DuPuis Family Cobra Build

Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by Ted DuPuis, Aug 3, 2018.

  1. Fiveslide

    Fiveslide Line Up and Wait

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    Fun fact: a semi truck has to have two horns, an air horn and, usually, an electric horn just like every other car. If your electric horn quits, one of those squeezy horns is a suitable replacement and it will pass annual inspection.

    I mounted mine to my driver's side mirror.
     
  2. SCCutler

    SCCutler Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    Well, what the hell. Why not?

    And, in the same post as an allusion to a 1983 Ford LTD.
     
  3. Ted DuPuis

    Ted DuPuis Administrator Management Council Member

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    #bandozer
    It would be worth looking into things to see if anyone has (or if I think I could) retrofit an OEM style turn signal lever that has more controls built-in to it.

    The pushing a side button I think would be fine for me as a reflex since I'm used to it from other cars. While it's uncommon it's not unheard of.

    This is the setup that most people buy and it's very compact and convenient:

    http://www.norcal-cobras.com/store/russ_garage/mk3/mk3tss.html

    Yeah, my K100 had a (pathetic) electric horn and then a (loud) air horn. I liked the air horn better. :)
     
  4. Matthew

    Matthew Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Whatever horn you go with, make sure it can play "la cucaracha".

    --

    What's the procedure, if any, to go through to get the finished Cobra OK'd as being street legal?
     
  5. -KLB-

    -KLB- Pre-takeoff checklist

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    yeah, it will be difficult to compete with that. What is ironic, is that I would almost swear that the 69 Karmann Ghia that I sometimes drove had a momentary pull back contact on the turn signal stalk that operated the dimmer relay, as a simple pull back to toggle between low and hi beams.
     
  6. SoonerAviator

    SoonerAviator Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Does none of the regular retrofit companies make a steering column for it (Ididit)? I know Ididit has similar styles to the one you linked and have the add-on for the high beam/FTP switch to be integrated with the turn signal or tilt stalk, but not sure if they have the exact dimensions.
     
  7. Ted DuPuis

    Ted DuPuis Administrator Management Council Member

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    #bandozer
    Seeing as the car has a steering column already (that comes from FFR) I don't particularly want to fiddle with a different steering column that may not fit or work as well.

    This is actually one aspect of the kit that I'm not a big fan of - the way they have you install it is using the Mustang turn signal stalk, I think mounted behind the dash and you reach under to switch it on/off. No thanks. Fine for a dedicated track car, not really for a street car.
     
  8. SoonerAviator

    SoonerAviator Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    I'm just surprised that your link is the "best" option, given that so many Cobra replicars have been produced. I would have thought that the turn signal/high beam/horn issue would have been addressed. What about a two position headlight switch, where the aft-position is high beams, and the mid-position is the low beams/running lights?
     
  9. Ted DuPuis

    Ted DuPuis Administrator Management Council Member

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    I'd like that option, one's just not currently available from someone that I'm aware of.
     
  10. SoonerAviator

    SoonerAviator Final Approach PoA Supporter

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  11. Ted DuPuis

    Ted DuPuis Administrator Management Council Member

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    #bandozer
    I misunderstood what you were initially saying, I thought you were thinking about a turn signal lever on the Cobra like that.

    Yes, I'd seen headlight switches like this one, and that would likely be a good option. Although I have to think about the dynamics of that. I could see it getting to where I go to turn off my high beams and accidentally turn off the headlights entirely.
     
  12. SoonerAviator

    SoonerAviator Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Suppose it just depends on how strong the detent is between stations. I bet you'd only make the mistake once or twice!
     
  13. Ted DuPuis

    Ted DuPuis Administrator Management Council Member

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    Like you said, it depends on how strong that detent is. Some switches are harder to modulate than others. The other option I've considered is a standard off/parking lights/headlights, and then have a second switch for high beams. Could even have it be a 3-position (off-momentary-on) so I could both flash high beams and turn them on.

    I need to spend some time looking at the dashboard a bit for that, as I need to determine an appropriate physical location for it, too.
     
  14. Ted DuPuis

    Ted DuPuis Administrator Management Council Member

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    I realized I had some video that I hadn't posted to YouTube and it'd been over a month since my last video. Oops. So here's the first bit of the video:

     
  15. Sac Arrow

    Sac Arrow Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Pretty cool video.
     
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  16. Ted DuPuis

    Ted DuPuis Administrator Management Council Member

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    Thanks!
     
