Dropped the new bird at the avionics shop Friday!

DavidWhite said:
Also my mechanic knows that for an airplane owner (especially a relatively higher end one) I am not particularly wealthy, and I don't want to ask my parents for help on this. I told my mechanic that, and that's when he came up with that system. He said "Yeah, I remember starting out too."

He's a good, good guy.
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$6k+ just for parts? :hairraise: I think I could buy enough sealant to do both wings for <$400...
 
Sometime during the 25th week of our 2-week Garmin 500 installation I found myself asking similar questions. The answer is that they've had enough practice that you'll never know.

N747JB said:
If you know someone's lying, is it still a lie? :D
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Looks purdy! :D

Just curious - with all of the work you're doing regarding the panel, was there a reason you chose to keep what looks like the WX-10 in the lower right there vs getting a WX-500 that would display on the panel with your MLOD, etc.?
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Looks purdy! :D

Just curious - with all of the work you're doing regarding the panel, was there a reason you chose to keep what looks like the WX-10 in the lower right there vs getting a WX-500 that would display on the panel with your MLOD, etc.?
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I honestly didn't want to spend any more money! With radar and XM, having the WX 10 is kind of a bonus, I wouldn't pay to add it, it's not worth anything used, so it just stayed.;)
 
N747JB said:
I honestly didn't want to spend any more money! With radar and XM, having the WX 10 is kind of a bonus, I wouldn't pay to add it, it's not worth anything used, so it just stayed.;)
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Makes sense. We added the WX-500 to the 310 a few months back on top of the KWX56 radar. I like it displaying on the 430W/530W, especially since that makes it easy to keep track of with heading changes.
 
Not complete, but it's looking better.
(John the optimist)
 
DavidWhite said:
Also my mechanic knows that for an airplane owner (especially a relatively higher end one) I am not particularly wealthy, and I don't want to ask my parents for help on this. I told my mechanic that, and that's when he came up with that system. He said "Yeah, I remember starting out too."

He's a good, good guy.
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How do you pull that off? For some reason, sales people often think my pockets are deeper than they actually are. People that I try and suck up to KNOW that my pockets aren't deep enough!:D
 
Got this picture this morning, I may one day have my airplane back! But, still no final invoice.:mad2: Looks like a few wires still need to be tucked in. :rolleyes:

 
DavidWhite said:
Thankfully the bladder kit comes with a half gallon jug of KY to make it slightly less painful
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I hope it all turns out well.



I fly a C177 with 45+ year old sealant without leaks, I wonder what the actual condition of the sealant was in your tanks was. If it wasn't chalky looking or loose over many random areas, I would have chased the leak as your sealant is much newer than mine.


It sometimes takes hard work to get wet wings sealed, sometimes it's easy. Most of the time its pretty easy, even if it leaked on the first top-off leak check.
 
John- you make sure they hook up those wires, not just tuck them in:D
 
N747JB said:
I honestly didn't want to spend any more money! With radar and XM, having the WX 10 is kind of a bonus, I wouldn't pay to add it, it's not worth anything used, so it just stayed.;)
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I was going to pull mine out of the 340 when I bought it and upgraded the panel, but a Delta 767 Capt. buddy of mine talked me into keeping it.

I had satellite weather on my ex–500 and thought that was good enough, but he said that's good for where you are headed… not where you are that the storm scope would show better.

I never flew hard enough IMC to need both, but it looked cool:D
 
JimG. said:
I was going to pull mine out of the 340 when I bought it and upgraded the panel, but a Delta 767 Capt. buddy of mine talked me into keeping it.

I had satellite weather on my ex–500 and thought that was good enough, but he said that's good for where you are headed… not where you are that the storm scope would show better.

I never flew hard enough IMC to need both, but it looked cool:D
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It's a matter of I'd rather have it than pay to take it out. :D
We do have power hooked up and the programming has begun!!
 
olasek said:
Waiting for a nice, sharp photo with the new boxes all lit up like a Christmas tree :D
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I flew down tonight to check on it, they were having a data upload issue on the G600, but they reformatted the upload card and I think it was resolved when I left.:yes: Again, I have been promised an invoice in the morning, we'll see.:rolleyes: I filled out all the appropriate speeds for the airspeed tapes to set into the G600, so it feels like we are getting closer to the light at the end of the tunnel, I hope it's not another train! :mad2:
I also got the antenna codes for the XM subscription, so I can go ahead and get that started.:D
 
No update for two days?? If the invoice was produced, I see two possibilities. Either John is still in the cardiac unit at Piedmont Fayette or he hasn't made bail yet! :lol::lol:

Seriously, how's it going? I'm looking forward to more avionics pron...
 
