Dynamic Prop Balancing PIREP

tsts4

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Auburntsts
Flew down to Venice, FL this past Saturday to participate in a dynamic prop balancing session hosted by RV-8 owner Mike at his hangar along with 3 other RV-8 owners. Mike had rented an older DynaVibe balancer-- the one where you have to do the math manually vs the newer ones that do it all for you. After arrival my RV-10 was first in the chute. The hard part was figuring out how to mount the accelerometer and rpm sensor to the engine using what were apparently DIY attach brackets that came with the kit. Once we got that sorted, we did 3 runs that took me from .22 IPS (fair) down to .02 (excellent). The reduction in vibration was quite noticeable. All in all it took roughly 3 hours at a relatively leisurely pace to knock out 3 planes.

If you're on the fence about doing this, I highly recommend it.
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I agree, well worth the time and money to have it done. So worth it to me that I bought a used dynaVibe. I sent it back to dyna vibe to have it calibrated and a certification so it can be used on certified airplanes.
I first had it done by ASI and watched closely and helped. Then bought my own. Have done 4 airplanes with my AP supervision.

Here my plane all setup waiting for a calm evening to do the balance check. Must face into the wind and the less wind the better. This was just a yearly check for me. It makes such a difference you can hear it in the the pattern and your motor performs stronger and better. Nice that I can do it on my schedule when the wind is calm.
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The mounts I use...
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Everything on the plane lasts longer when it is running smooth, including the pilot.
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IMO this is not optimal because it is not as close to the prop as it could be.
FYI: velometer install within 4 inches of the engine crank flange is pretty much a standard. Closer to prop doesnt change the results with this type equipment. However closer to the centerline of the shaft (12 o'clock) will keep clock to weight location correction to a minimum.
 
We use to check the helicopter vibe levels in flight. would be interesting to vibe check a plane in flight. I balanced my prop with an old chadwick helmuth balancer. It wasnt as fancy but it worked.
 
would be interesting to vibe check a plane in flight
I've done a few to chase odd vibrations only felt in flight. The hardest part is equipment set up as few fixed wing OEMs address inflight vibration analysis. And if your analyzer isn't set up for magnetic pick ups it can be a bit challenging to get an optical tach to fit and work under a cowling. But it can be done. Sometimes using an old "analog" Chadwick with a hand held probe works the best.
 
I also did vibration analysis and blade tracking in helicopters in my previous life. Actually got pretty good with it.

I bought a DynaVibe kit last year. And, I've used it on an RV-6, a Commander 114, and a Cherokee 140. The results are pretty interesting.

On all 3, I got the IPS within an acceptable range with just one adjustment. But, on the Commander, with a 3-bladed CS prop, even though the final reading was 0.06 IPS, the owner stated he still felt that it wasn't as smooth as it should be. The blade track is correct and the motor mounts look good.

The only thing I can figure is that there's some internal engine harmonic that just can't be tuned out. I suggested the owner keep a real close eye on engine oil analysis and maybe subscribe to Saavy Aviation's oil analysis program.
 
The only thing I can figure is that there's some internal engine harmonic that just can't be tuned out.
Can your DynaVibe perform a spectral analysis? That would help you see if there were any internal issues and at what freq. For example, if you see a high peak in the 1/2 per range its usually one cylinder not firing as well as the others. And most engine mounts are not tuned to dampen 1/2 pers. Also engine mounts can be deceiving and while look good have lost their dampener capabilities. And so on. Just take your previous rotor knowledge and apply it here. Easy.;)
 
Can your DynaVibe perform a spectral analysis? That would help you see if there were any internal issues and at what freq. For example, if you see a high peak in the 1/2 per range its usually one cylinder not firing as well as the others. And most engine mounts are not tuned to dampen 1/2 pers. Also engine mounts can be deceiving and while look good have lost their dampener capabilities. And so on. Just take your previous rotor knowledge and apply it here. Easy.;)

As far as I know the Dynavibe Classic is just provides 2 dimensional plot of vibration intensity and relative clock angle wrt the master blade. They're kinda like a single axis (channel) version of the old Scientific-Atlantic 3-axis VATS testers from 40 years ago. I thought those spectral analyzers cost many thousands of dollars.
 
