Electric assist biking

M

MauleSkinner

Touchdown! Greaser!
Joined
Oct 25, 2005
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Wichita, KS
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MauleSkinner
Starting to figure out my electric assist bike and how best to operate it. Today’s ride was 12.27 miles in an hour’s riding. I set the electric assist on level 3 (out of 5), which provides a fair amount of help on the uphills but pretty much drops out by the time I’m up to 14.5 mph, which is pretty easy to do with any downgrade at all, since I’m not exhausted by getting to the top.

The battery indicator was showing 100% until about a block from the house, when it dropped to 90% charge indication.

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Heart rate data from my Oura ring looks pretty impressive, with 32 minutes in heart zone 5, but I need to figure out how to set the zones more accurately. It’s using an age-based formula, which I don’t think is accurate. I think most of it was more along the lines of zone 3, as I was nose breathing for almost the entire ride and not gasping for every molecule of oxygen I could find. ;)

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All in all, the electric assist makes it a lot more enjoyable, so it’ll probably result in more benefit than pure pedaling for a while.
 
You can always download Strava which supports the Oura ring and allows customizable heart rate settings.

I will say as an early-50s cyclist, a 143bpm average would be about the low end of my zone 3 (aerobic). I would be able to hold a conversation at that level of output. Below is my most recent charity ride data for comparison.

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My son bought a HeyBike not long before he died. He had his right leg amputated just below the knee so he needed the electric assist. I inherited it from him and I use it to tool around the airport.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Starting to figure out my electric assist bike and how best to operate it. Today’s ride was 12.27 miles in an hour’s riding. I set the electric assist on level 3 (out of 5), which provides a fair amount of help on the uphills but pretty much drops out by the time I’m up to 14.5 mph
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Is the pedal assist torque-sensing? Or is it cadence-sensing?
(if you notice it dropping out like that, I'm guessing that it is cadence)

Since you seem to be more interested in your heart rate vs going places, you might want to give torque-sensing a try.
 
asicer said:
Is the pedal assist torque-sensing? Or is it cadence-sensing?
(if you notice it dropping out like that, I'm guessing that it is cadence)

Since you seem to be more interested in your heart rate vs going places, you might want to give torque-sensing a try.
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It’s cadence sensing.

It’s not that I’m more interested in heart rate, it’s just a metric that I’ve found I can understand and control to get the benefits I want for the ride, the endurance, and therefore the distances. I suspect that torque sensing would have a negative effect.
 
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Watch out for us passing cars cutting you off as we pull back in front of you. I, for one, am not used to how much faster you peddlers are moving and have misjudged the spacing required to pass you with oncoming traffic closing ahead. :oops:
 
Heart rate is a great metric; you’ll figure out what fits you pretty quick.

@flyingron I’m so sorry about your son. I hope riding his bike brings a smile to your heart.
 
dtuuri said:
Watch out for us passing cars cutting you off as we pull back in front of you. I, for one, am not used to how much faster you peddlers are moving and have misjudged the spacing required to pass you with oncoming traffic closing ahead. :oops:
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In other words, treat every cager as if they are trying to kill you
 
dtuuri said:
...I, for one, am not used to how much faster you peddlers are moving and have misjudged the spacing...
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I'm an e-bike hold out still preferring the commute workout but I can see myself buying one at some point. I hadn't thought about this point but it's extremely true. I've had three close calls so far where someone turned before their bumper had even passed me! One could have been very serious as I had to bailout into the woods. I still don't know how I walked away from that one. I think about it every time I ride by that spot.
 
MauleSkinner said:
It’s cadence sensing.

It’s not that I’m more interested in heart rate, it’s just a metric that I’ve found I can understand and control to get the benefits I want for the ride, the endurance, and therefore the distances. I suspect that torque sensing would have a negative effect.
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I would think it's the other way around, especially if you're looking for a workout. Cadence sensing lets you maintain speed with very little effort, as long as you keep the pedals turning. With torque sensing you have to be actually pushing on the pedals. Not that I'm an expert, I just got my first ebike yesterday, though my wife got one a year ago. Hers is cadence sensing, mine is torque, and I find torque much more natural.
 
Dana said:
I would think it's the other way around, especially if you're looking for a workout. Cadence sensing lets you maintain speed with very little effort, as long as you keep the pedals turning. With torque sensing you have to be actually pushing on the pedals. Not that I'm an expert, I just got my first ebike yesterday, though my wife got one a year ago. Hers is cadence sensing, mine is torque, and I find torque much more natural.
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if I could push the pedals harder all the way to the top of the hill, I wouldn’t need the assist. Cadence sensing allows me to shift down when I need help, and shift up and push when I don’t.
 
