Do you think a bachelors degree will ever become necessary again to become a pilot at the airlines?

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Thunderforce90

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Thunderforce90
So for some context, I’m a 20yo aspiring pilot who is not currently in college, and I was thinking about if this dream of mine is even gonna be possible anymore without a college degree. I work full time right now, and based on my current income I project to be able to pay for flight school completely in cash by the summer of 2026(assuming I’m working while doing my flight training), but I’m worried that it will all be in vain, and my window of opportunity to become a pilot without needing to get a degree will be closed, as the hiring market is starting to slow down for FO’s, and I’ve heard of speculation that airlines may reinstate the degree requirement within the next few years to weed out their high number of applicants. There’s no way I’m gonna be able to go to college AND flight school without taking on sizeable loans. Also yes I know there are other avenues to go down other than airline, but ideally that would be my end goal, as I’ve heard other alternative pathways like cargo or corporate are hard to get into without either getting lucky or knowing a guy. So basically the TLDR is, will a degree ever become necessary again to get to the airlines, and if so, are there any ways to get in without a degree should that time come, or are there any good alternatives to the airlines?
 
You should get a degree regardless. Gives you a back-up option if the industry grinds to a halt again at any point in your career.
Start at a community college, keep the costs down. Your diploma will still have the name of the college you finished at.
 
I strongly believe it will come back, despite what some flight schools might feed you to get your business. Let me tell you one absolute - a degree will place you ahead of the folks who don’t. Anyone who says otherwise is deceiving you. Get the degree. You’ll be glad you did.
 
Thunderforce90 said:
So for some context, I’m a 20yo aspiring pilot who is not currently in college, and I was thinking about if this dream of mine is even gonna be possible anymore without a college degree. I work full time right now, and based on my current income I project to be able to pay for flight school completely in cash by the summer of 2026(assuming I’m working while doing my flight training), but I’m worried that it will all be in vain, and my window of opportunity to become a pilot without needing to get a degree will be closed, as the hiring market is starting to slow down for FO’s, and I’ve heard of speculation that airlines may reinstate the degree requirement within the next few years to weed out their high number of applicants. There’s no way I’m gonna be able to go to college AND flight school without taking on sizeable loans. Also yes I know there are other avenues to go down other than airline, but ideally that would be my end goal, as I’ve heard other alternative pathways like cargo or corporate are hard to get into without either getting lucky or knowing a guy. So basically the TLDR is, will a degree ever become necessary again to get to the airlines, and if so, are there any ways to get in without a degree should that time come, or are there any good alternatives to the airlines?
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Now that I’m at my desk, here’s some life advice.

You’re 20 years old. If you’re working full time right now and have no debt, save $10K, then start on your PPL while saving enough to finish it. Do this while you’re working.

Rinse, lather, repeat for your Instrument, then again for your commercial.

Then, if your current employer offers tuition assistance (usually it’s $5K/year) of any kind, start on degree program using that TA to pay for classes and do some part time commercial or CFI work to build up to 1500hrs, which you will need to get to the airlines anyways.

Or, once you get your CFI, see what schools will give you credit for your certificates towards any degree program. You might be surprised at what you find. While doing CFI work, knock out as much coursework as you can towards an Associates and then Bachelor’s getting paid to fly.
 
For the past few years, anyone with a comm, IR, and 1500 hours could find a seat up front somewhere. It's basic economics, there have been more seats than qualified candidates. But this is not the norm, it's part of a cycle and there are signs of the market returning to its traditional place. Nobody knows for sure when, but for reasons, it looks like the market is changing and supply might exceed demand soon and hiring managers will need to make a cut somewhere. A college degree is low hanging fruit, so yes, for sure it will help.

I like your plan though, if you can get all the ratings in 2 years debt free you will have opportunities to fly for free (CFI) or get right seat time somewhere. Then, or now, start working on a degree online. TCABM pretty much nailed it, IMHO.
 
Yes it will be required again and you need a degree as a backup plan anyway. Get a degree in something that will keep you fed. STEM and business degrees will pay. English lit, not so much.

TCABM pretty much nailed it.
 
