Does ground/clearance delivery know the phrase "learner pilot"?

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by schmookeeg, Nov 12, 2022.

  1. Half Fast

    Half Fast Touchdown! Greaser!

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    It’s not too late to start. A good pilot is always learning, y’know.
    ;)
     
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  2. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Neither did I nor any of my students. I always treated the call as something to be used as needed. OTOH, I was once flying and heard a pilot say "student pilot" in every single readback, even

    ATC: Altimeter 3012.
    Pilot: 3012. Student pilot.
     
  3. frfly172

    frfly172 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Do you think that when you call student pilot,that ATC may respond with student controller? Just a thought.
     
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  4. RussR

    RussR En-Route

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    I think I'm most impressed that you still have a computer with a functioning CD drive!
     
  5. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Touchdown! Greaser!

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    It's now a download rather than a CD.

    my desktop doesn't have a CD drive but my old laptop )not used much) does.
     
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  6. TCABM

    TCABM En-Route

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    Really? This is about the 69th time the subject has come up here since idiocracy was enshrined in the instructor handbook a couple years ago.

    https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media...ehind-the-faas-switch-from-student-to-learner

    Like a lot of things, the FAA thinks it knows and understand adult learning theory and instructional systems design. Instead, they just employ people who have heard the terms before.

    My two word summary for that would get me banned.
     
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  7. IK04

    IK04 En-Route

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    What does it say on the STUDENT Pilot certificate?
     
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  8. guest user

    guest user Pre-takeoff checklist

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    From the AOPA article:
    This is definitely government at work. "People thought of the term in it's proper context. Obviously, we could not allow this to continue, so we had meetings to change it."

    ---------------

    In all seriousness, it probably went more that someone went to a flight school to become an ATP after having already been issued a cert. However, the school required the person to still use "Student Pilot" as a standard call and they were offended that they might be confused with a real student pilot that it scarred them for life.

    Then, this person being the obviously thin skinned person they are, got moved up the ladder because their co-workers didn't want to deal w/ their sensitivities. This continued until one day they accidentally moved this person to a position where pushing to change "student" to "learner" was within their power. The aviation world has never been the same.
     
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  9. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Thank goodness I have never heard of a flight school that required (or even seriously suggested) anyone other than a holder of a student pilot certificate (let alone an ATP candidate) use the phrase with ATC.
     
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  10. Jim K

    Jim K En-Route

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    My primary instructor told me to use the "student pilot" call when I took my first solo xc (to Peoria!). I naively thought that if I told CMI when I got flight following, they would somehow pass that information to PIA. PIA tower then, assuming I knew what I was doing, sequenced me tight in front of a CRJ, which then had to go around. I'll never forget that. In my defense, I flew the plane normally, and she shouldn't have made me #1, but In hindsight there was an unspoken "I'm making you #1, keep it tight" that went right over the head of this "learner".

    I think @Racerx nailed the reasoning.... some puppy mill instrument student got called that and took offense because he's "NOT a 'student pilot'!". Because we no longer teach kids to deal with the slightest bit of being offended (that's called a micro- aggression now), we have to change the language.

    As to whether ATC would understand "learner"....I bet it would confuse them, but you'd still get the "watch this guy, he might be an idiot" handling you're looking for ;)
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2022
  11. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Long before this silliness, I was trying to figure out how to refer to those who do recurrent training with me. Whenever I talked about a "student," at least 90% - pilots and non-pilots alike - assumed I was talking about someone brand new to flying. I went through through "flight client" ("client" alone means something special in context), "trainee," and a few others. I don't use "learner" and won't even consider it. I think it's silly and pretty meaningless. But I accept the basic premise that the unmodified word, "student " is typically understood to be someone who holds a student pilot certificate (or none at all) without having to use 5,000 year old biases against youth. I think that's true more broadly than aviation. That's why we have been referring to "college student," "grad student," etc. for many, many years.

    (Fortunately, my CFI never told me I had to use "student pilot." Just another tool to use as needed. Too bad about those CFIs who didn't trust their "student pilots" enough and told them to use it in all communications.)
     
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  12. nauga

    nauga Administrator Management Council Member PoA Technical Administrator

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    Pilot Under Instruction, pronounced "poo-ey."

    edit: or maybe 'Duallist'

    Nauga,
    and a title, a callsign, and a style of flying
     
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  13. eman1200

    eman1200 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    "unfortunate soul" ? :cool: :happydance: :cool:




    I kid, I kid.....
     
