Dynon Avionics in certificated aircraft

W

Walboy

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Feb 11, 2014
Messages
403
Display Name
Display name:
Walboy
.
 
Last edited:
That's one of the best things I've seen yet... Hopefully the price is something that I can stomach...
 
I fly with it, works great!
 
WOW! that looks interesting. The prices that I'm seeing are inline with a stand alone digital RC Allen attitude indicator.

It looks like about 1/2 an Aspen for way less than half the cost.
 
Last edited:
Walboy said:
Would this allow for complete removal of the vacuum system and instruments and still be IFR legal?

I am very dependent on my heading indicator for situational awareness. What instrument would you put in it's place if the vacuum system is removed?
Click to expand...

I don't think so. I doubt anyone can really say without having the STC paperwork right in front of them, they probably contain all kinds of limitations. The website says it replaces the attitude gryo only.
 
Interesting....

The Dynon EFIS-D10A is the first product to be STC approved. The EFIS-D10A is a full 4” Primary Flight Display that includes attitude, airspeed, altimeter, magnetic heading, turn rate, inclinometer, g-meter, winds, and more. Other capabilities include Angle-of-Attack and internal backup battery.

The initial STC allows the EFIS-D10A to replace the existing primary attitude indicator in Cessna 150, 152, 172 and Piper PA-28 and PA-38 series aircraft with a modern EFIS that contains no moving parts. More aircraft approvals are expected to follow.

Based on demand, Dynon also will design turnkey installation kits for installers that include aircraft-specific panels and mounting equipment. The STC will be available for a nominal price from the EAA. Dynon will sell the EFIS D10A and installation kits for STC installation through selected dealers.​
Unique to this STC, EAA, Dynon, and the FAA worked together to allow the EFIS-D10A to be installed without the traditional Technical Standard Order (TSO) or Parts Manufacturer Approval (PMA) requirement. Dynon’s product is also verified against the recently developed ASTM 3153-15, Standard Specification for verification of Avionics Systems. The EFIS-D10A was flight tested in Oshkosh earlier this year in an EAA Cessna 172M.
​
​





The cost and application process for the STC will be finalized in the coming weeks by EAA. Pricing and availability of Dynon’s EFIS-D10A for this STC will also be available in the coming weeks
Click to expand...
 
It looks like EAA is going to be the STC holder.


What is the pricing and availability of the EFIS-D10A configured for these applications?
Pricing and availability of Dynon’s EFIS-D10A for this STC will be available in the coming weeks.The cost and application process for the STC will be finalized in the coming weeks from EAA. The STC will be available through the EAA.
 
Now to get the D10 EMS approved to sit on the right side of the panel... Awesome!
 
TSO'd Electric DG's are available from Mid-Continent and others. I was looking at them for standby in my experimental, but found a TruTrak instead.

Vacuum sucks! It's more to replace in the certificated world, but the maintenance and reliability gains are worth it.
 
I'd be very skeptical of any supposed "reliability" gains... The worst thing the aviation world did to the vacuum system is to swap wet vacuum pumps for dry ones... My old attitude indicator worked for 44 years until I replaced it with a newer/smaller/lighter version. The original garwin/pesco wet vacuum pumps normally last the life of the engine. The new ones are warranted for 2000 hrs or 10 years!
 
Its amazing to me how many PC boards and boxes fail on transport category aircraft every day. Then again, there's 10 times as many in them.
 
I will have to check this out when I get down to Sun N Fun tomorrow! I know they will have a booth.
 
As others have said this only replaces your vacuum gyro and does not allow removal of your vacuum system for other gauges. Not really that big of an advancement if you ask me. They let you remove one of your least important instruments and replace it with a digital one. Granted most digital displays can do many more functions that a steam gauge panel cannot. I would be more excited if I could remove my airspeed, altimeter, VS, Bank and Yaw, and directional gyro as well. That would be a pretty significant weight savings and panel clean up on smaller certified aircraft.
 
