-3g) 2.095 lbs / 950 kg
    MTOW two-pilot acro (+8/-8g) 1.918 lbs / 870 kg
    MTOW single-pilot acro (+10/-10g) 1.808 lbs / 820 kg

    If the pilot weighed 210lbs (not exactly a random number :rolleyes:), that only leaves 115lbs for the front passenger (aprox):confused:. That means a 210 pilot is going to be flying in Normal Category almost all the time when carrying a passenger.

    The question is (for someone who has never flown aerobatics) what if any aerobatics can you do in Normal Category? It says +6/-3 g which seems like a lot to me, but that "Normal Category" vs "Acro category" has me thinking you can't do aerobatics at all.

    Thanks very much!
     
  2. Salty

    Salty En-Route PoA Supporter

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    What does the poh say?
     
  3. Ray Jr

    Ray Jr Filing Flight Plan

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    It calls it Normal Category -> Acrobatic category 3 and says +6-/6g. So I guess the difference between normal category and Acro 3 is whether or not you have gas in the wings?

    How about +6/-6 gs ? Is that actually restrictive for acro flight? Or not so much?
     
  4. Dana

    Dana Line Up and Wait

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    The minimum for acrobatic category is +6/-3. I believe that's the limits for the C-150 Aerobat. The POH will specify what maneuvers are permitted in each category.
     
  5. djpacro

    djpacro Pre-Flight

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    Aerobatics is never permitted in normal category.
     
  6. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Reference, please?
     
  7. djpacro

    djpacro Pre-Flight

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    FAR 23. Also refer the POH.
     
  8. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Sure, POH limitations prevent aerobatics in most normal category airplanes, but I can't find anything, even in part 23, that forbids aerobatics in a normal category airplane. In fact, the existence of 23.2005(e) would seem to indicate that it is possible to certify a normal category airplane that does allow aerobatics.
     
  9. djpacro

    djpacro Pre-Flight

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    Yep, 23.2005 of FAR 23 Amendment 64 is a whole new world.

    The Extra is certified to an earlier version of FAR 23 which specifically has normal, utility and aerobatic categories with associated limitations and requirements. I should’ve referred to the specific amendment of FAR 23 stated in the Type Certificate Data Sheet for the applicable rule rather than looking at the new FAR 23.

    Older versions of FAR 23 are online, see 23.3 at http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_G...AB51E741104F7C1686257996006CAD44?OpenDocument

    Advisory Circulars haven’t yet caught up e.g. take a peek at page 96 https://www.faa.gov/documentlibrary/media/advisory_circular/ac_23-8c.pdf
    Utility category airplanes may be approved for intentional spins per aerobatic category or not approved for spins per normal category.
     
  10. Inverted

    Inverted Cleared for Takeoff

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    With FAA adults and full acro tank, you should be close to the limit of Acro II by the book. My Extra (strait Extra 300) has this limitation, and I am sure yours is the same:





    2.8.2 NORMAL FLIGHT

    All acrobatic maneuvers are prohibited except stall, chandelle, lazy eight and turns up to 60 degrees bank angle.


    So no aerobatics are allowed unless you fall under ACRO I and ACRO II categories.
     
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  11. Inverted

    Inverted Cleared for Takeoff

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    The way I fly my airplane (I do mostly instruction) is that I takeoff in normal category with some fuel in the wings, I burn that off going to the practice area and start instructing when I get to ACRO II weight limits.
     
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