EPA Finds Small Airplanes Cause Dangerous Lead Pollution

Racerx said:
No they didnt. They have 94ul. Which doesn't solve the problem for most of of us.
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Doh, I didn't read completely. It still doesn't change my opinion that the real driver for RHV closing is politics and land use. with that being said, I do think lead should be removed from aviation fuel.
 
NoBShere said:
They did convert RHV to 100UL. But RHV isn't about lead, or noise, or dangerous old airplanes or whatever other reason has been given over the years (just like every other small airport that has closed in any state). Its about politics and land, nothing else (just like every other small airport that has closed in any state).
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Oh I understand that it isn't about "lead poisoning of children" at all, that's just one of the mechanisms they are using to push their political agenda. I just meant if they moved over exclusively to GAMI 100UL, that immediately removes lead pollution from the equation and they no longer have that tool in their bag.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Can we see the research showing harm?
I mean the raw data, not an opinion piece.
Ive always had my doubts.

(Besides, I think far and above anything else, child stupidity is caused by things like parents/culture/society.)
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www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

An Update on Childhood Lead Poisoning

Childhood lead poisoning is a multi-faceted, complex condition, which affects not only the child’s health and well-being, but also the family’s housing security, economic status, job security, and stress level. This review updates the ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Low-Level Environmental Lead Exposure and Children’s Intellectual Function: An International Pooled Analysis

Lead is a confirmed neurotoxin, but questions remain about lead-associated intellectual deficits at blood lead levels < 10 μg/dL and whether lower exposures are, for a given change in exposure, associated with greater deficits. The objective ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Intellectual Impairment in Children with Blood Lead Concentrations below 10 µg per Deciliter

Despite dramatic declines in children’s blood lead concentrations and a lowering of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s level of concern to 10 µg per deciliter (0.483 µmol per liter), little is known about ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
 
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Let'sgoflying! said:
(Besides, I think far and above anything else, child stupidity is caused by things like parents/culture/society.)
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Ignoring my thoughts on lead, I think this is a very valuable observation.
But I do think lead is a problem in many ways and if we had any way to remove it, I think we should latch onto it.

I wonder if there will ever be an unleaded, 100 octane aviation fuel approved for all piston planes.
 
Kitch said:
Noise pollution will be the next thing and then there will be another thing after that. These jerks (being polite) need to get a life or a job or both.
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But It is their job. These organizations have paid staff, boards of directors and donors (stockholders). All off these ‘charities’ are a business. Many, like the poverty charities seek government money. There is nothing grassroots about these organizations.
 
JOhnH said:
Ignoring my thoughts on lead, I think this is a very valuable observation.
But I do think lead is a problem in many ways and if we had any way to remove it, I think we should latch onto it.

I wonder if there will ever be an unleaded, 100 octane aviation fuel approved for all piston planes.
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So when we get rid of lead at Airport, should we expect a uptick in IQ and SAT scores?
 
Morgan3820 said:
But It is their job. These organizations have paid staff, boards of directors and donors (stockholders). All off these ‘charities’ are a business. Many, like the poverty charities seek government money. There is nothing grassroots about these organizations.
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Oh, if only there were such some sort of association that was good at supporting aircraft owners and pilots. Maybe it could also have paid staff, a board of directors, seek donations, etc.

Oh wait.....
 
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And who is manning the EPA now?

My pet peeve is the fuel can. I want to bring back the regular one, pour spout with air hole in back. Yes, mine are are older or ‘modified’.

Think of the amount of leaded gas burned now compared to 1970, but it’s worse now?!

We may soon have WWIII to worry about, no more concern with a small amount of leaded fuel.
 
Half Fast said:
Oh, if only there were such some sort of association that was good at supporting aircraft owners and pilots. Maybe it could also have paid staff, a board of directors, seek donations, etc.

Oh wait.....
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And here's their take on the finding.
www.aopa.org

EPA releases final avgas emission endangerment finding

The endangerment finding published October 18 by the Environmental Protection Agency will have no immediate impact on the availability of avgas while the industry continues to work on a safe transition to unleaded fuel that all piston aircraft can use.
www.aopa.org
 
asicer said:
And here's their take on the finding.
www.aopa.org

EPA releases final avgas emission endangerment finding

The endangerment finding published October 18 by the Environmental Protection Agency will have no immediate impact on the availability of avgas while the industry continues to work on a safe transition to unleaded fuel that all piston aircraft can use.
www.aopa.org
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I can't look for it now, but I read a recent article from AOPA on this. They talked about EAGLE, but not a word about G100UL.
 
NoBShere said:
They did convert RHV to 100UL. But RHV isn't about lead, or noise, or dangerous old airplanes or whatever other reason has been given over the years (just like every other small airport that has closed in any state). Its about politics and land, nothing else (just like every other small airport that has closed in any state).
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This. Developers and their employees (aka the Santa Clara County Board of Supervisors) have been trying to close RHV since at least the 80s and take the land so they can profit. So far they haven’t gotten a majority vote, and lead is just one more knife they’re throwing at the target.
 
