enjoy life as VRF pilot for sometime or start IFR right away?

Discussion in 'Pilot Training' started by WannFly, Oct 31, 2017.

  1. WannFly

    WannFly En-Route

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    the ink haven't dried on my temporary cert yet but my mind is already wondering....

    in another thread, someone pointed out that we spend so much time learning how to fly the airplane, after getting your certificate you kinda forget how to have fun or why you started down in this path to begin with. I am experiencing this first hand. right now my plans are to visit a bunch of airports just because I can and may be join PnP for a cause. but would it make sense to start IFR right away? if so, here are some questions I am looking to get some answers on:

    1. Typical time it takes? (for budget and I know first hand that it takes as long it takes, took me forever to learn how not to bounce)
    2. any book that I can get started on right away? it is my understanding that IFR basically is a crap load of procedures to learn and follow and fly within the system
    3. How about something like 1 training flight a week and fly just for fun other day /s so that I still get some joy out of flying.
    End game - Angel Flights and fly distant places for vacation

    yes, I am asking for opinions .... go
     
  2. jordane93

    jordane93 Final Approach

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    You can do both at the same time.
     
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  3. kayoh190

    kayoh190 Pattern Altitude

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    As one of a very select few with VRF privileges, I say relax and enjoy it a little!
     
  4. eman1200

    eman1200 Final Approach

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    i'm still VFR and loving it. I may or may not do IFR one day. maybe. if you want it, do it. if you want to wait, wait. this might be the most helpful post ever of all time.
     
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  5. Salty

    Salty Pattern Altitude

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  6. CC268

    CC268 En-Route

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    Straight to ATP or bust bruh
     
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  7. dmspilot

    dmspilot En-Route

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    You may find yourself more motivated and eager to complete the IR once you spend some time "enjoying" VFR, and possibly getting bored of it.
     
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  8. Ryanb

    Ryanb Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    What do you want to do?

    I’d say, get some VFR hours under your belt to the point where you feel comfortable, then begin IFR training. At least that’s what I did.
     
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  9. Bill Jennings

    Bill Jennings Final Approach

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    Where do you live? Mostly clear and a million a lot of the time? Haze a lot of the time?
     
  10. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Now offering reverse discounts.
    Just fly for 50 to 75 hours and enjoy it. Do as much XC time as you can fit in too. You need 50 hours XC before you can do the IFR checkride.

    For books, the Instrument Flying Handbook from the FAA would be a start. Also Bob's "The Complete Advanced Pilot". And Peter Dogan's "Instrument Flight Training Manual"

    And every once and awhile, go on an IFR flight as an observer. Start getting a feel for how it all gels together. Having a few of these done will make what you read and learn make more sense as you take on the knowledge.
     
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  11. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    What could possibly be boring about flying over nodak?

    The IA ticket is one that takes about regulation time for many. Flying a lot helps that as aircraft control becomes somewhat second nature. Get the some or the majority of your cross country time knocked out then maybe do some instrument training to see if it’s your cup of tea.
     
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  12. Bill Jennings

    Bill Jennings Final Approach

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    Or better yet, be a safety pilot for someone.
     
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  13. WannFly

    WannFly En-Route

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    KFAR. haze, cloud, low ceiling , ice, blizzard, thunderstorm... u name it , we have it :d
     
  14. James331

    James331 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    If you're getting "bored" of VFR flying you probably shouldn't be flying or have major case of ADHD or something.
     
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  15. Bill Jennings

    Bill Jennings Final Approach

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    After the PPL I got in my 50hrs XC, and also did an 8 lesson intro to aerobatics course in a Citabria. That was great fun! Then I started to travel a little bit, and had a pretty rough flight home from my first Gastons. I called my instructor the very next day to start instrument.
     
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  16. dmspilot

    dmspilot En-Route

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    Because getting a $100 hamburger when it's clear and a million over and over again is more and more exciting every time.
     
