Economical x-country bird.

iamtheari said:
….The test will cover Literature (what does that long word on the red octagon mean?),….
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This one?


15775bb34c2819d228bda214834fedf1.jpg
 
RussR said:
I don't know what they sell for, but I've always been impressed with the fuel economy and speed of the LongEZ series of planes. Of course, you're not going to bring much with you, but you didn't specify a passenger or baggage requirement...
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One of the most efficient cross-country cruisers ever. And one of my personal favorites, though I've never flown one (unless X-Plane counts). But it does need long runways. And beware, you're buying somebody else's decades old project. It could be built better, or worse, than a certified aircraft. These and other experimentals can be great airplanes but require a higher level of owner involvement in their upkeep.
 
Pinecone said:
That panel is worth a LOT. Plus the 201 windows, 201 windsheild, Lopresti cowl, one piece fiberglas belly pan.

It is pretty much a 201 with glass panel.
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Except they're asking more for it than a 201 with a glass panel...
 
Pinecone said:
That is fine when cruising at 3000 feet. But from 17,000, I don't want to do the descent and climb back up.
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I had a few longer flights in a turbo plane and I'd still plan 3 hr legs. People are different though, and that's cool. For going somewhere relatively fast and relatively economically I'd still say the Mooney is the best bet. And this comes from someone who traditionally is not a Mooney type. Mooney J at that.
 
Country Flier said:
Except they're asking more for it than a 201 with a glass panel...
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Most Js with glass are G1000s which, charitably, is an etch a sketch compared to a G3X w/G5, GFC500, and GTNs. They’re also heavier than Fs so UL drops and the speed differential is less than 5kts in cruise. But for kicks and grins, here’s an MSE at $195K.

www.gmaxamericanaircraft.com

1993 MOONEY M20J MSE For Sale in

1993 MOONEY M20J MSE For Sale in at www.gmaxamericanaircraft.com. Fitted with a upgraded A3B6 engine (Factory New when installed and currently undergoing overhaul). The A3B6 has the two independent magneto configuration as opposed to the A3B6(D) which has the single drive dual magneto found on...
www.gmaxamericanaircraft.com www.gmaxamericanaircraft.com

I know where I’d drop my money between those Mooneys.

I like Jimmy Garrison’s mindset: an speed mod’d and upgraded E/F is a better all around performer than J, especially if the argument is mid-body vs short body being the primary difference.
 
TCABM said:
Most Js with glass are G1000s which, charitably, is an etch a sketch compared to a G3X w/G5, GFC500, and GTNs. They’re also heavier than Fs so UL drops and the speed differential is less than 5kts in cruise. But for kicks and grins, here’s an MSE at $195K.

www.gmaxamericanaircraft.com

1993 MOONEY M20J MSE For Sale in

1993 MOONEY M20J MSE For Sale in at www.gmaxamericanaircraft.com. Fitted with a upgraded A3B6 engine (Factory New when installed and currently undergoing overhaul). The A3B6 has the two independent magneto configuration as opposed to the A3B6(D) which has the single drive dual magneto found on...
www.gmaxamericanaircraft.com www.gmaxamericanaircraft.com

I know where I’d drop my money between those Mooneys.

I like Jimmy Garrison’s mindset: an speed mod’d and upgraded E/F is a better all around performer than J, especially if the argument is mid-body vs short body being the primary difference.
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LOL, point to the most ridiculous outlier price to (try/fail) make your case! Um yeah.

And OP, as someone pointed out above a cheap 320 Lancair is probably your best bet for everything but payload.
 
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Country Flier said:
LOL, point to the most ridiculous outlier price to (try/fail) make your case! Um yeah.

And OP, as someone pointed out above a cheap 320 Lancair is probably your best bet for everything but payload.
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Price is irrelevant other than finding two comparavly priced M20s, one F, one J and now that I think about it, the G1000 was only for the Bravos and Ovations, so glass in any J is going to be retrofit.

