Do you vet a pilot before you let him take you for a flight?

N918KT

N918KT

Line Up and Wait
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KT
A pilot at the airport asked me if I wanted to go with him for a flight someday. I said I would love to. Who knows, maybe this would light up a spark in me to finish my flight training one day. I have known him for a while now and he seems like a nice guy. I never flown with a GA pilot before except doing flight training with a CFI.

However, my step father said to me that I should see if he is capable of taking me for a flight. Like do I know him well enough, how many hours he has, what kind of plane he flies, what ratings he has, is he a safe pilot etc.? Is this overkill? Should I really evaluate a pilot's skills, ratings, and hours he has before I go up with him?

Do you vet a pilot who you never flown with before before you go up for a flight with him/her? Is this overkill or a good idea?
 
Well, if his name is in the FAA airmen database, he was certified as being competent. I'm not sure how you find out if one is "a safe pilot", but I suppose you could ask who his CFI was, lol. For a simple VFR flight in a non-HP aircraft, it's unlikely there is anything to worry about. Actual instrument conditions in a Lancair? I would likely be declining the invitation until I was more familiar with him.


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Brad Z said:
You're an adult. What do you think is necessary?
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Thanks for the responses so far everyone. Brad, to be honest, I never heard of anyone vetting a pilot about their skills or experiences except if they are evaluating a CFI. I always thought you just climb in and go if you think you could trust him/her with your life and you know them well enough.
 
Probably meaningless and short sighted but if I am sitting in the front and have access to the controls I don't worry about it too much. The only question I would ask myself is if this person were to do something that made me uncomfortable and I said don't or knock it off, would they?
 
N918KT said:
Thanks for the responses so far everyone. Brad, to be honest, I never heard of anyone vetting a pilot about their skills or experiences except if they are evaluating a CFI. I always thought you just climb in and go if you think you could trust him/her with your life and you know them well enough.
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I've done it.
http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1574147&postcount=79

Me: "Hey man nice commander"

"Thanks. I just moved here from colorado and was going to go for a spin. want to come along?"

"Yes!!!!!!!!"

He is now my friend Stephen.
 
I had a casual friend ask me if I would go out with him as safety pilot on an IMC kind of day. I declined, claiming a conflict.

Later I told him that I wanted to first fly safety pilot with him in VMC before gong into potential IMC. He was OK with that.

If I have access to the controls and the situation is benign I am comfortable. Beyond that I want to have experience with the pilot before agreeing to go.,
 
Thanks for the replies everyone. It seems that most of these responses are a pilot taking another pilot for a ride. I actually wanted to ask should a non-pilot or student pilot evaluate a licensed pilot before going up for a flight. Do non-pilots or student pilots have the knowledge to know what to evaluate in a pilot whom they never flew with before?
 
You can tell a lot about attitude just from a brief chat.

I've only been nervous about someone else in the plane twice. Both times, they were right seat passengers, and I didn't choose them. And both were issues with impulsiveness and keeping away from controls at critical times. It's a bit unnerving to try to approach with a 15 year old kid stabbing at the rudder pedals. I made him slide the seat all the way back and sit on his hands, then landed that way and put him in the back seat for the return.

The biggest chance I took was flying safety pilot for someone on this board who I hadn't met in person before. So I chatted with him about what he wanted to do, and how he wanted to do it, what his contingencies were, and so on. It was all quite reasonable, so I went. No problem at all.

The CAP pilots have all been vetted by a Form 5, and trained to respond to "knock it off." No problems there at all. At this point, I know all of them except the newest ones, but of course that wasn't always true.

For a non pilot, the question is the same as "would you get in a car with this guy?" If he's a screw off, hell no. If he's sensible, probably.
 
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Ive flown with people Ive just met. I know how to fly a plane, if things go south and it appears he wants to kill us both I have no problem giving a quick elbow jab to the jaw and saving my life. So far I have yet to have to do that, not even a close call. So Id say most pilots don't want to die and will be fairly competent. So go for the flight with him and enjoy it.

Now I had instructors ask to see my Cert and then him show me his.
 
simtech said:
Ive flown with people Ive just met. I know how to fly a plane, if things go south and it appears he wants to kill us both I have no problem giving a quick elbow jab to the jaw and saving my life. So far I have yet to have to do that, not even a close call. So Id say most pilots don't want to die and will be fairly competent. So go for the flight with him and enjoy it.

Now I had instructors ask to see my Cert and then him show me his.
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That's it
 
If I was to fly with someone I would be looking for them to have the same background
As I do, A family man or women with children, has a good job and lots of reasons to live. Also have recent flight experience as PIC in the past 30 days in make and model. Current medical a must.
 
I think this is a valid question, but one that never really occurred to me when I was first getting into aviation myself. The fact is, though all pilots are certified as competent by the FAA, plenty of pilots die each year… often as the result of poor decision making.

Obviously it's hard to know how someone flies until you get in an airplane with them, but over the course of several conversations it is often easy enough to figure out where their attitude is on the subject of flying. I know some pilots who I'd trust with my mother on the airplane, and others I'm convinced will end up as a splatter mark in a field somewhere. You can guess which ones I'll climb on board with!
 