  17. Ted DuPuis

    Ted DuPuis Administrator Management Council Member

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    This past weekend I managed to get some work done on the Cobra, mostly on a few details. Got started making the bracket for the alternator. I need to add another portion to the bracket so that it has two bolts that mount it to the engine so that it can support the alternator belt pushing back correctly. I really need to get gas for my welder.

    I also finished up the fuel hoses that needed to get done, so that system is "done" and I could test it at any time. I suppose I have two more rivets for adel clamps to put in.

    Then I worked on the HVAC some, mostly in figuring out which fittings I needed to use where, started working on some of the hoses, and also started drilling holes for the hoses to pass through the "bird box".

    I also gave some more thought to switches etc for the dash. I've decided that what I want to do is put the wiring for the horn on the turn signal stalk, and then I'll have an ignition key (which will turn on the ECU as well as the water pump). Then there will be the headlight switch (likely a pull switch with off, marker lights, headlights, and twist to dim) and another physical switch for the high beams on and off. There's a rotary switch for the blower motor (off plus low/medium/high blower motor speeds), and then I'll have a switch for turning on the AC compressor. And given that the heated seats have their own switches which I think I'll put in the transmission tunnel area, that should be it for the dash switches. So it'll still look a bit more conventional than I was originally planning, but simpler and it'll be fine. I've also decided I'm just going to use switches I already have for now. I can put different switches in later if I feel like it. The hole sizes are pretty standard so it's not a big deal.

    As far as indicator lights go, I'm only planning on indicators for the turn signals and the high beams. Nothing else I can think of would be required.

    So I have a shopping list of things I need to buy to move things along - order the spark plug wires (the DIY ones since @3393RP sent me the assembly tool). Ignition switch, headlight switch, some other details. The big thing that I need to order, though is my AC compressor. I'm getting to where I need to mount that so that I can start figuring out where

    I did have one casualty - my angle grinder. Given that it was a cheap thing that I bought at Menard's for $20, I can't complain too much - it lasted about 4 years. I need to buy a new one, though. Gotta figure out whether to go with my standard favorite of DeWalt or something else.
     
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  18. Sac Arrow

    Sac Arrow Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Heh, I compare Ted's Jaguar to a 2017 Sentra, so....
     
  19. Ted DuPuis

    Ted DuPuis Administrator Management Council Member

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    #bandozer
    Technically it's my wife's Jaguar. Which means you have to deal with insulting her car, not mine.

    I don't envy anyone in the position of insulting my wife or anything she owns.
     
  20. Ted DuPuis

    Ted DuPuis Administrator Management Council Member

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    Well, I was going to go with a set of custom Taylor wires, and then they went and annoyed me.

    Last month I'd messaged them about what I wanted. They gave me a price. I followed up wanting to buy the wires, no response. So then I call them up. Guy says he can't sell me what I need (the race wires with EDIS ends) and that I'd have to do it myself. Then when I remind him he said they could do it he looks at it, says the price is now close to $200 shipped.

    Ok, I can figure out something else better.

    So I've started out by ordering a set of Ford Racing 9mm 4.6L 2-valve spark plug wires. The real key with this is that they're for an EDIS-equipped engine (which is what the 2-valve 4.6s were prior to the introduction of coil-on-plug, at which point there were no more spark plug wires). This gives me wires that will at least connect to the EDIS coils correctly.

    What I do from there will depend on what I see once the wires show up. The 4.6L has spark plugs buried deep within the heads and so the boots are quite long. I have a feeling the spark plug boots won't work for me as-is, and of course these are cut to length so they will probably be the wrong length. But it gives me a starting point and gets me what I need to start for the coil packs. And that set is $75 shipped.

    What I can then do if I need (which I probably will) is order a universal plug wire set of 9mm Ford Racing wires (for about $50 shipped) and then mutilate the two sets of wires to make Frankenwires to make ignition work on the Cobra.

    And that's a lot cheaper than the $200 shipped that Taylor quoted me, with less hassle. Sounds good to me.
     
  21. geezer

    geezer Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Do you plan to have windshield wipers? I think they are mandatory for street legal. Thought of them while reading the list of switches you are planning. Turn signal stalk is a common place to hide the wiper switch. The progress is impressive so far.
     
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  22. Ted DuPuis

    Ted DuPuis Administrator Management Council Member

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    #bandozer
    I will have windshield wipers, and ordered that option from Factory Five when I bought the kit. Yes, that will be a consideration, and I should actually look at mounting the wiper motor before too long so that I can have that constraint in place when running certain hoses and wires.