Sounds like a far better solution than the guy who balanced an IO-360 by stick-welding slag into the bottom of the pistons and then drilling part of it back out until they weighed the same.:eek:
 
I thought those spectral analyzers cost many thousands of dollars.
The popular ones (Dyna, Micro, ACES) are in the $4-5K range but you can rent them for a reasonable rate. Thats what I did for several years before buying my ACES. Once you balance the prop and still have a vibration its the ticket to find the culprit without just throwing parts at it.
 
Sounds like a far better solution than the guy who balanced an IO-360 by stick-welding slag into the bottom of the pistons and then drilling part of it back out until they weighed the same.:eek:
What!!?? Who would do something like that? We did not add weight but would drill out the pin bosses to get a good balance.
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What!!?? Who would do something like that?
Don’t know for sure, but I suspect it was “owner maintained”, as the airplane had been actively flying without an annual for five years before the guy I knew bought it.

Fortunately he had an issue and collapsed the gear, requiring an engine tear down that found it.
 
The downside is it NOT LEGAL! I wish it was, looks good!
I've heard of them installed on TC aircraft under a field approval but never personally saw one. A friend did a bunch of ground work on a Cessna with one but in the end didnt see the advantage of it vs approval cost. It does work but it really excels at providing a dynamic solution over a varying RPM range.

However, given aircraft operate at one RPM 90% of the time, you can get equal smoothness using conventional methods. The problem is most owners do not put credence in dynamically balancing/checking their prop/engine and tend to accept things as is with no further discussion. Or simply dont want to spend the money. In my experience, once I would get a persons prop/engine/aircraft "dialed in" they usually become a balance believer for life.
 
However, given aircraft operate at one RPM 90% of the time, you can get equal smoothness using conventional methods. The problem is most owners do not put credence in dynamically balancing/checking their prop/engine and tend to accept things as is with no further discussion. Or simply dont want to spend the money. In my experience, once I would get a persons prop/engine/aircraft "dialed in" they usually become a balance believer for life.
After balancing an engine/prop combo that shook like a dog ****ting peach pits I am a balance believer for life :) . The engine is gone and the prop is relegated to the hangar wall, and I put a Landoll balancer on the new engine (a) because I had one, and (b) because I needed to move my empty CG forward. If I ever get some weight out of the tail I'll remove the balancer and have it dynamically balanced and enjoy a little more useful load.

Nauga,
and his aluminum donut
 
Some odds & ends -

0.07 or below is the target IPS since (I've read) humans cannot detect vibration at or below .07 IPS. The accelerometer can. I bought the Dynavibe when it first came out 2007 - one of their first customers. I've done dozens of planes since then. Some interesting things I've learned:

Most mechanical tachs read low at high RPM, especially well worn ones. The optical sensor on the Dynavibe allows one to check the accuracy of the mechanical tach - a side benefit of getting a "prop balance".

If there is significant imbalance 0.25 and higher, balancing the prop can allow the engine to gain as much as a couple hundred more RPM since power is no longer being wasted in overcoming the drag of imbalance.

Although called a "prop balance", balancing the prop is actually detecting overall rotational imbalance. The Dynavibe tells one just where to put weight to offset the imbalance, wherever it is coming from. The original Dynavibe (now called the "Classic") is all one needs. It's still around $1500 new. Their GX model at $4K can accept two sets of sensor cables allowing one set to be placed at the rear of the engine thus allowing one skilled in its use to use it for diagnostic purposes. Unless one is involved in A&P work at a professional level, the additional capability of the GX models is unnecessary. I've got both the Classic and the GX, the latter was a gift. The "Classic" is all one needs in order to maintain a smooth engine. It's inexpensive enough and valuable enough that it ought to be considered an essential hangar tool. No shop will take as much care and time as the aircraft owner will using his/her own equipment. As engines wear, having your own balancer allows the owner to re-do a balance job as often as they want. Plus, any change such as a new prop or prop repair or spinner mod . . . any change at all with anything that rotates . . . will require a new balance job so it's nice to have your own tools to use whenever one wants.