MauleSkinner said:
if I could push the pedals harder all the way to the top of the hill, I wouldn’t need the assist. Cadence sensing allows me to shift down when I need help, and shift up and push when I don’t.
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I don't know what the actual pedal torque vs. motor power relationship is. I'm finding that unlike a conventional bike where I would downshift to go uphill and upshift to go faster downhill or on the flat, on the ebike I tend to shift according to how fast I want to go and adjust the pedal assist for how hard I want to pedal, or to help going uphill while maintaining the same speed. So if I come to a hill and want to maintain the same speed, I just pedal a bit harder and the torque sensor increases the motor torque, too. It feels very natural, and if that uphill push makes me pedal harder than I want to, I just bump the assist up.
 
Mahneuvers said:
I'm an e-bike hold out ….
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We usually set up rentals or tours for vacations. My wife rides a Trek e-bike on any charity rides we do over 30mi on so she can stay with me on the course.

I see one in my future, but it’s in my post-65 years. B
 
I have noticed an increase in e-bikes here in town, mostly illegals and homeless are using them. And of course they are on the wrong side of the road, ignoring red lights, stop signs and common sense. Just this morning I went to make a right turn on red, signal on, and an e-bike passed me on my right, swerving to miss me then showing me his IQ with a single finger.

Ok, rant over. Question, is there a mountain e-bike worth having?
 
Zeldman said:
is there a mountain e-bike worth having?
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Probably depends on what you want from it. The big thing now seems to be the "fat tire ebikes" like the Radster Trail I have. It's more than capable on rough forest roads and Jeep trails, but it's too heavy (around 70#) and insufficiently agile to be a hardcore mountain bike for technical singletrack trails. There are electric mountain bikes, but they're a lot more expensive and tend to have much smaller batteries than the mixed-use fat tire bikes.

Yesterday I rode from the house to the airport, about 17 miles round trip, half rough forest road and half pavement.
 
I’m finding that it’s easier to “just go for a ride” with the electric assist. By the time I had time to ride today, I was on the verge of being overheated (which usually involves a certain amount of dehydration for me.) spent a little time cooling off and hydrating, and decided to give it a go.

I haven’t needed it yet, but it’s good to know I can increase the assist or just use throttle to get home if it gets to be too much.
 
E-Mountain bikes are super fun. Don't get behind the plane though - it's easy to get going faster than your skills.

If you are worried about overtaking cars, I highly recommend something like a Garmin Varia. It will give you enough time to either GTFO in the case of a huge truck or look back and make eye contact if you're worried the driver hasn't seen you.
 
Zeldman said:
I have noticed an increase in e-bikes here in town, mostly illegals and homeless are using them. And of course they are on the wrong side of the road, ignoring red lights, stop signs and common sense. Just this morning I went to make a right turn on red, signal on, and an e-bike passed me on my right, swerving to miss me then showing me his IQ with a single finger.

Ok, rant over. Question, is there a mountain e-bike worth having?
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and me with luggage in tow at RR ;)
 
I must be getting old, but I was slightly disappointed when I showed up to pick up my kids at school the other day. A young boy (probably 10-12yrs old) was zooming around the playground area on his e-bike and I thought "man what's the point", lol. He wasn't hurting anything, just making laps around the equipment with no kids in sight, but he wasn't pedaling hardly at all. It just seems like an electric dirt bike at that point. I wouldn't get my kids an e-bike to replace their bicycles, simply so they can learn to use gearing and ingrain that struggle of making it up steep hills with physical effort. Same with electric scooters and such. Once you hit an age where the amount of effort is so much that it limits the type of riding, then the e-bike makes sense.
 
SoonerAviator said:
I must be getting old, but I was slightly disappointed when I showed up to pick up my kids at school the other day. A young boy (probably 10-12yrs old) was zooming around the playground area on his e-bike and I thought "man what's the point", lol. He wasn't hurting anything, just making laps around the equipment with no kids in sight, but he wasn't pedaling hardly at all. It just seems like an electric dirt bike at that point. I wouldn't get my kids an e-bike to replace their bicycles, simply so they can learn to use gearing and ingrain that struggle of making it up steep hills with physical effort. Same with electric scooters and such. Once you hit an age where the amount of effort is so much that it limits the type of riding, then the e-bike makes sense.
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I agree…they’ve become is a “motorized” thing not a “pedal” thing for a lot of people. While motorized toys can be good things for some kids, they need to pedal a bike.
 
DJTorrente said:
The pedals and calling it "assist" lets the mfrs. avoid "motorcycle" regulations.
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I mountain bike a bit, and I have no problem with the technology in that application, especially as we all get older and can't maintain those climbs and tough obstacles quite as well. It does a lot to help extend the rides for people who need it. I just don't get using it as the "primary" propulsion for a kid who should have plenty of energy lol. My kids have electric ATVs that they ride around the house a bit (only good for about 30 minutes/charge these days), but that's an application that wasn't replacing pedals. Guess I've reached the "get off my lawn" phase!
 
I'm finding that I'm getting about the same level of exercise on the ebike as I would hiking, but instead of covering maybe 3 miles in an hour and a half of hiking, I'm doing 15-20 miles on the ebike.

My bike is a class 3, which means it will go up to 20 mph using throttle only (though I don't); pedaling is required to go faster, and at 28 mph the pedal assist stops.
 