    What a lot of people do is they'll simply put in a manual wiper to pass the inspection. I figured I wanted real wipers as I'll get caught in the rain at some point.
     
  23. Ted DuPuis

    Ted DuPuis Administrator Management Council Member

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    #bandozer
    A friend of mine who has a lathe is helping out with the task of modifying a distributor to simply be an oil pump drive for the engine. This way I don't have both coils and a distributor (either with or without cap) just sitting there and looking like an afterthought.

    I bought a freshly rebuilt 351W distributor to send to him to start working with. I do have a diameter restriction to consider because of the intake manifold, so we're looking at that. But one consideration was how to cap off the modified distributor so that it looks like an intentional piece. My friend did some digging and found an old Ford dust cap, similar to this one:

    [​IMG]

    Which he bought. The one he found is in more "used" condition (and looks it) but I think will look a lot more purposeful and intentional, having the Ford logo and such. I'm looking forward to the finished product on that.

    I also went ahead and ordered a bunch of crank sensors to hopefully find the right one that will fit, so hopefully I can have that figured out before long.

    Once my friend finishes up the distributor work and sends that to me, the motor will be in a state where all physical items are in place to make it run, it'll just be a matter of electrical work.

    This is definitely the "90% down, 90% to go" phase of things...
     
  24. FormerHangie

    FormerHangie En-Route

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    A bespoke part for your bespoke car, gotta love it.
     
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  25. Ted DuPuis

    Ted DuPuis Administrator Management Council Member

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    Over the weekend while my son and I were off flying puppies the spark plug wires I ordered arrived. Recall that these were for a 2-valve 4.6L EDIS-equipped engine. I wasn't sure if they would fit or if I'd just be buying them for the EDIS plug ends. End result is that they actually fit quite well, only a few wires that are on the tight side, but I think will still work just fine once I change out the wire ends.

    And so there's the issue I have to figure out. The 4.6L engines have the plugs buried deep in the heads and so the plug boot ends are long and intended for that deep plug well. As-is they do clip onto the spark plug wires, but because of how large and how long the boots are, several of them touch the headers. So I'll need to get those boots off and then replace them with standard 135 degree boots. I'm not entirely sure what the best way to do this is, specifically getting the existing boots off. They're on there tight (as you'd expect). I'm thinking some combination of heating up the boots and maybe using a box cutter/blade to cut them off. Then get some 135 degree boots and put them on.

    One thing I'm starting to wonder about is whether I should even bother with a MAP sensor or just run Alpha-N (TPS only) for the EFI. My goals are to have fast throttle response, don't care about fuel economy, but the engine does need to run right. I'm starting to think I might be best off leaving off the MAP sensor given these goals.

    [​IMG]
     
  26. Ted DuPuis

    Ted DuPuis Administrator Management Council Member

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    I was pointed to an interesting video about individual throttle body tuning. Definitely looks like either Alpha-N or ITB tuning (which is a blend of speed density and Alpha-N).

     
  27. Ted DuPuis

    Ted DuPuis Administrator Management Council Member

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    My friend who's modifying the distributor for me just got the Ford dust cap:

    [​IMG]

    Going to work well!
     
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  28. Ted DuPuis

    Ted DuPuis Administrator Management Council Member

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    I managed to get the boots off the spark plug wires, which was incredibly easy to accomplish with a box cutter. So now I have to figure out what to do to replace them.

    I’m actually thinking the best option might be to buy a set of the same wires with the correct boots for the plug side and then basically do the same thing - cut the boots off but then put them on these wires. Boots by themselves aren’t competitively priced and there aren’t any I’ve found sized for 9mm wires specifically so this might just be the way to go.

    55534418-25C9-4EF7-804D-705DA07E8CA4.jpeg
     
  29. Ted DuPuis

    Ted DuPuis Administrator Management Council Member

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    After doing a bit of searching on Amazon last night, I found a set of the Ford Racing 9mm wires with 135 degree (or 45 degree, depending on how you're measuring it) ends for $30 including shipping. That's about what I can buy a set of ends for by themselves, and those would be ends that aren't designed for the 9mm wires. So I figured that makes the most sense, got those on the way. I also ordered a couple of ground straps for the engine and alternator.