Coloradokevin said:
I think this is a valid question, but one that never really occurred to me when I was first getting into aviation myself. The fact is, though all pilots are certified as competent by the FAA, plenty of pilots die each year… often as the result of poor decision making.

Obviously it's hard to know how someone flies until you get in an airplane with them, but over the course of several conversations it is often easy enough to figure out where their attitude is on the subject of flying. I know some pilots who I'd trust with my mother on the airplane, and others I'm convinced will end up as a splatter mark in a field somewhere. You can guess which ones I'll climb on board with!
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Yeah, like I said before, I never thought about asking a pilot what his qualifications or experiences are, but I think it probably is a good idea to ask. But I always thought it would be rude to ask a pilot their qualifications for the purpose of seeing if I think they are a safe pilot or not. It would seem like their piloting skills are inferior or not good enough if I reject them.
 
How do you know if the airplane is airworthy?
Ask him a few questions like:
Do you fly much?
Do you fly long cross countries?
How do you like your plane?

After what should be a normal conversation you will have a general idea if he is competent.
 
N918KT said:
Thanks for the responses so far everyone. Brad, to be honest, I never heard of anyone vetting a pilot about their skills or experiences except if they are evaluating a CFI. I always thought you just climb in and go if you think you could trust him/her with your life and you know them well enough.
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Sorry for the flippant response. You should evaluate flying with another pilot the same way you would evaluate anyone else who's life you put in your hands. Point is, its your risk tolerance, so if you think its necessary to vet them, by all means do so. As to how you'd vet a GA pilot is anyone's guess, short of asking others about the pilot.

Just because I'll jump in an airplane with anyone with a pulse doesn't mean you should.
 
Brad Z said:
Sorry for the flippant response. You should evaluate flying with another pilot the same way you would evaluate anyone else who's life you put in your hands. Point is, its your risk tolerance, so if you think its necessary to vet them, by all means do so. As to how you'd vet a GA pilot is anyone's guess, short of asking others about the pilot.

Just because I'll jump in an airplane with anyone with a pulse doesn't mean you should.
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It's okay Brad.

Yes, I would be nervous if I took a flight with someone whom I never flew with before. I guess I could ask him more about what kind of flying he does, experiences, etc in a casual conversation the next time I see him.

Thanks for the advice everyone!
 
N918KT said:
It's okay Brad.

Yes, I would be nervous if I took a flight with someone whom I never flew with before. I guess I could ask him more about what kind of flying he does, experiences, etc in a casual conversation the next time I see him.

Thanks for the advice everyone!
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Good plan. You can usually sniff out a really scary pilot in less than five minutes of conversation...possibly even less if he shows up wearing epaulets. :yikes:
 
Does the plane have a red handle on the roof? If so no worries. :eek:
 
I've had plenty of Young Eagle passengers to crazy things at all phases of flight. Never bothered me. If I can't fly an airplane with a few distractions I don't belong in the sky.
 
Assuming the person has a valid cert. Other than assessing their attitude/behavior, What else could the laymen ask/evaluate that a competent CFI/DPE/FAA Hasn't already when they issued the cert?

Do you ask to see credentials anytime you get in public transportation?
 
evapilotaz said:
If I was to fly with someone I would be looking for them to have the same background
As I do, A family man or women with children, has a good job and lots of reasons to live. Also have recent flight experience as PIC in the past 30 days in make and model. Current medical a must.
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What does it mean if they have produced offspring? Or has a good job?

I've met folks who have kids and great non aviation jobs who can't fly to PTS standards.

Having kids a a healthy paycheck means very little outside from the fact that you have kids and a good job

Also as someone who doesn't have kids I love my life and don't want to die, heck I live my life much more so compared to folks with kids, the travel, sports cars, nice dinner at nice locations, heck I got more of a reason to live than most ;)
 
I tried it once but the people in the jetway started to stack up and get mad.
 
James331 said:
What does it mean if they have produced offspring? Or has a good job?

I've met folks who have kids and great non aviation jobs who can't fly to PTS standards.

Having kids a a healthy paycheck means very little outside from the fact that you have kids and a good job

Also as someone who doesn't have kids I love my life and don't want to die, heck I live my life much more so compared to folks with kids, the travel, sports cars, nice dinner at nice locations, heck I got more of a reason to live than most ;)
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Hey I'm not trying to discriminate to who I fly with. I want to fly with people I have stuff in common with so I can get comfortable with the person prior to the flight. Also I would not fly back seat with someone I hardly know. Just saying.
 
evapilotaz said:
Hey I'm not trying to discriminate to who I fly with. I want to fly with people I have stuff in common with so I can get comfortable with the person prior to the flight. Also I would not fly back seat with someone I hardly know. Just saying.
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Understood.

I think we're are branching off here into two different subjects. Finding someone who you have a lot in common with is great for easily making friends but it means NOTHING for their abilities as an airman.

If you really want to vet someone watch them make a couple landings, or ask around the airport, you could always run them in the database.

Like someone else said, if I'm sitting upfront I'm not too concerned, if they hold a ticket chances are they won't do anything worse then some of my old students have done :yes:
 
I've known most of the pilots that I've have flown with, and those who were not were usually CFI or CFII. Best flight was a Pitts acro session.