Grum.Man said:
As others have said this only replaces your vacuum gyro and does not allow removal of your vacuum system for other gauges. Not really that big of an advancement if you ask me. They let you remove one of your least important instruments and replace it with a digital one. Granted most digital displays can do many more functions that a steam gauge panel cannot. I would be more excited if I could remove my airspeed, altimeter, VS, Bank and Yaw, and directional gyro as well. That would be a pretty significant weight savings and panel clean up on smaller certified aircraft.
Click to expand...

Shortsighted! Gives excellent backup for several instruments....
 
flyingriki said:
Shortsighted! Gives excellent backup for several instruments....
Click to expand...

Agreed! It is an EFIS replacing a single vacuum gyro. It looks to me like that EFIS includes a magmotometer, AOA provisions, airspeed tapes, altitude tapes, ball, internal GPS in case of several different failure modes and even appears to be a CDI for Nav radios.

That's a lot more than "remove one of your least important instruments"...

https://www.dynonavionics.com/downloads/User_Manuals/EFIS-D10A_Pilot's_User_Guide_Rev_K.pdf


There are thousands of airplanes out there with one Aspen in them, I've got about 15 hours in one. Too expensive for my taste and this Dynon is much cheaper.
 
Man this could be a game changer, I hope the price and everything works out, I'd be a buyer next year for my 185 for sure!
 
182s are just starter DZ ships, no need for anything outside of VFR ops ;)
 
bnt83 said:
Agreed! It is an EFIS replacing a single vacuum gyro. It looks to me like that EFIS includes a magmotometer, AOA provisions, airspeed tapes, altitude tapes, ball, internal GPS in case of several different failure modes and even appears to be a CDI for Nav radios.

That's a lot more than "remove one of your least important instruments"...

https://www.dynonavionics.com/downloads/User_Manuals/EFIS-D10A_Pilot's_User_Guide_Rev_K.pdf


There are thousands of airplanes out there with one Aspen in them, I've got about 15 hours in one. Too expensive for my taste and this Dynon is much cheaper.
Click to expand...

So you are adding redundancy for what reason? Maybe an avid IFR flyer could benefit but an VFR flyer should be able to cope with the loss of any or all of that information. Don't get me wrong it's a step in the right direction for sure. Perhaps best suited for someone with an inoperable AH otherwise I don't see a point in adding it to a 6 pack panel. If my AH fails I would certainly do the upgrade, otherwise I'll spend the money on gas and go flying.
 
Grum.Man said:
So you are adding redundancy for what reason? Maybe an avid IFR flyer could benefit but an VFR flyer should be able to cope with the loss of any or all of that information. Don't get me wrong it's a step in the right direction for sure. Perhaps best suited for someone with an inoperable AH otherwise I don't see a point in adding it to a 6 pack panel. If my AH fails I would certainly do the upgrade, otherwise I'll spend the money on gas and go flying.
Click to expand...


VFR only pilots aren't likely to comprehend the potential impact this has on IFR upgrade equipment costs.
 
thomasdr72 said:
I'd be very skeptical of any supposed "reliability" gains... The worst thing the aviation world did to the vacuum system is to swap wet vacuum pumps for dry ones... My old attitude indicator worked for 44 years until I replaced it with a newer/smaller/lighter version. The original garwin/pesco wet vacuum pumps normally last the life of the engine. The new ones are warranted for 2000 hrs or 10 years!
Click to expand...

There is a lot of evidence about switching out vacuum to electric gyros. Your skepticism is contrary to that evidence and completely anecdotal. care to share the fails?
 
S
bnt83 said:
VFR only pilots aren't likely to comprehend the potential impact this has on IFR upgrade equipment costs.
Click to expand...

Except that a large percentage of fatals are still vfr into IMC. This means an affordable "life insurance" policy would be available for vfr pilots if servos can be installed.

Huge deal. Could save lives.
 
Chip Sylverne said:
S


Except that a large percentage of fatals are still vfr into IMC. This means an affordable "life insurance" policy would be available for vfr pilots if servos can be installed.