To learn proficiency in using these things, there's no need to burn avgas. The accelerometer and optical senor can be mounted on a pedestal type shop fan with the shroud removed. A piece of tape on one of the blades will introduce imbalance (assuming there was none to start with) and allow one to practice the use of the balancer.

I always forward the excellent guide at the link below to anyone who I'm doing a balance for. It's an easy read and very comprehensive.

https://www.acessystems.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Aces-Guide-Propeller-Balancing.pdf

Dynavibe's own now well-developed website now provides a wealth of info on the subject. I've been told there are some very good YouTube videos on prop balancing . . . haven't gotten around to watching any of them yet.

If there is significant imbalance (that is, you can put two fingers on the glareshield and feel vibration), take the prop off and do a static balance before you do the dynamic balance. This is mandatory if the vibration is really bad. Optional if not. I've never done a static balance on a CS prop so do some research on the subject if you've got a CS prop. It may be just as easy and simple as with a FP prop for all I know.

Before doing anything, chock the wheels and check blade tracking. An out of track prop is not a difficult problem to correct but if the run-ups cannot return consistent IPS readings, this could be the reason.

Make sure you're aware of any resonance issues that may exist with your engine/prop combination - that is, constant RPM's to avoid. These exist more commonly than many owners are aware of.

Very high, max RPM run-ups to identify imbalance can cause erratic readings thanks to "ground resonance". This isn't always the case, but sometimes it's an issue, especially with high HP engines. Do run-ups at your normal cruise settings unless the plane is straining so hard against the brakes and chocks that it's bouncing around. Drop down a hundred RPM or so if this happens. It's not that common but with bigger engines it can be.

Best do your run-ups in no-breeze conditions. Do you imagine the shop you might use for prop balancing gives this any attention? I've done balance jobs on planes that had just been done by some shop and the IPS readings were awful. Nobody will do as good a job as you will yourself.

Mike Stirewalt
 
I also did vibration analysis and blade tracking in helicopters in my previous life. Actually got pretty good with it.

I bought a DynaVibe kit last year. And, I've used it on an RV-6, a Commander 114, and a Cherokee 140. The results are pretty interesting.

On all 3, I got the IPS within an acceptable range with just one adjustment. But, on the Commander, with a 3-bladed CS prop, even though the final reading was 0.06 IPS, the owner stated he still felt that it wasn't as smooth as it should be. The blade track is correct and the motor mounts look good.

The only thing I can figure is that there's some internal engine harmonic that just can't be tuned out. I suggested the owner keep a real close eye on engine oil analysis and maybe subscribe to Saavy Aviation's oil analysis program.

Sometimes there are resonance/harmonic issues with certain engines with certain props. (RPM & power setting combinations to avoid) Owner needs to do some research.
 
In my experience, once I would get a persons prop/engine/aircraft "dialed in" they usually become a balance believer for life.
I'm interested in getting my prop/engine/aircraft dialed in. Where should I start? Find a prop shop and fly there?
 
I'm interested in getting my prop/engine/aircraft dialed in. Where should I start? Find a prop shop and fly there?
It's not rocket surgery, but you do want the right equipment. I'd call a few prop shops and ask if they know anyone that's well-equipped.
 
Where should I start? Find a prop shop and fly there?
Check with your mechanic to see if he knows anyone local with balance equipment. Or ask around to include other shops. And if the person you use also has the ability to perform an engine vibration spectrum analysis may want to have one done for a baseline since you've basically rebuilt the aircraft. However not all equipment can do a spectrum.

Or maybe check around the airport to see if others may want to balance a prop and see if you can get a group rate and they travel to you? It was something I'd suggest if I received a lone ad hoc balance request which usually worked out for all involved and generated more interest in the process.
 
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Everything on the plane lasts longer when it is running smooth, including the pilot.
Yup. Radios, gyros, cooling baffles, engine control cables, mounting brackets of all sorts. Vibration causes damage to it all.
 
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