DOT Will Require ALL Hobby Drones to be Registered

dans2992 said:
There are a couple of DJI Phantom drones on the FAA registry - with N-numbers....


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Those are part of a 333 exemption for commercial ops, chances are if it has a N number you probably don't need to worry about it doing something stupid.

This potential regulation is stupid, it won't change anything, but hey, if it makes you guys feel better that's cool I guess.

The smart thing is to increase UAS education, NOTAM filing, etc NOT some laughable heavy handed approach, sadly these days people think laws and government and the universal answer :idea:
 
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I think the registration makes sense if it is accompanied by required education. For geo-fenced drones, just require education (an online test?) to enable the drone. Of course, home builders wouldn't have that restriction, but the community could promote education. Probably better to license the operator than the UAS, though.
 
Stewartb said:
Does registering your vehicles prevent accidents? No, it has nothing to do with accident rates. Licensing the operator may have a better impact but clearly even that doesn't always work. This is nothing more than an attempt to shut the anti's up because there is no practical solution.

The illusion of action. It's what government does.
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I think it does. Because we know who, we can hold them responsible for their behavior. I believe that works as a deterrent. If there was guaranteed zero consequences I would likely drive much differently.
 
Lindberg said:
This begs the question, which was, what is it the issue? What specifically are you concerned about, and how does the proposed solution address that concern?

Car registration is primarily a tax. It has nothing to do with safety.
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Well, the registration FEE is certainly a tax, but not the registration itself. Indeed, license plates on cars are an asset in deterring bad behavior.

As far as my concerns? That would be everything from collisions to privacy. Yes, I believe it's only a matter of time before we see a collision. There have been reports of close calls already.
 
Kritchlow said:
I think it does. Because we know who, we can hold them responsible for their behavior. I believe that works as a deterrent. If there was guaranteed zero consequences I would likely drive much differently.
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How are you going to get people to register their drones? Even if it is done at sale, they can be resold by private parties, given to someone else, or homemade.
 
Everskyward said:
Unless we are willing to spend the money to have thousands of drone police out checking everyone's drone registrations I don't think this idea will work.
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Well, you'll always have folks who won't follow the rules. For those who do follow the rules, they will be more educated to participate in the system.
 
Everskyward said:
How are you going to get people to register their drones? Even if it is done at sale, they can be resold by private parties, given to someone else, or homemade.
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Don't know.. How do you get people to register their airplanes?
 
Kritchlow said:
Well, you'll always have folks who won't follow the rules. For those who do follow the rules, they will be more educated to participate in the system.
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People who follow the rules are not likely to fly their drones in places where they are a hazard, registered or not.
 
Everskyward said:
Ok but is is really easy to purchase a drone (quadcopter). There are 400 pages of them on Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_s...eywords=quadcopter&sprefix=quadcopter,aps,649

Proving that all these purchasers are educated and drones registered would be a huge task way out of proportion to the potential danger. IMHO.
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For something already on the market, possibly. For something unreleased, just use a software lock that prevents it being used until they enter a registration code. Then provide the code on a website after the user reads a couple of pages about safe use and takes a quick test. Not foolproof, but the idea is to make sure that the responsible owner is aware of the information.
 
gprellwitz said:
For something already on the market, possibly. For something unreleased, just use a software lock that prevents it being used until they enter a registration code. Then provide the code on a website after the user reads a couple of pages about safe use and takes a quick test. Not foolproof, but the idea is to make sure that the responsible owner is aware of the information.
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I don't think that will prevent someone who wants to fly one in an irresponsible manner from doing so. Like someone else in this thread mentioned. Drones will become like laser pointers. There isn't a whole lot you can do about them other than try to go after the individuals who are using them illegally. Those who would be a nuisance wouldn't bother to register them or would register them under a fake name and address.
 
Everskyward said:
People who follow the rules are not likely to fly their drones in places where they are a hazard, registered or not.
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To some extent, yes, but human behavior is not binary. I think many people comply with some laws and not others, or they may deviate from 100% compliance to the extent they think they can get away with and/or can rationalize to themselves.
 
Palmpilot said:
To some extent, yes, but human behavior is not binary. I think many people comply with some laws and not others, or they may deviate from 100% compliance to the extent they think they can get away with and/or can rationalize to themselves.
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Yes, of course. But will requiring registration have enough benefit to make sense on the cost/benefit ratio?
 
I don't see how the DOT can require registration of hobby drones when congress statutorily proscribed such rules (congressional statutes name the FAA administrator, not its parent organization, as the agency with jurisdiction):
SEC. 336. SPECIAL RULE FOR MODEL AIRCRAFT.
(a) IN GENERAL.—Notwithstanding any other provision of law relating to the incorporation of unmanned aircraft systems into Federal Aviation Administration plans and policies, including this subtitle, the Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration may not promulgate any rule or regulation regarding a model aircraft, or an aircraft being developed as a model aircraft, if—
(1) the aircraft is flown strictly for hobby or recreational use;
(2) the aircraft is operated in accordance with a community based set of safety guidelines and within the programming of a nationwide community-based organization;
(3) the aircraft is limited to not more than 55 pounds unless otherwise certified through a design, construction, inspection, flight test, and operational safety program administered by a community-based organization;
(4) the aircraft is operated in a manner that does not interfere with and gives way to any manned aircraft; and
(5) when flown within 5 miles of an airport, the operator of the aircraft provides the airport operator and the airport air traffic control tower (when an air traffic facility is located at the airport) with prior notice of the operation (model aircraft operators flying from a permanent location within 5 miles of an airport should establish a mutually-agreed upon operating procedure with the airport operator and the airport air traffic
control tower (when an air traffic facility is located at the airport)).
​
Full text of law: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-112publ95/pdf/PLAW-112publ95.pdf

I predict that what actually happens on Monday, if anything, will not match at all the story that is circulating in the news.
 