Huge deal. Could save lives.
Click to expand...

A fancy display isn't going to save the life of a VFR pilot flying into IFR.
 
I am glad the Dynon folks were able to get the STC through. Considering the part 23 re-write was DOA, this offers an outlet I suppose. The thing about it is we still don't know how much the STC will run, considering it's otherwise the same box as experimental. Having the magnetometer not be integral to the box is a downer though, that adds installation costs, although Dynon says the D10A does have internal magnetometers and the remote one is optional (whereas it suggests the D100 and D6 are required to have the remote mag installed).

An interesting combo would be to replace the DG and AI with two of these boxes one on top of the other, run one in HSI page and the other in PFD page and have yourself a poor man's Aspen Pro with more redundancy. Of course, at that point there's not much in the way of savings going this route over Aspen. The big cost is in the installation labor and like I said, how much blood money Dynon will want for the STC.
 
Grum.Man said:
A fancy display isn't going to save the life of a VFR pilot flying into IFR.
Click to expand...

No, but an autopilot will.
The Dynon has built in autopilot software, all you need to add are servos. I guess you missed the last line about "if servos can be installed".
 
hindsight2020 said:
I am glad the Dynon folks were able to get the STC through. Considering the part 23 re-write was DOA, this offers an outlet I suppose. The thing about it is we still don't know how much the STC will run, considering it's otherwise the same box as experimental. Having the magnetometer not be integral to the box is a downer though, that adds installation costs, although Dynon says the D10A does have internal magnetometers and the remote one is optional (whereas it suggests the D100 and D6 are required to have the remote mag installed).

An interesting combo would be to replace the DG and AI with two of these boxes one on top of the other, run one in HSI page and the other in PFD page and have yourself a poor man's Aspen Pro with more redundancy. Of course, at that point there's not much in the way of savings going this route over Aspen. The big cost is in the installation labor and like I said, how much blood money Dynon will want for the STC.
Click to expand...
Dynon's not selling the stc. EAA is to EAA members. Gonna do wonders for me!bership.
 
Chip Sylverne said:
No, but an autopilot will.
The Dynon has built in autopilot software, all you need to add are servos. I guess you missed the last line about "if servos can be installed".
Click to expand...

I most certainly did miss the "if servos can be added". If that comes to fruition then it will relieve some of the pilot work load to sort things out.
 
Potential for removing the entire vacuum system, with a D10 EFIS, and an EAA STC for probably 3-4AMU's! Hot damn!

For those guys with no room in the panel for glass and standby instruments unless they get those little 2"-3" expensive bastards will be in hog heaven with this!
 
Last edited:
Grum.Man said:
As others have said this only replaces your vacuum gyro and does not allow removal of your vacuum system for other gauges. Not really that big of an advancement if you ask me. They let you remove one of your least important instruments and replace it with a digital one. Granted most digital displays can do many more functions that a steam gauge panel cannot. I would be more excited if I could remove my airspeed, altimeter, VS, Bank and Yaw, and directional gyro as well. That would be a pretty significant weight savings and panel clean up on smaller certified aircraft.
Click to expand...
What does the vacuum system run besides gyros?
 
As an avionics guy, this makes me wonder if they had to go through the entire Do-178B/C process for software development. That is why these fun gadgets cost so much in certified aircraft. If Dynon really did pull it off, it took a lot of expertise and money. May be a hint that they will be doing more things like this in the future?
 
OK,, So a question. If I had a one of these installed in E/AB and wanted to sell it to a Certified Aircraft owner, How can he install it?
 
It's about time. Should have happened 5 years ago. The D10A is a very good, very reliable instrument. I've logged a bunch of hours in an RV-4 where it was the primary flight instrument.
 
Neal Howard said:
It's about time. Should have happened 5 years ago. The D10A is a very good, very reliable instrument. I've logged a bunch of hours in an RV-4 where it was the primary flight instrument.
Click to expand...

IFR?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top