  17. Brad Z

    Brad Z En-Route

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    1) More knowledge is never a bad thing, even if you never file a single IFR flight after getting the rating
    2) No one has ever regretted getting their instrument rating too soon.
    3) Training for the instrument rating doesn't stop you from flying VFR.
    4) Don't try to teach yourself; work with an instructor to determine what things you can do to prepare. There are a lot of bad habits to be picked up.
    5) There are a lot of VFR only pilots who justify why they are VFR only and why the instrument rating is unnecessary/expensive/dangerous/communistic/etc. Do what works for you, not someone else.
    6) There are a lot of instrument rated pilots who scoff at VFR and claim they always file IFR each and every time and to do otherwise is unsafe. It doesn't have to be that way; being instrument rated gives you training and choices.
     
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  18. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Now offering reverse discounts.
    AMEN!!!!
     
  19. eman1200

    eman1200 Final Approach

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  20. Cap'n Jack

    Cap'n Jack Final Approach

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    All of us are different, what works for me may (or may not) work for you.
    I got ~1/2 way through the IFR and than gave it up. Part of that was due to a long distance move, although I could have continued the IFR training if I chose. Other contributing factors were:
    • In winter, if I'm actually using IFR, I am probably in a situation where icing could occur (visible moisture and below freezing)
    • In summer, in IFR, I can't see the thunderstorms.
    XM and ADSB reduce these risks to a large extent. There is also the time and cost of keeping the IFR current. I don't do that sort of flying, where I need more ability to fly in poor visibility.
    Having said all that, the IFR training did improve my skills. But I'm just as happy pointing the nose of the plane at a point on the horizon and going in the direction I want, changing the wind correction (pointing the nose at a different point on the horizon) based on my position relative to landmarks.

    The comments above aren't incorrect...they represent how others fly.
     
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  21. danhagan

    danhagan Cleared for Takeoff

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    Similar situation to Cap'n Jack above.

    Completed all hood time and only needed the long XC and written completed several years ago to finish up. Am in the desert SW, so we literally get ONE (1) flyable IMC day per year (the rest are either ice or thunderstorm). Place I was training at, the rentals started getting pretty unreliable, so I changed gears and bought my own plane. I should have taken a break after the PPL - the IR training isn't very fun ... maybe once completed things change. Am at 750 hours now. I'm not going to attempt completing the rating until my work schedule gets better.
     
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  22. mondtster

    mondtster Pattern Altitude

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    My opinion, go out and fly a little before just rolling into the instrument rating. You need some PIC XC to get the instrument rating anyway, work on that. Maybe take a few trips.

    I think it is important for a pilot to get out on their own and be forced to make a few decisions. If you're mostly flying with an instructor it would be easy for a person to start treating the instructor like a security blanket and never really be able to make a flight without them. I know a few guys who are like that.

    Also, be realistic about the utility of your instrument rating up in Fargo. In the summer you get t-storms and in the winter there's snow and ice, neither of which are really good for instrument flights in light airplanes like your Cherokee. There is some good IMC in the fall and spring and you'd be able to fly then though. I've flown all over this country and a fair amount of Canada without ever needing an IFR clearance. A little patience and planning is all it takes. I do however have an instrument rating and use it from time to time, for what it's worth.
     
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  23. James331

    James331 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Yes, and there are more places and things to do VFR too.

    For example, are you still only landing at airports?




    Are you trying to chase an adrenaline rush or something?
     
  24. dmspilot

    dmspilot En-Route

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    First I have ADHD, then I'm trying to get an adrenaline rush. Are all people who get their instrument ratings adrenaline junkies? WTF are you taking about?
     
  25. James331

    James331 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Did not say that.

    Did say that getting "bored" of VFR flying is a wee bit strange.
     