But I digress; here’s a ‘97 J at $230K which seems top of pricing, so $195K isn’t that much of an outlier.

www.controller.com

1997 MOONEY M20J MSE For Sale in Lompoc, California

1997 MOONEY M20J MSE For Sale in Lompoc, California at Controller.com. I've owned N29FM for 9 years. The airframe has 1925 hrs and the engine was completely overhauled at 1615 hrs. Prop overhauled 138 hrs ago. Everything works! SPEED is the name of this airplane--185 mph on 10 gal/hr. I'm...
www.controller.com www.controller.com

There’s a half dozen or more at $195K asking with $135-150K appearing to be ‘reasonable’ pricing
 
Country Flier said:
Except they're asking more for it than a 201 with a glass panel...
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Some in the Mooney world prefer an F with speed mods over a J.

Dunno. I went to 252/Encore. 175 KTAS at 10.1 GPH. 104 gallons of fuel (Monroy tanks), so over 8 hours range. Can put in 2 people, FULL fuel and 200 pounds for luggage or another person.
 
iamtheari said:
I've already dedicated my life to being the Grand Arbiter of Driving Licenses. If you want to drive, you will have to convince me that you deserve a license. The test will cover Literature (what does that long word on the red octagon mean?), Choreography (how do I know it's my turn to go at a four-way stop?--I already wrote the textbook for this course), and Geometry (what does it really mean to drive within the lane?) and the pass rate will be substantially lower than the current system.

But I don't mind if the driving license backlog gets worse while I enforce the new laws requiring you to invest in at least an iPhone 8 camera before you place an ad to sell a car or airplane that you think is worth more than the house I grew up in. :)
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How about teaching the difference between merge and yield?
 
TCABM said:
Most Js with glass are G1000s which, charitably, is an etch a sketch compared to a G3X w/G5, GFC500, and GTNs. They’re also heavier than Fs so UL drops and the speed differential is less than 5kts in cruise.
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No Js have a 1000, those were only factory installations (Ovation and Acclaims). Only G500s and now G3X.
 
Racerx said:
How about teaching the difference between merge and yield?
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And which car has the right away. Hint, it is NOT the car whose lane is going away.

Also the difference between Stop and Yield. So many don't stop or yield at a stop sign, but stop at a yield sign.
 
Pinecone said:
And which car has the right away. Hint, it is NOT the car whose lane is going away.

Also the difference between Stop and Yield. So many don't stop or yield at a stop sign, but stop at a yield sign.
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And related, how to navigate a traffic circle. No you don’t come to a stop waiting for the circle to be clear of traffic.

Or turn lanes, you don’t slow down to enter a turn lane that’s 100s of feet long.
 
MooneyDriver78 said:
And related, how to navigate a traffic circle. No you don’t come to a stop waiting for the circle to be clear of traffic.

Or turn lanes, you don’t slow down to enter a turn lane that’s 100s of feet long.
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Don't get me started on traffic circles, or 'roud-abouts' in my neck of the woods. They are relatively new to my area and at least one third of drivers still want to treat them as a 4 way stop. With my racing background it takes all my will to keep from bump drafting the car in front. :rolleyes:
 
A Comanche 250 with Tip Tanks would be perfect for this. With tips you have 86 gallons usable, 145-150 kts (10K ft 65% HP), burning 13-14 (100* ROP) gal an hour a solid 5.5 - 6.0 hrs with 45 min reserve. Full fuel useful load on mine is 660 lbs. Depending on wind and where you are starting from in Washington and landing in South Dakota you may be able to make it in one hop. Seattle to Sioux falls is just under 8 hrs, Spokane to Rapid City is 4.5 hrs which is very doable non-stop. Finding one under $80K now a days may be the big issue.
 
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MRC01 said:
I liked the Mooney M20Js that I've flown. That's compared to my 172 Superhawk so take it with a grain of salt. But if I were getting a cross-country cruiser the M20J would be on my short list. Something like 140 to 150 knots at 10 gph, a simple reliable IO-360 engine, and fun to fly.

The only problem is, you're buying a plane born 40 years ago with all the deferred maintenance from its prior owners. Do a thorough pre-buy, scrutinize the logs and budget for the unexpected.