His profile shows activity about an hour + 7 mins ago.
 
Papa Foxtrot said:
No update for two days?? If the invoice was produced, I see two possibilities. Either John is still in the cardiac unit at Piedmont Fayette or he hasn't made bail yet! :lol::lol:

Seriously, how's it going? I'm looking forward to more avionics pron...
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If I post what I'm thinking I am afraid I will be diagnosed with either depression or some type of anger management issue!:mad2::mad2:
No invoice, no bond hearing, no cardiac unit..............yet.:rolleyes:
I ended up cancelling my fishing trip for this weekend, a combination of airplane and weather issues, plus today is my anniversary, so I got a couple brownie points for staying home!:D
I haven't gone down since Wednesday, and will wait until Monday when it's SUPPOSED to be ready.
I did get the XM subscriptions activated yesterday. :rolleyes2:
 
tmyers said:
Is that guy banging his head against the panel in post #138?
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I wouldn't blame him if he was! It has been a tough install for these guys, I guess they are all tough at some point. I would think having basically all new radios and displays would be easier than adding a piece here and there, but I am not an avionics guy. :dunno:
 
I am pretty good with electronics from my AF training but that's a lot of wires and connections, and if something didn't work where in the world would you look. I think someone posted that in these higher end aircraft that every installation is a one of. Hats off to the guys that do that stuff I think I would be ready for a rubber room by now.
 
tmyers said:
I am pretty good with electronics from my AF training but that's a lot of wires and connections, and if something didn't work where in the world would you look. I think someone posted that in these higher end aircraft that every installation is a one of. Hats off to the guys that do that stuff I think I would be ready for a rubber room by now.
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Me too, I am not what you would call a handy man, and while I was there Wednesday the guys were checking connections, one in the cockpit, one at the nose avionics bay, talking via speaker phones, "Pin 6" check, "Pin 22" check, back to pin 6 and on and on. VERY tedious work, but they were still smiling when I left.:D
I keep hearing how happy I am going to be with the install, I better dang well be happy with it and the bill! :mad2:
 
As with most things involving large checks, the paying part isn't the fun part. The flying it part is!
 
Ted DuPuis said:
As with most things involving large checks, the paying part isn't the fun part. The flying it part is!
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While I am not looking forward to writing the check, I am prepared to pay the bill. My issue is I don't know how much they are going to try to charge me. If it's somewhere close to the original quote plus the few things I added and changed, I will be a happy camper. If it's anywhere close to the "revised" quote I got a week into the project, I may not be able to fly for some time, until we get it settled. :mad2: It's not that I want a fight, I don't, I don't want to take advantage of their "quoting error" but I expect them to live up to the deal we made. At this point I think they are waiting on the final invoice until the work is finished, which is OK, but they have told me a couple times the invoice would be ready tomorrow and tomorrow never comes. :mad2: At some point they know what extra parts were needed etc and can give me a preliminary invoice, now I hope they don't email it to me tonight and ruin my weekend. :nono:
 
My guess is that they are trying to get some help from the vendors on lowering their cost and hence yours to make the project cost palatable.
 
tmyers said:
My guess is that they are trying to get some help from the vendors on lowering their cost and hence yours to make the project cost palatable.
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I hope that is the case, the guy I am talking to keeps telling me they are trying to work it all in my favor! The simple answer would be: quote is $XXX, you added $XX, you owe $XXX+XX. But somehow I don't see that as what is happening. I am going to find out dealer cost on the equipment from a guy I know so at least I can figure out what is fair. I don't want them to lose money on the deal, but I know what their labor cost is or pretty close and they will have a tally of the hours plus equipment. I just want a level playing field if we end up negotiating the invoice. ;)
 
I don't know, were it me I wouldn't have a problem with them losing money. Win some, lose some, they clearly lost some here.

I remember when you got the quotes this shop was notably cheaper - $20kish? Sounds like they didn't know what they were quoting.

Don't the laws state they can't hold your plane? So you'd still be able to fly, but they might have a lien if it didn't get sorted out. Of course, you will sort it out and probably the day you pick it up.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I don't know, were it me I wouldn't have a problem with them losing money. Win some, lose some, they clearly lost some here.

I remember when you got the quotes this shop was notably cheaper - $20kish? Sounds like they didn't know what they were quoting.