  26. Brad Z

    Brad Z En-Route

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    One thing that I assumed back when I was VFR only was that IFR meant spending a lot of time in IMC. It wasn't until after I got instrument rated that I realized the fallacy of my assumption:

    I fly in better VMC conditions under IFR, than VFR-only pilots do. I can spend about 45 seconds climbing through a cloud layer and be in nice smooth clear air above. I can get through scattered cumulus layers without busting VFR could-clearance limits. I can see bad weather much better from above. I can take advantage of faster tails winds.

    The nice thing is you can jump back and forth between IFR and VFR. Sure, some places have weather that will minimize your use of IFR in the winter, but if you fly to go places, eventually you'll find yourself with flyable IMC.
     
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  27. jordane93

    jordane93 Final Approach

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    You guys are both wrong. The OP is talking about VRF flying, not VFR. Try to stay on topic please.
     
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  28. Brad Z

    Brad Z En-Route

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    LOL.
     
  29. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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  30. Walboy

    Walboy Line Up and Wait

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    I vote start immediately
     
  31. dmspilot

    dmspilot En-Route

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    Why do people get instrument ratings?
     
  32. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I seem to be having some difficulty locating FARs for VRF flying. Have you got a ref?
     
  33. Sinistar

    Sinistar Line Up and Wait

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    @WannFly, you can now fly....mostly...when you want :) Maybe as you are flying VFR over the coming months, keep track of the times you wanted to fly and couldn't. How many times were truly due to lack of the instrument rating vs other factors (no de-ice equipment, passenger comfort concerns, crosswind landings, etc) At least you'll become more aware of when the rating and experience would have truly been the deciding factor vs something more basic.

    I can tell you love this stuff. Your brain is in training and flying mode. You're not getting any younger. You dig your plane and its always available to you. If you want to start the instrument rating, why not? I'm sure you'll log VFR hours for practice and enjoyment too.
     
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  34. Skyrys62

    Skyrys62 Pattern Altitude

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    He would never cheat on Kate!!
    But I guess he and Citabria could go up as 'friends' ;)

    It's gonna be nice to slow down on the studying and stuff for sure. But I'm with you Wann.... (although still trying to schedule my checkride with apparently the busiest DPE in the universe) I'm already eyeballing some basic IFR stuff. It does indeed look like a lot of studying. Right now I've got a sim setup that will let me play for a while though.

    But @Brad Z summed it up perfectly. And in your area, with that weather, yeah go for it.
    Like you said in #3 - Maybe keep it at a relaxed pace so you don't burn out, mix a lesson or two in between XC's or something. Those combined should build confidence, and (at least to me) more confidence means more relaxed, and relaxed is more fun.
    If I'm reading this question right, you want that confidence and safety. I think that shows a good pilot foundation right there.
    That and a decent bank account lol.
    A friend of mine who has taken me flying, says he shoots practice approaches in VFR quite a bit when he's out farting around (at non-towered I believe). He enjoys it he says.
    If you're going to be flying around to other airports anyway for fun, maybe get a little approach practice at the same time.
     
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  35. kayoh190

    kayoh190 Pattern Altitude

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    For the chicks.
     
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  36. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    It’s sorta tough to say yer just friends once yer inside...
     
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  37. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Even though I am not VRF certificated or rated, I'm sure an instrument rating to your VRF certificate would be very helpful. It is in airplanes anyway. Oh, once a week ok but you'll make better progress at least twice a week or more. Sure go fly awhile VRF and enjoy it but you asked so I say get an instrument rating. Might want to call the FSDO too and what they can do about that VRF certificate. I don't think anyone has that anymore. Maybe they can remove it somehow.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2017
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  38. jordane93

    jordane93 Final Approach

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    You have to look at the FRAs.
     
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  39. James331

    James331 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    To fly IMC.

    Everyone is diffrent, but IFR flying actually is far less entertaining than lots of types of very dynamic flying that's done VFR
     
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  40. Brad Z

    Brad Z En-Route

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    Nope. It’s to go places. Flying IFR maximizes the utility of a plane.
     
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