    I'm basically at the point where I need to start ordering my red and black wires to start actual wiring on the car. Of course looking on Amazon (and even Summit) I'm finding a lot of stuff that basically warns that it's not good wire and in some cases says specifically not for use underhood. So I want to buy good quality wire here, but need to figure out what exactly that is. I also need to buy some shielded wire for the speedometer sender and the crank sensor wiring.

    A few of the crank sensors showed up last night and I started playing around with them a bit. A couple more are due in soon but I have a feeling that none of the sensors will actually just bolt up and work, so I will have to make a spacer to get the spacing correct. Annoying to have that extra work but I suppose it's also to be expected when you consider what I'm trying to do. And once I have that done, I'll be able to finish up the alternator bracket. But I may have to order back in the sensor I returned if that's the closest/best option. Oh well.

    And I need to order a MAP sensor and connector... the good part being that with no boost involved, I don't have to worry so much about it wanting to blow out.
     
  30. SoonerAviator

    SoonerAviator Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    I'd probably run the standard color combos that most use for wiring schematics. It'd make chasing electrical issues a bit easier than having all positives in red and all grounds in black.
     
  31. FormerHangie

    FormerHangie En-Route

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    Pegasus has what appears to be a good quality wire here. If you want to use mil spec ETFE wire they also have that here, but it only comes in white and you'll have to buy an expensive set of stripping pliers to use it.
     
  32. -KLB-

    -KLB- Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Unfortunately, copper clad aluminum, masquerading as copper has become a thing. And a lot of wire is out there with very soft insulation as well. I’ve never really thought about suitability for under hood use, but I really like Ancor marine wire for a lot of low voltage applications.

    https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B000NV2CTS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    Being tinned, stranded wire, it should age well. And while I mostly crimp connectors any more, this stuff solders beautifully. In fact, I’ll usually strip and retin the end, just to make sure I didn’t get a counterfeit roll of aluminum pretending to be tinned copper.
     
  33. Ted DuPuis

    Ted DuPuis Administrator Management Council Member

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    #bandozer
    That Pegasus wires look like they're probably what I want. 275F temp rating and resistant to all those fluids hits the specs. I need to look at the circuits that I'm doing and figure out roughly how much feet of what gauge I want...

    The marine cable that @-KLB- mentioned looks good, but not quite as high spec.

    Figuring out what kind of shielded wire I need is another question...
     
  34. 3393RP

    3393RP En-Route

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    Look at Ancor marine wire. It has 105°C insulation, finer stranding than automotive wire, and it's tinned for corrosion resistance. It's available in a dozen or so colors. I also recommend the Ancor adhesive lined heat shrink crimp connecters. They're waterproof.

    Greenlee makes a great crimper for those connectors, I don't have the model number handy.
     
  35. Ted DuPuis

    Ted DuPuis Administrator Management Council Member

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    Interesting. 105C is realistically fine I imagine, but still lower than 275F (but not by a ton). But the corrosion resistance would be useful and the specs on fluid and UV resistance are definitely nice and worth considering.

    Realistically thinking about the needs underhood, heat is going to be a bigger issue than fluid resistance as this car isn't going to get driven in wet conditions much. And of all the things I've had problems with on cars, wiring has never been one of them. So I'm probably also overthinking this.
     
  36. SoonerAviator

    SoonerAviator Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    It's less about the driving in rain, so much as going through that puddle that sprays up under the wheel wells/firewall/engine bay. That's where a little bit of water that sits in a crimped connection causes issues. The Greeley tool I have is the 45500, which does a great job on insulated wire.
     
  37. Ted DuPuis

    Ted DuPuis Administrator Management Council Member

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    Sure, but puddles usually come from rain occurring either presently or recently. :)

    I absolutely agree that the ends should be appropriately sealed to prevent water/moisture/etc. from getting in. All of the electrical connectors have weatherpak-style connectors so they should do well.
     
  38. -KLB-

    -KLB- Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Around here, far too many puddles come from the HOA, or even the city trying to grow new concrete. Or at least nobody has been able to document a better reason for all the sprinklers watering the roads.
     
  39. Ted DuPuis

    Ted DuPuis Administrator Management Council Member

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    Ha, true. Those happen. But around here it's mostly rain.
     
  40. SoonerAviator

    SoonerAviator Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Right, I was thinking broken water lines, water sprinklers, construction zones, etc. that are less predictable than rain. Ted, you even mentioned likely getting caught in the rain and needing windshield wipers, lol. Don't backtrack on it now!