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According to NBC News, the Department of Transportation plans to have all drones in the country registered by Christmas.
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Christmas? Christmas 10 weeks from now?

You gotta be kidding. What government nitwit came up with this completely unworkable scheme?
 
Doesn't anyone remember the stupid **** they did when they were 10,11,12 years old?

No rules applied to idiots like we were.

Pre-teens live on Pluto.
 
Internet drone sales must be going through the roof today. I might buy a couple (more) just because. :)
 
Kritchlow said:
Don't know.. How do you get people to register their airplanes?
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When the last time you saw a high school kid crash his airplane, run over, put the entire wreckage into his backpack and run off :lol:
 
3393RP said:
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Christmas? Christmas 10 weeks from now?

You gotta be kidding. What government nitwit came up with this completely unworkable scheme?
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Which Christmas? After all we are talking about the government. Another revenue enhancement tax. Not going to solve any of the drone related problems.
 
gprellwitz said:
For something already on the market, possibly. For something unreleased, just use a software lock that prevents it being used until they enter a registration code. Then provide the code on a website after the user reads a couple of pages about safe use and takes a quick test. Not foolproof, but the idea is to make sure that the responsible owner is aware of the information.
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^^^^ Better. Much better. ^^^^

That is a tech solution to something. I would task the seller of the drone to keep track of it. I've had enough of the feds. The issue with that is where is the info in the DB? I guess the feds would have to keep the DB up to date. Locked out until the registration code is entered. Then if it's sold we can always go back to the orig registered owner and tell them they own $300 million dollars because their registered drone just took out a 737.
 
Hmmm, I see a new market for "80%" drones hahaha.. who's in to get this started with me!?!?!
 
Everskyward said:
People who follow the rules are not likely to fly their drones in places where they are a hazard, registered or not.
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Even if you try to follow the rules, sometimes you lose positive control of the drone.

That happened this week where a drone took off possibly chasing a GPS coordinate in China, were it was built. It crashed at the Racine, Wisconsin airport, which has a lot of GA traffic, including some jet traffic.

The owner came forward with his explanation. I wonder if he would have come forward if it crashed into the windshield of a Citation on short final.

http://m.jsonline.com/news/wisconsi...-at-racine-airport-b99597937z1-333229981.html
 
My wife got me one for my birthday this year. Came with a software limitation that it won't climb beyond 100meters. I'm sure this can be hacked, I kind of want to because there's also a limit that it won't go beyond 100meters from it's starting point either....

Anyway something like that's probably going to be more effective than registration. The government can't even keep pilots from flying real airplanes without a pilot's certificate, I don't see a registration card on what is essentially a toy going anywhere.
 
nddons said:
Even if you try to follow the rules, sometimes you lose positive control of the drone.

That happened this week where a drone took off possibly chasing a GPS coordinate in China, were it was built. It crashed at the Racine, Wisconsin airport, which has a lot of GA traffic, including some jet traffic.

The owner came forward with his explanation. I wonder if he would have come forward if it crashed into the windshield of a Citation on short final.

http://m.jsonline.com/news/wisconsi...-at-racine-airport-b99597937z1-333229981.html
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And being registered would help, how?
 
James331 said:
When the last time you saw a high school kid crash his airplane, run over, put the entire wreckage into his backpack and run off :lol:
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You're making my point. A twelve year old would not be registering the drone. It would require an adult, and that would educate and hold them responsible. I think that may reduce the twelve year old "flying recklessly".
 
How would this work? My kid's boy scout troop met today and built 14 drones (only 10 fly).

Will the 9-10 year olds register these? Do they have to make a data plate? Does each kid pick their own serial number?

The local community college (also today) has a STEM program. Today's session? You guessed it, build your own drone.

Who pays for this? Who enforces it? Who provides the security for this massive data base to make sure the newly registered 9 year old's info doesn't get hacked? Will operator licences be required? Medicals (the air Force requires them)?

Can't imagine how this doesn't grow into another out of control bureaucracy.
 
Kritchlow said:
You're making my point. A twelve year old would not be registering the drone. It would require an adult, and that would educate and hold them responsible. I think that may reduce the twelve year old "flying recklessly".
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They're registering drones, not drone operators.......so far....
 