Worst was an RV landing on a straight in a HIGH approach with speed above 90 over the numbers (that was the only non-CFI pilot and I had just met him). Touchdown was awful and I was sure our brakes must be nearly melted at taxi turn off ... yes I asked, and he indicated he landed like that all the time as he was nervous about stalling:mad2:

To the OP: get to know them first. The XC question earlier might be good as "my RV pilot" was fairly low time (150 hrs) and the only XC was his PPL XC.
 
Trust your gut; if he/she gives a good vibe, you're probably good to go. Just like getting in a car with a co-worker you know, but haven't driven with. You sort of know if they have good sense. . .

I've had only two "bad" experiences, both times flying in CAP, with guys I didn't know. One guy gave off a bad vibe, and I was in the right seat, as a skills evaluator (I'm not a CFI). Just a real, real bad stick, scary bad. CAP got rid of him after a couple years. I should have trusted me gut. . .

The other one fooled me completely, seemed fine, a CFI in the right seat. He panicked and lost his mind on a stable, garden-variety short field landing. Later turned out he never crossed the fence slower than 75 knots. 60 knots put him in fear for his life. The CFI part fooled me, since I was pretty sure the CFI checkride was tough. He slipped through, I guess.
 
N918KT said:
A pilot at the airport asked me if I wanted to go with him for a flight someday. I said I would love to. Who knows, maybe this would light up a spark in me to finish my flight training one day. I have known him for a while now and he seems like a nice guy. I never [flew] with a GA pilot before except doing flight training with a CFI.
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It's like getting in a car without first vetting the driver's skill. Apart from the weak evidence of whether they give an overall impression of conscientiousness, you have little information to rely on.
 
I flew with Dave once in the Viking, but I wasn't worried, he's already a vet.
 
Ask him/her "what is 64 radical 3?" If he/she can answer then fly.

Ask him/her who wrote:

“I wandered lonely as a cloud
That floats on high o’er vales and hills,
When all at once I saw a crowd,
A host of golden daffodils;
Beside the lake, beneath the trees,
Fluttering and dancing in the breeze.”

If he/she can answer then don't fly.

If he/she can answer both then flip a coin!

:)
 
I've given lots of rides and no passenger has ever asked to see my log book or valid medical... if they did I would retract my offer. I've flown with plenty of other pilots and one thing I notice is not everyone flies the same... a few people have referenced people landing 'hot', nothing wrong with burning up a long runway in a small GA plane if that's how they want to do it. A guy I fly with does his approaches with an extreme nose down attitude, not how I would do it but it works for him and his touchdown flares are more consistent than mine. Another guy always takes off at Vx trying to turn his 182 into a rocket ship, then when he comes to land he's always full speed entering downwind and before he turns base he's slowed down enough to dump full flaps and does a 180 to land. Works for him, not something I would do though.... either way put your big boy pants on and go flying, if during the flight you're uncomfortable tell the pilot you just got a text msg from someone and you need to get to the hospital... then never make eye contact with him again.
 
N918KT said:
A pilot at the airport asked me if I wanted to go with him for a flight someday. I said I would love to. Who knows, maybe this would light up a spark in me to finish my flight training one day.
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Just being nosy, but why do you need a "spark"? Git 'er done!
 
If you hang around the airport much and talk to others that fly the word does get around regarding those to avoid. If that information is not available to you go with them on a short flight and observe. If you are still a student however you may not have the knowledge to adequately asses his skills.

My daughter was dating a guy in HS that was a pilot. He wanted to fly her to a restaurant on a date and she was wise enough to ask me and not her mother. I told her I would need to fly with him first, so he took me to the same restaurant and I bought him a coke. He flew fine but never would hand the controls over to me (bastage). I let her go with him and she flew all over the place with him after that. He turned out to be a Richard (Dick) so she dumped him after a while.
 
Wasn't there a thread here a few months back about three younger people that got into an airplane with a guy who didn't have a certificate? I seem to recal it was late at night and IFR weather... They crashed and died.
I bet they wished they vetted a bit....
 
I still think it's a fine line to walk between a friendly offer to fly with someone and demanding to see credentials before getting into the plane.

I agree with everyone that says you should go with your gut and definitely get some input from others at the field before just going up. I fly with EAA and do Young Eagles pretty much every month since I bought my plane back in May. There's not a guy in my group I wouldn't fly with, they are all safe pilots.

There are definitely those odd balls on the field though. Usually they are the weekend warrior types with too much airplane for their skills. Like the guy who bought a brand new Cirrus SR22 GT BEFORE he got his PPL. Or the doctor who bought an G36 Bonanza, again, right out of PPL land.

I won't fly with those guys because I know exactly the type of pilot they are and exactly how many corners they cut.
 
If he has a tattoo which says "Death is the only Certainty" and looks like he is gearing up for the final act, then I would probably pass. But otherwise, I know what all those gadgets and doodads are in front of me including the yoke be it bowtie or rams horn and if the flight ever became in doubt I have no doubt there would be a change in PIC.
 
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