Engine out on takeoff.. troubleshoot or secure

S

Smashandgo

Pre-Flight
Joined
May 9, 2025
Messages
38
Display Name
Smashandgo
There was another guy a while back that made a similar post to this but it was asking more of a partial engine out vs complete engine out to do. To turn or to go straight, and there are a lot of variables that go into the turn. I’m not asking about that and sorry for making another related post to his.

When batting in the heat of the moment, say a couple hundred feet after lifting off, with no runway remaining and busy roads and power lines in front of you, would you secure or troubleshoot? Obviously while maintaining control of the airplane and going to the best landing area.

Some say secure and fly the thing. Some say there is no minimum altitude to restart. Some say it probably won’t restart either so just plan on landing. I want to know if I need to focus on restart or secure.

I do look at landing areas on Google maps and thoroughly brief before takeoff. Just had this question on top of it. Thank you.
 
Smashandgo said:
There was another guy a while back that made a similar post to this but it was asking more of a partial engine out vs complete engine out to do. To turn or to go straight, and there are a lot of variables that go into the turn. I’m not asking about that and sorry for making another related post to his.

When batting in the heat of the moment, say a couple hundred feet after lifting off, with no runway remaining and busy roads and power lines in front of you, would you secure or troubleshoot? Obviously while maintaining control of the airplane and going to the best landing area.

Some say secure and fly the thing. Some say there is no minimum altitude to restart. Some say it probably won’t restart either so just plan on landing. I want to know if I need to focus on restart or secure.

I do look at landing areas on Google maps and thoroughly brief before takeoff. Just had this question on top of it. Thank you.
Click to expand...
Say I do troubleshoot and don’t have time for secure.. is that fine. Just run the ABC mnemonic but not DE?
 
On takeoff you don't have much time to work. Unless it something really obvious like the mixture or fuel pump, you are committed to finding a landing spot pronto. Carb heat or fuel selector won't matter if you are that low: any change that might be useful will take too long to result in the desired change. In cruise or descent, you have more options and time for things like carb heat to work.
 
rhkennerly said:
200 ft isn’t much time. I’d like to think I’d ride it in. However, you never really know until it happens.
Click to expand...

^^^This^^^

Ah, ain't no time to wonder why. Whoopee! We're all gonna die! (shout out to Country Joe and the Fish).

For me I need to find the largest, softest, and cheapest, place to land.

I experienced this scenario in a two seat QCU Challenger with a student in the front seat (I don't think we were quite 200') many moons ago when the engine got quiet on take-off. Nose down, hard slip, stuck it in a muddy field. Did damage the left landing gear 'cause it didn't want to roll in the mud. Wasn't my plane and the owner was thankful that no one was injured. There was no time to do anything more than pick a spot and, as Larry the cable guy would say, "Git-er-dun" ...
 
KCFO rwy 26 not far off the end of the runway is Imboden Rd which is the Class B (Denver) boundary and N-S powerlines. If I have an engine out, the odds are I'm above the power lines and I don't give a rats' *** about Class B. If I'm not above the power lines, I'll go under them (no other obstacles for 100s of yards) and once again, who cares about Class B.

The insurance company owns the airplane. I get to play with it and pay for everything.
 
Not on takeoff, but scudding along at a few hundred over nothing but a railroad track and trees. One of us pulled the carb heat, the other switched tanks, may or may not have futzed with mag switches or throttle. Engine caught and we went on our way. Most likely carb ice.
 
I had one throw a rod on me at 600-800agl in January. Trust me when I say there isn’t time to troubleshoot, especially when smoke is pouring in the cabin. You maintain adequate airspeed and fly the thing as long as possible.
 
maybe ask the question a slightly different way....instead of 'troubleshoot' or 'secure', ask 'get the plane down safely one way or another' or 'be that courageous guy who did everything he could to solve the problem while augering it into an apartment building'?

but again there are so many different scenarios it's hard to lump them all into one answer.
 
