DP/STAR thought

Let'sgoflying!

Let'sgoflying!

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Dave Taylor
Why not put an E (or N, S, W) beside the name of each, indicating the general direction from the airport?

That way, when going to a new airport we would not have to scan a dozen plates to choose for filing (or to be ready for assignment); we'd only have to look at 3 or so.

Or, what easier way do you have?
 
I was always surprised they never did that. It may become less important as EFB and other software based procedure advisors become more sophisticated, but it is still a good idea.
 
For the most part, any SID you get is a vector SID with nothing to it so it's not hard even if you're unfamiliar.
 
jordane93 said:
For the most part, in a piston single. Turboprop and jets are different story
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Not around here. I almost always get a procedural SID. STARs are also very popular even when they don't make a lot of sense for a slow little guy.
 
jordane93 said:
For the most part, in a piston single. Turboprop and jets are different story
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Clark1961 said:
Not around here. I almost always get a procedural SID. STARs are also very popular even when they don't make a lot of sense for a slow little guy.
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Might be a NY thing. The LONG ISLAND FIVE is not the only SID in the US. :D

Like you, Clark, I've gotten more procedural SIDS than pure vector ones, even from airports where a pure vector one is available.
 
When the airlines own ATC, all of this will be even worse. Their massive flight planning computers know all about which routes to take, etc. And, they are tied to the FAA's central air traffic management system. What until Delta, United, American, and Southwest own it all.
 
aterpster said:
When the airlines own ATC, all of this will be even worse. Their massive flight planning computers know all about which routes to take, etc. And, they are tied to the FAA's central air traffic management system. What until Delta, United, American, and Southwest own it all.
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Just in time to die, maybe. Truly self driving cars will be a game changer, and not all effects have been anticipated by all parties. Sure... you'll still fly coast to coast, but if I could do something else while being driven, I think I'd view longer trips by car a lot more favorably. It's also possible self driving cars will allow higher speed limits, since the revenue generating "safety" argument disappears.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Might be a NY thing. The LONG ISLAND FIVE is not the only SID in the US. :D

Like you, Clark, I've gotten more procedural SIDS than pure vector ones, even from airports where a pure vector one is available.
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Ya, I'm thinkin the northeast is a bit different since folks are mostly going to an airway rather than a direct route. It's predictable here, SID for 40 or 50 miles then direct when handing off to center. I think Approach does it so they can practice ignoring us. With enough practice they can ignore us on approach too. I'm mostly joking, mostly. They are great on flight following and they are great at getting us on our way IFR, but when it gets busy maybe not so much great on arrival.

The STAR that gets me riled (not really) is going into FTG from the west when DEN is landing north. I know I'm not going to get to cross the DEN arrival corridor, Approach knows they aren't going to let me cross the arrival corridor, but have to use the STAR all the way to Broomfield before they vector around DEN to the north.
 
Clark1961 said:
Ya, I'm thinkin the northeast is a bit different since folks are mostly going to an airway rather than a direct route.
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It's not even that. As busy as the Denver airspace is, it's nothing compared to the northeast. The distance between KDEN and KABQ is not much different than KBOS to KDCA, but take a look at the difference in traffic.

A relatively busy Class B and two relatively sleepy Class Cs (KAPA all by itself is busier) vs. 4 Class Bs , two of which contain 3 primary airports (and a couple of nearby Cs). Keeping us out of the way takes a lot more hands-on work.
 
Consensus is?
Chart-makers have no idea what we put up with, and it would help?
Or; stifle your childish ideas - Real Pilots don't mind wading through 10 plates to find 2 that might apply.

IE
Joe Pool 9 becomes Joe Pool 9S
Garland 6 becomes Garland 6E
 
I do think it's a reasonable idea, but doesn't always work. There are those times ATC manages to wrap you around to the north when you are approaching from west.

But I do think it would serve a purpose and help flight planning.
 
How would you name a SID that serves multiple directions? There are myriad examples of this.

If it included all applicable cardinal directions, that might work.
 
coma24 said:
How would you name a SID that serves multiple directions? There are myriad examples of this.

If it included all applicable cardinal directions, that might work.
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It would be fairly easy to put multiple directions.
 
aterpster said:
When the airlines own ATC, all of this will be even worse. Their massive flight planning computers know all about which routes to take, etc. And, they are tied to the FAA's central air traffic management system. What until Delta, United, American, and Southwest own it all.
Click to expand...
Wait until Delta, United, American and Southwest have an election to see which ones guy is going to be the DWGTBIC. dude what's going to be in charge
 
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