PS: nix that, I don't think the M20J is any faster than the Cardinal or Arrow that you mention. But then you ain't gonna find something faster at $80k.
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I have a 64 Mooney M20E and I love it. I have about $70k in it after 4 annuals and some upgrades. I cruise LOP 140 TAS at 8 GPH at 10k altitude. 4 hours is about 34-36 gallons used and about 540 NM without wind. I routinely fly 375 NM with 10-20 kt headwinds in 3.3 hours +/- and 26 gal of fuel. I can use grass strips over 1800 feet with a good margin of safety, but it is best to be on your game when you do. For me it is a perfect match.
 
William Pete Hodges said:
I have a 64 Mooney M20E and I love it. I have about $70k in it after 4 annuals and some upgrades. I cruise LOP 140 TAS at 8 GPH at 10k altitude. 4 hours is about 34-36 gallons used and about 540 NM without wind. I routinely fly 375 NM with 10-20 kt headwinds in 3.3 hours +/- and 26 gal of fuel. I can use grass strips over 1800 feet with a good margin of safety, but it is best to be on your game when you do. For me it is a perfect match.
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That is an Interesting data point. My 1975 Arrow II is only about 5 knots slower at similar fuel burn. I would have thought the speed difference to be greater. I wonder if going back to a two blade prop would make up the differnce?
 
Morgan3820 said:
That is an Interesting data point. My 1975 Arrow II is only about 5 knots slower at similar fuel burn. I would have thought the speed difference to be greater. I wonder if going back to a two blade prop would make up the differnce?
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That seems a bit slow for an E. Should be faster than F, which will true at 148 @ 10k and 8.6 GPH.
 
Morgan3820 said:
That is an Interesting data point. My 1975 Arrow II is only about 5 knots slower at similar fuel burn. I would have thought the speed difference to be greater. I wonder if going back to a two blade prop would make up the differnce?
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That’s a tad slow for the typical Mooney, but this is the reason I suggested what I did in my previous post. You’re going to have to buy an airplane that is a LOT faster than an Arrow to make an improvement significant enough for the OP to see. In the sub $80k market, that is likely only to happen in an E/AB.

Despite all the derision that Arrows often get, they’re decent at what they do.
 
Warmi said:
80k will get you a lot of Southwest tickets …GA planes are for recreation.
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That’s good advice for someone whose mission is served by Southwest and whose decisions are primarily limited by dollars.
 
iamtheari said:
That’s good advice for someone whose mission is served by Southwest and whose decisions are primarily limited by dollars.
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And practicability and safety … it is much quicker and safer that way , especially over the Rockies.
 
Warmi said:
And practicability and safety … it is much quicker and safer that way , especially over the Rockies.
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The OP's airplane ownership experience suggests that he can make a reasonably good decision based on his own weights for the convenience, speed, safety, and cost factors. It's not clear if he's flown the Seattle-to-Sioux Falls route before, but at least for me that route is doable by GA as long as the other factors are given appropriate consideration. There are people who won't fly that route without multiple engines burning Jet A at FL350 or higher. There are people who happily fly that route at least twice every year in Cubs.

If you want to focus on the expense, then the $80,000 purchase price isn't what you should compare to airline tickets, because you can sell an airplane after a couple years but airline tickets don't tend to hold their resale value. The best airline itinerary from KSEA to KFSD is Delta or United. American is possible but doubles the flight distance by going all the way to Dallas for the layover. For the search I just ran, they're all $750-1,200 round trip depending on which times you go. I'll ignore airport parking, checked bag fees, and the like. If you fly direct VFR in an Arrow, you're looking at 15-17 hours round trip. I flew my Arrow for about $100/hour but figure $150/hour now, so call it $2,500 round trip. I'm assuming that the OP really wants to own an airplane, so the fixed costs of ownership like insurance, hangar, and annual inspections are not avoidable by taking the airlines.

If you're not traveling alone, the financial side of the equation rapidly dissolves and you are mostly weighing convenience and life experience against safety. I don't like to fault people for making an informed decision with their own weights for those things. Uninformed decisions are a different matter, but the average POA member is here because he or she wants to make informed decisions about flying.