Don't the laws state they can't hold your plane? So you'd still be able to fly, but they might have a lien if it didn't get sorted out. Of course, you will sort it out and probably the day you pick it up.
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They were the lowest quote, not by a huge margin on the G-600 install, and when we added the 650/750 and all the other stuff, I don't think they added enough labor hours at the regular labor rate. I haven't talked to an attorney yet, I think that is premature at this point, they haven't given me a bill to argue about. :rolleyes: I am a win-win guy and will negoiate in good faith, but realizing I "think" I have the upper hand and I just want to be fair.
 
John -- I just went through this in December with the avionics shop that did my upgrade. Also went through a nasty one in the 90s with an autopilot installation. The bottom line is whether you were issued a quote or an estimate.

If you have a quote, they are bound to deliver the project for the quoted amounted UNLESS specific changes to the quote were agreed upon by you and them. In those cases, an updated quote or a separate quote for the agreed upon additional work is created. So, if they said it was $50,000 to install A, B and to interface it to C -- they are bound to that price. If they get into the project and find issues, you have no obligation to incur any additional costs -- it was their mistake for under quoting the job.

If you are working under an estimate, it is the wild, wild west. There is nothing binding and their estimate is just that. Hopefully, they kept you informed for the cost of the changes and no big surprises were found.

As an example, my avionics upgrade in December involved upgrading to a dual Aspen setup. My autopilot is capable of doing a single cue flight director. It was not presented on the original quote as being done and when I was asked if I wanted that capability, I received another quote for the additional work -- including parts & labor. My installation was to the penny matching the quotes I was given despite agreeing to additional quoted work.
 
I should have finished the rest of the story. in the 90s, I upgraded to an STEC 60-2. I was given a quote which included only installing the STEC unit (I had my mechanic remove the old system at his shop rate).

When the avionics shop sent me the bill, there was an additional $1,800 worth of labor charges that were not on the quote. They said to me they encountered problems and had more labor involved. Since I was working under a quote, I refused to pay the additional cost. My lawyer sent them a letter explaining the legality behind quotes and they released the plane to me without the additional charges.

The unfortunate problem is that many consumers are not aware of the difference between a quote and estimate. What I appreciated about the shop I worked with on this last round is that they stuck with the agreed upon quote and when additional options became available, they quoted it and I had a chance to agree to it. I also know they did some extra things that were not on the quote, like hooking up my fuel totalizer to the GPS to feed the fuel remaining stuff from the flight plan. Sure, it was just one wire, but it was going that extra distance is what i appreciated.
 
Both quotes/estimates say estimate at the top of the sheets, actually they both have the same estimate number on them. The president of the company and I both refer to these documents as "quotes" which may or may not be important at the end of the day. I have totalled up the equipment, at advertised prices and came up with $64,700.00 plus the quote has $1640 or $2706 for unnamed parts, which I assume are wire and connectors. So that is 67,400.00 for equipment and parts, I do have another $1500 that I agreed to for moving the autopilot mode selector which is mostly labor. So that puts us at $69,000.00 plus labor. The original quote/estimate was for $84,000.00 plus the autopilot mode controller $1500.00, should be $85,500 plus we had an interior shop remove and re-install the headliner, $1000?. Anything between $87-90K would be fine with me. The original quote was $11,500 in labor, later quote was $31,487.00 for labor.:yikes: I truly understand the parts part of it, if we need a wobblygoogle connector to make the autopilot work with the G-600, I'm OK with that, but the labor is much easier to control.:dunno:
And today was the end of the 6th week. :mad2:

Marauder said:
John -- I just went through this in December with the avionics shop that did my upgrade. Also went through a nasty one in the 90s with an autopilot installation. The bottom line is whether you were issued a quote or an estimate.

If you have a quote, they are bound to deliver the project for the quoted amounted UNLESS specific changes to the quote were agreed upon by you and them. In those cases, an updated quote or a separate quote for the agreed upon additional work is created. So, if they said it was $50,000 to install A, B and to interface it to C -- they are bound to that price. If they get into the project and find issues, you have no obligation to incur any additional costs -- it was their mistake for under quoting the job.

If you are working under an estimate, it is the wild, wild west. There is nothing binding and their estimate is just that. Hopefully, they kept you informed for the cost of the changes and no big surprises were found.

As an example, my avionics upgrade in December involved upgrading to a dual Aspen setup. My autopilot is capable of doing a single cue flight director. It was not presented on the original quote as being done and when I was asked if I wanted that capability, I received another quote for the additional work -- including parts & labor. My installation was to the penny matching the quotes I was given despite agreeing to additional quoted work.
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