NoBShere said:
They did convert RHV to 100UL. But RHV isn't about lead, or noise, or dangerous old airplanes or whatever other reason has been given over the years (just like every other small airport that has closed in any state). Its about politics and land, nothing else (just like every other small airport that has closed in any state).
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Can you verify that they converted to 100UL?
Foreflight shows they have UL94 for $7.49

edit: I should have kept reading. I see that @Racerx already pointed that out.
 
sourdough44 said:
And who is manning the EPA now?

My pet peeve is the fuel can. I want to bring back the regular one, pour spout with air hole in back. Yes, mine are are older or ‘modified’.
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Yes! I hate those #$%(*! things. Glacially slow to pour, and they leak like sieves at every joint in the stupidly-complex multi-component spout. I estimate every 5-gallon pour puts about a quart of gas on the ground.

I cherish the two 'normal' cans I have, and have modified the others I keep on hand for the generator, but they still suck.
 
GaryM said:
Yes! I hate those #$%(*! things. Glacially slow to pour, and they leak like sieves at every joint in the stupidly-complex multi-component spout. I estimate every 5-gallon pour puts about a quart of gas on the ground.

I cherish the two 'normal' cans I have, and have modified the others I keep on hand for the generator, but they still suck.
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Quit whining and drop the over-zealous rule following and solutions will present themselves. :biggrin:

racerwalsh.com

VP Racing Fuel Jug RWA7350VP

RWA7350VP fuel jug is manufactured by VP racing. VP’s 5-GL Motorsport Containers are made with only the highest quality virgin high-density polyethylene, including 30% more material than standard containers to withstand the roughest treatment. The containers are subjected to a 15-point quality...
racerwalsh.com racerwalsh.com

"For Racing Fuel only, such as Nitromethane or Methanol, used in sanctioned motorsports. Not for fuel used on highways."​

Yeah, right......

Better than spilling fuel onto the ground by far.
 
Morgan3820 said:
So when we get rid of lead at Airport, should we expect an uptick in IQ and SAT scores?
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Next generation, maybe. This is a situation where “there is no fixing dumb”, is a true statement. I hope to be proven wrong!

-Skip
 
172andyou said:
When it was removed from gas, we got one.

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I thought there was a period in time when reported scores went up, but the actual number of correct answers decreased. I remember reading about that many many years ago..... way before the interweb.

edit: https://blog.prepscholar.com/average-sat-scores-over-time; not an impressive increase over time.

note that the SAT was apparently redesigned for 2016, so the jump in scores shouldn't impress anyone.

additional edit:

https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d07/tables/dt07_135.asp

Unless I'm misreading it, that page isn't showing ANY improvement. Of course that table is for college-bound seniors. If a greater percentage of student go to college, that would tend to drag down the average for the SAT scores.

I really really REALLY hate the unfurl tag.
 
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Bob Noel said:
Unless I'm misreading it, that page isn't showing ANY improvement. Of course that table is for college-bound seniors. If a greater percentage of student go to college, that would tend to drag down the average for the SAT scores.
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FWIW, the study I linked deals with IQ, not SAT. And it's pretty easy to read, if you're interested.

There is also pretty good evidence relating lead to violent crime, if IQ isn't enough.
 
172andyou said:
FWIW, the study I linked deals with IQ, not SAT. And it's pretty easy to read, if you're interested.

There is also pretty good evidence relating lead to violent crime, if IQ isn't enough.
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ok, but is IQ an absolute measure or a relative measure?

"a number representing a person's reasoning ability (measured using problem-solving tests) as compared to the statistical norm or average for their age, taken as 100."

Kind of hard to have everyone get an IQ above 100, isn't it?
 
Bob Noel said:
ok, but is IQ an absolute measure or a relative measure?

"a number representing a person's reasoning ability (measured using problem-solving tests) as compared to the statistical norm or average for their age, taken as 100."

Kind of hard to have everyone get an IQ above 100, isn't it?
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Did you not read the study? Or not understand it? I'm not sure what you are asking, because it's very clearly stated. They measured lead blood levels and measured the mental deficits that resulted. Higher lead resulted in higher deficits.
 
GaryM said:
I cherish the two 'normal' cans I have, and have modified the others I keep on hand for the generator, but they still suck.
Click to expand...
71-TZvToBnL._AC_UF1000,1000_QL80_FMwebp_.jpg

 
Half Fast said:
Quit whining and drop the over-zealous rule following and solutions will present themselves. :biggrin:

racerwalsh.com

VP Racing Fuel Jug RWA7350VP

RWA7350VP fuel jug is manufactured by VP racing. VP’s 5-GL Motorsport Containers are made with only the highest quality virgin high-density polyethylene, including 30% more material than standard containers to withstand the roughest treatment. The containers are subjected to a 15-point quality...
racerwalsh.com racerwalsh.com

"For Racing Fuel only, such as Nitromethane or Methanol, used in sanctioned motorsports. Not for fuel used on highways."​

Yeah, right......