Helps to know the area where you’re taking off. When I had a partial power loss at not-nearly-enough-feet after takeoff, I targeted my already known “path of least destruction” while trying to coax enough power out of it to make it back around to the runway. Fortunately for me, it worked.
 
eman1200 said:
maybe ask the question a slightly different way....instead of 'troubleshoot' or 'secure', ask 'get the plane down safely one way or another' or 'be that courageous guy who did everything he could to solve the problem while augering it into an apartment building'?
Click to expand...

While talking on the radio ... :eek:
 
This is REALLY an interesting question in a Texan 2… ain’t no prop lever, you want it feathered you gotta shut it down.

I’m screwing with EVERYTHING until I can’t, or don’t need to. That’s saved me in cars and boats….
 
Depends on what the engine is giving you. Rough but enough for a positive rate of climb? I'm going to continue to try to gain altitude to increase my options, with a turn-back to the airfield. Rough but holding altitude? Depends on the obstacles. Rough and not able to hold altitude? Best forced landing I can make.

I'm not going to turn off an engine that is still fighting for me.
 
AvNavCom said:
That makes way more sense. I guess I shouldn't post before drinking my coffee. My answer still stands though. If you're low and have an engine fighting for you, why give that up?
Click to expand...
I wasn't replying to you specifically and agree with your point. Not ME rated, so my opinion is worth less than the cup of coffee you're having now
 
Do what you brief before rolling. I think every multi student gets this drilled into their head. If flying a multi, do the Drill (google it, thanks Martin Pauly).

I can’t speak for others, but low to the ground after take off low to the ground is a bad time to start trouble shooting. The OP didn’t really say how low as that can come into your take off brief. But other than looking at either your off field landing spot (single), or in a multi, making sure you can climb above blue line in a single engine climb, just fly the plane.
 
If you lose your engine at 200 feet, you will be on the ground in 10 to 15 seconds. You aren't gonna be doing any checklists. You are going to be 1000% focused on pointing the airplane at the softest spot and flying it there.
 
RyanB said:
I had one throw a rod on me at 600-800agl in January. Trust me when I say there isn’t time to troubleshoot, especially when smoke is pouring in the cabin. You maintain adequate airspeed and fly the thing as long as possible.
Click to expand...
Did it throw a rod and prop stop?
 
Hang 4 said:
Think the OP was talking about a twin?
Click to expand...
I was talking about a complete engine failure in a single engine. I agree, I wouldn’t shut down and secure an engine that is still producing partial power and can maintain altitude. Was more or less asking, no power, should I attempt a restart or cut my losses and secure and shut fuel off.
 
rhkennerly said:
200 ft isn’t much time. I’d like to think I’d ride it in. However, you never really know until it happens.
Click to expand...
Thank you for your response. I think just flying is best like you said, but then again never know until it actually happens.
 
chemgeek said:
On takeoff you don't have much time to work. Unless it something really obvious like the mixture or fuel pump, you are committed to finding a landing spot pronto. Carb heat or fuel selector won't matter if you are that low: any change that might be useful will take too long to result in the desired change. In cruise or descent, you have more options and time for things like carb heat to work.
Click to expand...
In the flight training environment in a C172, a floor to door check can be done in seconds. Fuel, air and spark. You are right when you say it would take time for the changes to actually make a difference. Fuel pump could be an immediate fix but we don’t have that luxury in the older 172.

Say I didn’t run the floor to door and attempt to restart, would you fumble around trying to turn off fuel and spark?
 
Daleandee said:
^^^This^^^

Ah, ain't no time to wonder why. Whoopee! We're all gonna die! (shout out to Country Joe and the Fish).

For me I need to find the largest, softest, and cheapest, place to land.

I experienced this scenario in a two seat QCU Challenger with a student in the front seat (I don't think we were quite 200') many moons ago when the engine got quiet on take-off. Nose down, hard slip, stuck it in a muddy field. Did damage the left landing gear 'cause it didn't want to roll in the mud. Wasn't my plane and the owner was thankful that no one was injured. There was no time to do anything more than pick a spot and, as Larry the cable guy would say, "Git-er-dun" ...
Click to expand...
I like the Larry the Cable guy quote.