To your point, not only GA but all of life boils down to recreation on some level. As a custom license plate I parked next to at my first real job put it, YDOUWRK?
 
Definitely not an AN-2 a gallon a minute at 60 mph.
 
I fly a 1955 F35 bonanza. 140-145kts at 9-9.5gph. 1050lb useful load. I just upgraded my tip tanks to 20gal BDS from 15 gal. I can carry 100 gallons. I’ve made the trip from Puerto Rico to FL non stop a few times and now I won’t have to stop on the way back with a headwind. Calm wind range a little over 1100 miles with 10 gallons usable reserve.
 
iamtheari said:
I've already dedicated my life to being the Grand Arbiter of Driving Licenses. If you want to drive, you will have to convince me that you deserve a license. The test will cover Literature (what does that long word on the red octagon mean?), Choreography (how do I know it's my turn to go at a four-way stop?--I already wrote the textbook for this course), and Geometry (what does it really mean to drive within the lane?) and the pass rate will be substantially lower than the current system.

But I don't mind if the driving license backlog gets worse while I enforce the new laws requiring you to invest in at least an iPhone 8 camera before you place an ad to sell a car or airplane that you think is worth more than the house I grew up in. :)
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The biggest rule - if the car behind you is closer than the car in front of you, MOVE OVER!!
 
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Without upsetting the Mooney folks lol maybe a turbo arrow 3 or 4? For me personally, arrows, moneys etc just too cramped tho for more than a 3 hours a leg.
 
masloki said:
That seems a bit slow for an E. Should be faster than F, which will true at 148 @ 10k and 8.6 GPH.
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You all are correct, I am flying LOP at 60% power. 8 gph LOP X 15 = 120 hp / 200 = 60 % power. At this power setting it is impossible to damage my engine with improper leaning. I chose this power setting for that reason. I can cruise faster at a higher fuel burn, but I mostly choose not to. I have cruised at 150+ kts, but I don't need to be that fast to meet my flying goals most of the time.
 
William Pete Hodges said:
You all are correct, I am flying LOP at 60% power. 8 gph LOP X 15 = 120 hp / 200 = 60 % power. At this power setting it is impossible to damage my engine with improper leaning. I chose this power setting for that reason. I can cruise faster at a higher fuel burn, but I mostly choose not to. I have cruised at 150+ kts, but I don't need to be that fast to meet my flying goals most of the time.
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Same for me (although not in a Mooney and my Comanche doesn't go near 8 gph - maybe during taxi lol). My typical trip is a 315 NM non-stop flight. I can power back, lean real hard, and burn around 11-12 gph flying that trip in 2.3 hours. Or, I can push the plane, burn 15 -16 gph and fly that trip in 2.1 hours. If .2 hours really matter for my arrival time, I did something wrong planning the trip.
 
Chrisgoesflying said:
Same for me (although not in a Mooney and my Comanche doesn't go near 8 gph - maybe during taxi lol). My typical trip is a 315 NM non-stop flight. I can power back, lean real hard, and burn around 11-12 gph flying that trip in 2.3 hours. Or, I can push the plane, burn 15 -16 gph and fly that trip in 2.1 hours. If .2 hours really matter for my arrival time, I did something wrong planning the trip.
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My typical trip is 375 NM with a 10-20 kt headwind, which I complete in 3.25 hours or less on 26 gallons of fuel. Cruising at 150 would only save me about 15 minutes, but I'd burn 32-34 gallons instead. That's what my old Cherokee burned in 4 hours with no headwind. I am happy with my bird and my choices.
 
robin ardoin said:
Don't get me started on traffic circles, or 'roud-abouts' in my neck of the woods. They are relatively new to my area and at least one third of drivers still want to treat them as a 4 way stop. With my racing background it takes all my will to keep from bump drafting the car in front. :rolleyes:
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Just use the chrome horn
 
mondtster said:
If it were me and I was limiting myself to $80k I'd probably buy a Vans RV or a turbo Arrow with the high capacity fuel tanks and make up the time difference by going high and making fewer stops.
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I'd love to transport back to 2009 and buy all the Turbo Arrows for $80k as well.
 
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