Dana said:
My bike is a class 3, which means it will go up to 20 mph using throttle only (though I don't); pedaling is required to go faster, and at 28 mph the pedal assist stops.
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I’d try the highest level of assist to see where it stops, but my gearing is only good for about 22 or 23 mph pedaling, so I probably wouldn’t be able to get fast enough to find out.
 
Reverse LeMond "it never hurts less you just go slower" lol

Honestly I think the best use case is as a tool to let people of differing abilities to ride together. I took a cycling trip with some old bike teammates to the Basque mountains and ebikes made it possible for the wives to join us. It was pretty cool being able to share 4 and 5 hour rides through the mountains with them.
 
MauleSkinner said:
I’d try the highest level of assist to see where it stops, but my gearing is only good for about 22 or 23 mph pedaling, so I probably wouldn’t be able to get fast enough to find out.
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Cutting out pedal assist at 28 mph (25 mph in some states) is a requirement of class 3 regardless of the assist setting (it's 20 mph for class 2). On my bike I can reach 28 at PAS 3 out of 5, 2 on a slight downhill, but I'm pedaling pretty fast at that speed... I've been thinking about a larger front or smaller rear sprocket as I never use the bottom gears.
 
Dana said:
Cutting out pedal assist at 28 mph (25 mph in some states) is a requirement of class 3 regardless of the assist setting (it's 20 mph for class 2). On my bike I can reach 28 at PAS 3 out of 5, 2 on a slight downhill, but I'm pedaling pretty fast at that speed... I've been thinking about a larger front or smaller rear sprocket as I never use the bottom gears.
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Are you trying to go faster?
Unless it's a road bike I'd recommend against that; most upright e-bikes aren't well designed for speed.
 
Hengelo said:
Are you trying to go faster?
Unless it's a road bike I'd recommend against that; most upright e-bikes aren't well designed for speed.
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No, 28mph is fast enough, though I might reach slightly higher speed on a steep downhill. I just want a slightly slower pedaling cadence at that speed, or at 25 on level ground.
 
About 2 1/2 years ago, I bought a used Aventon Aventure e-bike for $900.

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I didn’t need a mountain bike, but I with 4” road tires installed and inflated to maximum 20psi it has a wonderfully smooth ride over road irregularities. It has 5 levels of assist, and here in the rolling foothills of the Appalachians I spend most of my time in levels 1 & 2, with occasional help from level 3 on really steep grades. Ridden like that, it has roughly 40 miles of range. The components are not real high grade, but my only recurring issue is the cheap hydraulic brakes that seem to need periodic bleeding.

I get a more strenuous and rewarding workout on my Cannondale Synapse, but the Aventure is just more fun and comfortable and I can dial in whatever assist I need to still get a decent cardio workout. We bought Karen a new Aventon Level 2 and as others suggested that allows us to ride together in spite of different fitness levels.

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FastEddieB said:
We bought Karen a new Aventon Level 2 and as others suggested that allows us to ride together in spite of different fitness levels.
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That’s one of my reasons for the electric assist as well…when we were first married, I was hanging back to let my wife keep up. She’s had more time to work on fitness than I have lately, so now she’s waiting for me, which is difficult for her. ;)
 
I am a recent convert to electric-assist bikes. I bought a $500 Totem (from Amazon) a couple months back and thoroughly enjoy riding again. I use level 2 (of 5) assist to help me keep the speed up to 10-11 MPH. With my regular bike I usually cruised at 6 or 7. So I get to go farther, a bit faster and still get a mild workout. I do not use the twist-grip throttle at all - other than a couple times to see how fast it would go. It gets up to 21 MPH and pretty much stays there. If I want full power assist, I can hop on my Honda Rebel and go 50+ MPH all afternoon (but seldom ride that anymore). I much prefer the e-bike at level 2. We have no hills here at the beach and I just have a good time riding - so level 2 works for me. I can have an hour or so of a fun ride and still get a mild workout.

I have since added a larger, more comfortable seat for my ol' fat *ss and topped it with a sheepskin seat cover.

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FastEddieB said:
About 2 1/2 years ago, I bought a used Aventon Aventure e-bike for $900....
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I need tires like that as I might not have gotten a flat the flat I did on my commute in this morning :-( My bad for riding in the gutter since I was running late, no bike lane, traffic was heavy and I was trying not to make it worse.
 
I bought an eBike last year (Also an Aventon Aventure) and I love it. Makes biking much more enjoyable, since I have a muscle disease that makes my leg muscles abnormally tight, and trying to climb hills is not fun. I barely use any assist on the level, but benefit from it greatly on the uphills. I bought my wife an ebike as well, and we've been using them a lot. They are more of an activity than exercise.

I'm worried that the people that use ebikes like motorcycles will ruin it for the rest of us. I don't go much faster than a normal pedal bike, and always slow down when I pass people walking. I've seen people just holding the throttle down and going close to 30 mph way too close to pedestrians. My bike has a throttle that I use when my legs need a break, but thats about the only time I use it.
 
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