  14. SkyChaser

    SkyChaser Cleared for Takeoff

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    Mine is shorter to say - pilot-in-training, pronounced "Pit". Only one syllable! :D

    And in a world where most people seem to have an inability to spell things properly, you might want to steer clear of duallist to avoid your students deciding to fight out who gets the plane that day. ;)
     
  15. Matthew

    Matthew Touchdown! Greaser!

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    It’s a “license to learn”, so aren’t we ALL students?
     
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  16. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I'm sure there are those who feel that way ;)
     
  17. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Now you've done it! Supported the term "learner"!
     
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  18. Rgbeard

    Rgbeard En-Route

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  19. Half Fast

    Half Fast Touchdown! Greaser!

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    What, learners don’t study?!

    Sometimes I get really tired of this silliness....
     
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  20. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser!

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  21. JEB

    JEB Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Who the hell told you "Student" is a bad word and when did you start to care about this stuff?
     
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  22. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Touchdown! Greaser!

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    “Student” is sexist…the root is “stud”.
     
  23. hindsight2020

    hindsight2020 Final Approach

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    marriage?

    *checks siiiiiiiiiiixx!* :D
     
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  24. guest user

    guest user Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Using that logic, couldn't we just call them 'billionaires', since a billionaire is free to do whatever they wish?

    I mean, lets go ahead and cut out the "work to support yourself and maybe save a few dollars" and jump straight to "financially independent".

    Or would that be a case of even the bleeding hearts aren't that oblivious to reality?
     
  25. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Touchdown! Greaser!

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    But at least now we know the FAA isn't behind as many think. They're on the cutting edge!
     
  26. TCABM

    TCABM En-Route

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  27. Tarheelpilot

    Tarheelpilot Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Sounds like you hang out with buttholes.

    That explains why you like POA.
     
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  28. Shawn

    Shawn En-Route

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    If I was ATC and some jackwggon used the term "learner pilot" I would make sure in the next transmission they understood how little they had "learned" up to that point!

    As a pilot I would be silently judging you through the radio.

    You gotta be kidding me....

    "Student Pilot" and "New Pilot" were the two best useful terms my CFI taught me when needed if a transmission was not explicitly clear and understood that let me accelerate my confidence and abilities with ATC.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2022
  29. DesertNomad

    DesertNomad Pattern Altitude

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    Your green plastic card does not say “Learner Pilot”.
     
  30. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Maybe the should change the "student pilot certificate" into a "learner's permit"?
     
  31. SkyChaser

    SkyChaser Cleared for Takeoff

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    When I was learning to drive, I had a learner's permit but I was still a student driver...I have decided that people simply don't understand the English language, and don't understand the concept of words being equivalent and possessing the same meaning but having different forms for their different usages.
     
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  32. TommyG

    TommyG Pattern Altitude

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    Don’t cave into peer pressure, keep using student if you want. I don’t use learner pilot in any terminology. Just like I will keep using BFR.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2022
  33. DesertNomad

    DesertNomad Pattern Altitude

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    Only the FAA is pushing the change from student to learner. When I am sitting around the office with other CFIs, we talk about students, not learners.
     
  34. Skyrys62

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    Nice..

    I say blend it up.

    Studlearner.

    I mean, we're all welcome to identify how we want right?
     
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  35. RudyP

    RudyP Cleared for Takeoff

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    Perfectly put!
     
  36. Half Fast

    Half Fast Touchdown! Greaser!

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    At least in my experience, I don't think that it's really necessary to tell them. Usually after I exchange a couple of calls with ATC, the controller will say, "Let me guess - you're a student pilot, aren't you?"
     
  37. nauga

    nauga Administrator Management Council Member PoA Technical Administrator

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    The FAA wordsmithed a couple of non-directive documents. The change didn't affect they way any of us should be operating.

    Nauga,
    and another balloon race
     
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  38. schmookeeg

    schmookeeg En-Route

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    This vitriolic reaction makes me want to use the phrase more now. :D
     
  39. Ed Haywood

    Ed Haywood Pattern Altitude

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    In Florida, just adopt a heavy foreign accent and they'll assume you are a puppy mill flyer.

    Gotta hand it to them, though. I speak a couple of foreign languages, and I cannot fathom trying to deal with ATC in them.
     
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  40. RudyP

    RudyP Cleared for Takeoff

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    Very true... Sometimes it is a little cringey but then I think about how stupid I would sound in German...