Better than spilling fuel onto the ground by far.
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This. ^^^

I don't think anyone really needs to worry about the local fuel can compliance enforcement team writing them up.

Many solutions exist, most at any farm store. Some are still even made of metal, and will easily ground to the plane for a spark free filling experience if needed.
3958668
1137197_A1

Oodles of DIY improvements on eBay and Amazon as well. Search for gas can vent caps and spouts.

s-l1600.png

611yZf4wdvL._SL1500_.jpg
 
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RyanShort1 said:
Citizens find letter-agency is a biased, anti-business entity who's mandates should be opposed with reason and logic...
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Reason and logic are not enough by themselves. They are a means of getting from a premise or premises to a conclusion or conclusions. If the premises aren't valid, the conclusions won't be.

Of course, the letter-agencies need to bear that in mind as well.
 
I'm not worried about avgas.... look at the warning on my new trailer! Thank God California is looking out for me. Otherwise how would I know not to lick it?
IMG_20231020_084021720_HDR.jpg
 
172andyou said:
Did you not read the study? Or not understand it? I'm not sure what you are asking, because it's very clearly stated. They measured lead blood levels and measured the mental deficits that resulted. Higher lead resulted in higher deficits.
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So, without the lead removal from auto fuel, we’d be even stupider today? There must be some other larger factor at play because I feel we’re going backwards.
 
Jim K said:
I'm not worried about avgas.... look at the warning on my new trailer! Thank God California is looking out for me. Otherwise how would I know not to lick it?
View attachment 121675
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gotta love california...

"This product can expose you to chemicals including Lead, which is known to cause cancer, birth defects, and other reproductive harm"

Parse that sentence... The product can expose you to chemicals. well, duh.

"including lead, which is...", so the other chemicals don't cause cancer, birth defects, and other reproductive harm?

(and who knew that Lead can cause reproductive harm?)

maybe they meant "...chemicals, including Lead, which are known"
 
Morgan3820 said:
So, without the lead removal from auto fuel, we’d be even stupider today? There must be some other larger factor at play because I feel we’re going backwards.
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There’s a million factors so one probably doesn’t make much of a difference.

Anyway, iirc removing lead from paint was also a big deal, because (we were told) little kids ate paint chips. Im sure it happened but am curious if it was 1% of kids or .01% or ?
 
Morgan3820 said:
So, without the lead removal from auto fuel, we’d be even stupider today? There must be some other larger factor at play because I feel we’re going backwards.
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Supposedly, mental incompetence and declining birth rate among the ruling class resulting from lead intake are believed to have been major factors in the decline of the Roman Empire.

But would we be less stupid today without lead removal? That's something difficult to discern from casual observation given the pervasive sensationalism in today's media.
 
asicer said:
Supposedly, mental incompetence and declining birth rate among the ruling class resulting from lead intake are believed to have been major factors in the decline of the Roman Empire.

But would we be less stupid today without lead removal? That's something difficult to discern from casual observation given the pervasive sensationalism in today's media.
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I guess all those lead chalices and crystal glasses wouldn't have affected anything..... ;)
 
Bob Noel said:
ok, but is IQ an absolute measure or a relative measure?

"a number representing a person's reasoning ability (measured using problem-solving tests) as compared to the statistical norm or average for their age, taken as 100."

Kind of hard to have everyone get an IQ above 100, isn't it?
Click to expand...

maybe, but it has long been an achieved metric of NC schools to have 85% of the children reading above grade average, there is always hope. It means reading “Dick and Jane” in High School, but so what?
 
Hi everyone.
I predict that some do do birds will eventually find out that the humans / human race is polluting the Planet and need to be removed / exterminated.
I am surprised actually that it not happen already, maybe it did and I do not know about it?
 
bluesideup said:
Hi everyone.
I predict that some do do birds will eventually find out that the humans / human race is polluting the Planet and need to be removed / exterminated.
I am surprised actually that it not happen already, maybe it did and I do not know about it?
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It's a slippery slope for sure. One day it's "let's remove lead from gasoline" and the next it will be "let's kill all humans".
 
bluesideup said:
Hi everyone.
I predict that some do do birds will eventually find out that the humans / human race is polluting the Planet and need to be removed / exterminated.
I am surprised actually that it not happen already, maybe it did and I do not know about it?
Click to expand...
Given humans' global difficulty in cooperating with each other, I think we're doing an adequate job of eliminating ourselves. It may be happening on other planets as well, which could (in addition to other factors) explain why we haven't heard any radio transmissions from extraterrestrial civilizations, let alone any verifiable sightings.
 
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