Everskyward said:
And being registered would help, how?
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If you were flying into Racine and a drone smashed your windshield leaving you and your copilot unable to see because of the blood running down your face, resulting in an unfortunate CFIT and killing the entire management team of Acme Industries, there can be two outcomes:

1. Without registration, it will be yet one more UFO bringing down a business jet. There will be wringing of the hands in DC, and after the kill rate starts to climb, all GA aircraft will be required to install $100,000 of technology designed to prevent tragedies like this from ever happening again;

or

2. With registration, the identity of the 18-year old owner of the drone will be known to the FAA and local LEOs, because they found it in the wreckage. It turns out he was filming the flight for profit in order to become a "YouTube Sensation." He is indicted, charged, and sentence to 48 years in prison for 8 charges of manslaughter (6 execs and 2 crew). This has a chilling effect on drone operators, and states start to crack down on people who recklessly via the airspeed typically used by high-speed aircraft.
 
jbarrass said:
How would this work?
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All that exists as of today are some claims by an MSNBC reporter. The claims with respect to the alleged timetable are so unbelievable that the "scoop" is likely wrong in all its details.

Unless there was a stealth NPRM by the DOT, the requirements of the APA (Administrative Procedures Act) haven't been followed. It would take months for the DOT to place rules into effect if they properly follow the legal way of doing things, never mind the logistical machinery the DOT would have to put in place to handle the registrations if they managed to get such a regulation put in place.

There is also the not to so small matter that such a registration regulation may be against the law. Legal challenges would very likely occur.
 
nddons said:
If you were flying into Racine and a drone smashed your windshield leaving you and your copilot unable to see because of the blood running down your face, resulting in an unfortunate CFIT and killing the entire management team of Acme Industries, there can be two outcomes:

1. Without registration, it will be yet one more UFO bringing down a business jet. There will be wringing of the hands in DC, and after the kill rate starts to climb, all GA aircraft will be required to install $100,000 of technology designed to prevent tragedies like this from ever happening again;

or

2. With registration, the identity of the 18-year old owner of the drone will be known to the FAA and local LEOs, because they found it in the wreckage. It turns out he was filming the flight for profit in order to become a "YouTube Sensation." He is indicted, charged, and sentence to 48 years in prison for 8 charges of manslaughter (6 execs and 2 crew). This has a chilling effect on drone operators, and states start to crack down on people who recklessly via the airspeed typically used by high-speed aircraft.
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So you are using this scare tactic. Nice, but it doesn't work on me. Registered or not, I'll still be dead.

You're much more likely to hit an unregistered big bird, or another airplane.

Edit: I see what you are really worried about is the possibility of mandating drone avoidance technology in GA airplanes. I think I'll put on my tinfoil hat. It might protect me against drones coming in the windshield too.
 
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gprellwitz said:
For geo-fenced drones, just require education (an online test?) to enable the drone.
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Geo-fencing can be easily beaten by GPS Spoofing as was recently demonstrated at the annual DEFCON Hacking Conference. Geo-fencing is yet another "bill of goods" being sold to the collective to make them think the guvmint has it all figured out...
 
Kritchlow said:
You're making my point. A twelve year old would not be registering the drone. It would require an adult, and that would educate and hold them responsible. I think that may reduce the twelve year old "flying recklessly".
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Cause 12 year olds won't know where to look on the internet to find all the fake registration IDs that will be there long before any law goes live.:rofl:
 
S Joslin said:
Geo-fencing can be easily beaten by GPS Spoofing as was recently demonstrated at the annual DEFCON Hacking Conference. Geo-fencing is yet another "bill of goods" being sold to the collective to make them think the guvmint has it all figured out...
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I fully agree and have publicly stated that this will only work for those willing to abide by the rules. It does, however, give us at least one avenue to help make sure that they're aware of the rules.

If they're actively working to defeat the fencing, they can hardly argue later that they were unaware that they shouldn't be flying over the airport, in the ADIZ, etc.
 
Phoenix said:
Cause 12 year olds won't know where to look on the internet to find all the fake registration IDs that will be there long before any law goes live.:rofl:
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What makes it any different than registering a car?
 
Kritchlow said:
What makes it any different than registering a car?
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Nothing they are exactly the same. Before car registration was enacted 12 year olds were driving around in automobiles crashing into horse buggies left and right. Fortunately our government smartened up required car registration and put those little pre teen punks back in their soap box derby cars where they could hardly hurt anyone.
 
Phoenix said:
Nothing they are exactly the same. Before car registration was enacted 12 year olds were driving around in automobiles crashing into horse buggies left and right. Fortunately our government smartened up required car registration and put those little pre teen punks back in their soap box derby cars where they could hardly hurt anyone.
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I see you took your time to give a well thought out answer.
 
Everskyward said:
So you are using this scare tactic. Nice, but it doesn't work on me. Registered or not, I'll still be dead.



You're much more likely to hit an unregistered big bird, or another airplane.



Edit: I see what you are really worried about is the possibility of mandating drone avoidance technology in GA airplanes. I think I'll put on my tinfoil hat. It might protect me against drones coming in the windshield too.
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Mari, I'm not trying to convince you of anything. You asked me a question, and I gave you my thoughts.

To answer your edit, I actually hadn't even thought of that until I was formulating my example. I thought it would be a prototypical governmental response. ;)
 
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