Does ATC care how you enter a hold?

Discussion in 'Cleared for the Approach' started by gbanker, May 28, 2020.

  1. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

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    Interestingly, the Instrument ACS requires that but the ATP ACS doesn’t.
     
  2. Hacker

    Hacker Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Yes, I've had that before too, and I agree...they generally have no idea what they're looking at, hehe.
     
  3. Kenny Phillips

    Kenny Phillips En-Route

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    Don't you just press the button on your nav system and do what it says?
     
  4. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

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    Only if it tells me to press the button.
     
  5. Jmcmanna

    Jmcmanna Pre-takeoff checklist

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    No one cares how you get into the hold. Someone in this thread said that if their GPS won’t direct their hold entry they won’t hold...that would require declaring an emergency and scrutiny from FAA if you’re unable (or unwilling) to comply with an ATC instruction...so be careful with that move. If you file an IFR flight plan, the expectation is that you can follow basic ATC instructions (like navigating into a hold). If your navigation system is malfunctioning, that may be an emergency.

    If terrain isn’t a factor, ATC isn’t watching your entry and as long as you’re more or less in the vicinity of the holding fix, the objective of the hold is being met. On the other hand, if you’re in a non-radar environment, botching the hold entry could potentially be fatal if you’re operating near terrain.

    I once issued the same holding instructions to two 737s, same airline. One did the hold I issued, the other did the 180 degree reciprocal of the instruction. Since The point of the hold was to wait for weather to pass, and I just wanted them to stay close to a particular VOR, it didn’t matter, and I didn’t say anything. ATC isn’t out to get anyone for minor infractions of no consequence. If you need a vector to get yourself set up, ask for it.
     
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  6. aterpster

    aterpster En-Route

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    "No one" meaning everyone involved in flight operations or "no one," meaning no one in ATC?
     
  7. Jmcmanna

    Jmcmanna Pre-takeoff checklist

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    No one meaning ATC.
     
  8. aterpster

    aterpster En-Route

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    Correct. ATC couldn't care less.
     
  9. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Listen to da man....o_O
     
  10. Daz

    Daz Filing Flight Plan

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    I was told by a DPE that because most people screw up a teardrop, that you should instead fly a parallel entry being careful to stay on the protected side.
     
  11. jonvcaples

    jonvcaples Pre-takeoff checklist

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    The parallel entry seems superfluous. Direct or teardrop make more sense and keep you on the side with more protected airspace. Just a thought.
     
  12. dmspilot

    dmspilot En-Route

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    Is it possible you have that backward? I think most pilots prefer teardrop.
     
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  13. chemgeek

    chemgeek Pattern Altitude

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    The teardrop entry is a pretty easy course reversal method in a hold. In real life I probably fly this more than anything else.
     
  14. MBDiagMan

    MBDiagMan En-Route

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    I think it can’t be terribly sacred. The reason I say that is that I remember my son in law telling me that on his instrument checkride he was headed for the hold and asked the DPE if he could use a different hold method than it called for and the DPE was good with it. He might have been only a few degrees away from the one that was called for. I don’t remember details.
     
  15. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Touchdown! Greaser!

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    As others said, a lot of people prefer teardrop to parallel.

    But, two points on the part I bolded.
    1. The holding side is more protected than the non holding side, but both sides are protected.
    2. If you look at the official description of the parallel entry, it is flown on the non holding side.