In all reality, not stalling and landing her is the most important, like you said. You even had to slip it in in order to make it. Would trying to turn off fuel and spark, minimize the chances of fire on landing in that scenario, or is there just simply no time?
 
Tools said:
This is REALLY an interesting question in a Texan 2… ain’t no prop lever, you want it feathered you gotta shut it down.

I’m screwing with EVERYTHING until I can’t, or don’t need to. That’s saved me in cars and boats….
Click to expand...
I’ve thought this too. Try your hardest until you can’t. Say you burn up time flying the airplane and focusing on your landing area, while attempting to fix the issue. Big deal if I don’t get the systems secured right before landing, if it doesn’t restart?
 
AvNavCom said:
Depends on what the engine is giving you. Rough but enough for a positive rate of climb? I'm going to continue to try to gain altitude to increase my options, with a turn-back to the airfield. Rough but holding altitude? Depends on the obstacles. Rough and not able to hold altitude? Best forced landing I can make.

I'm not going to turn off an engine that is still fighting for me.
Click to expand...
With a partial scenario, I had partial but barely able to maintain altitude one time after takeoff. Turned an early crosswind, realized I could make the opposite runway just fine. Didn’t want to press my luck and try a full pattern at 500.
 
Ed Haywood said:
If you lose your engine at 200 feet, you will be on the ground in 10 to 15 seconds. You aren't gonna be doing any checklists. You are going to be 1000% focused on pointing the airplane at the softest spot and flying it there.
Click to expand...
And not troubleshooting and possibly losing control of the aircraft, because that could take your attention off of focusing landing at the softest spot. What about 1000% accepting landing at that spot, focusing on that, and turning off mags and fuel?
 
RyanB said:
Nope, ran like a sick dog on 3-cyls, partial power loss.
Click to expand...
That’s better than completely gone I bet. Thank you for your response. Did you bring it around the pattern or land opposite direction?
 
The number one priority is don't stall. If you are going to crash be in controlled flight up until the point you do or to quote Bob Hoover "fly as far into the crash as you can"
 
The thing that is going to aid you the most is having the fuel valve in the off position before the airplane contacts the ground or anything else. You are at least doing what can be done to slow or stop the ability of the gasoline flowing into the engine compartment. If I lose the engine at 100' after a bang first thing I am going to do is turn that valve.
 
Some of this stuff, as mentioned about the Texan, is going to be airplane specific. When I started flying a cub, one of my primary concerns was fire, because on a lot of them more or less the gas tank is above your lap. But doing some research and knock on wood, fires are really rare in cub crashes. I attributed that primarily and by guessing to the fact that they don't have an electrical system, and that the carb is on the bottom where it doesn't drop on anything. Reading the above, it's occurring to me that the fuel is REALLY easy to shut off in an emergency. Where as with a PA-28, it's going to be a bit of a PITA to reach down and spin the thing around.
 
Smashandgo said:
That’s better than completely gone I bet. Thank you for your response. Did you bring it around the pattern or land opposite direction?
Click to expand...
Any power is better than none for sure. Yep, brought it around the pattern.
 
write-stuff said:
At 200-300 feet, you have no time for anything other than to lower the nose to prevent a stall, power out, and pitch for a landing attitude/configuration straight ahead.
Click to expand...
For total engine failure, I totally agree. Partial engine failures are a lot more interesting. My own experience was not on take-off, but at about 600AGL on a sunny-day flight in a Citabria. I had enough power to barely maintain altitude, but the gauges were telling me that an engine failure was 100% going to happen. I just didn't have enough information to estimate *when* it was going to happen. The choice I faced was to put it down in a farmer's field right there and then, or see if the engine was able keep me airborne long enough to find an airstrip of some description. It wasn't obvious which was the safer option. As it turns out, I was able to locate a crop-duster strip and put it down with a blown cylinder, bubbling cowling paint, and oil blacker than a politician's soul. I was fine, and after a little love from a mechanic, so was my plane, so I guess that was the right call.

I really think that partial engine failure scenarios are relatively neglected in pilot training. They're much more interesting from an ADM standpoint.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top