Y'know, if it were only like ten bucks, I'd be tempted to order a PhD from Wassamatta U to hang on the wall. Maybe a degree in advanced internet search engine studies....
 
TCABM said:
Now that I’m at my desk, here’s some life advice.

You’re 20 years old. If you’re working full time right now and have no debt, save $10K, then start on your PPL while saving enough to finish it. Do this while you’re working.

Rinse, lather, repeat for your Instrument, then again for your commercial.

Then, if your current employer offers tuition assistance (usually it’s $5K/year) of any kind, start on degree program using that TA to pay for classes and do some part time commercial or CFI work to build up to 1500hrs, which you will need to get to the airlines anyways.

Or, once you get your CFI, see what schools will give you credit for your certificates towards any degree program. You might be surprised at what you find. While doing CFI work, knock out as much coursework as you can towards an Associates and then Bachelor’s getting paid to fly.
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Right now I actually have about 26k in the bank just from being a relatively aggressive saver for the last few years. My plan was to just save up until my target date, and do training all in one go without any big breaks due to financial constraints.

The whole “get a degree as a backup” doesn’t really apply to me in a way because by my target date of summer 2026, I’ll have built the certifications in my current career field (fire alarms) to a point where if I ever had to stop flying, I could just go back to what I was doing before for like 30-35 an hour minimum. So in my eyes, getting a degree would be for the SOLE purpose of looking good to a recruiter on a resume, although depending on what degree I did get, I might be able to get a pay bump in my current field based on that (I’m sure I’d probably have an argument for more than what I normally would make if I had like a bachelors in electrical engineering or something).

Idk I may be young and stupid thinking “nah I can still make it to the airlines without a degree” but I saw the window open post pandemic sparking a the strongest desire to enter a career I’d ever had in my entire life, and I’m just scared to death that that dream is gonna get crushed once again by being forced to throw away 4 years and tens of thousands of dollars for a degree I don’t even want, just to get into something I truly believe would be a career I’d wholeheartedly enjoy and wouldn’t give up on until I’m forced to by the FAA due to health or age.
 
If you spend two years at a community college before university, it’s a LOT cheaper than all 4 at a U. It’s definitely worth a look.

I always wanted to be a fighter pilot but when my eyes when bad I decided to be an engineer and design them. Worked out for me.

Good luck.
 
Thunderforce90 said:
… I may be young and stupid thinking “nah I can still make it to the airlines without a degree” …forced to throw away 4 years and tens of thousands of dollars for a degree… forced to by the FAA due to health or age.
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Couple of quick follow ups. If you haven’t reviewed the FAA medical requirements, go look at them. ADD/ADHD, drug/alcohol issues, or other stuff at any point in your life may be disqualifying. Get the medical before you spend money on ground school and flight training.

Young and stupid? No.

Forced to get a degree? No. Having a degree might make you more competitive though. Also, you won’t he starting at a major, so the regionals (which have a harder time retaining talent) may be less selective. Using your employer’s money to pay for that degree is a smart use of benefits though and it’s likely you can receive credit for various industry certs to considerably reduce the time to finish a degree.

If you’ve got $26K today, that’ll get you most of the way through a part 61 private and instrument ticket. Or about a quarter of the way towards one of the pilot mills.

Those pilot mills spit you out need another 1250hrs of flight experience before you’ll be eligible for any airline job. That’s the same spot you end up at doing it at a local flight school. It’s realistic you could get your medical and earn your private thru commercial before 2026 given your current state of funding.
 
Are you tied down with any commitments?

Start with a Community College that has aviation programs... A&I, Avionics, Airport Management, Piloting Skills etc. Make sure they have a pathway to where you can transfer to a four year school..

For instance, Glendale Community College offers a program that will allow a direct transfer to San Jose State...



Also, there is grant money out there and they are begging to give it away... My nephew got close to $40K in grants for his education, and as he put it, all he had to do was ask for it. He is now showing my son how to go about doing this.

Oh! There is also the military.. you could go for the Warrent Officer program, but again, this is going to require a commitment
 
Flight training can be a grind. My thought would be to get your PP as soon as possible (you have the cash) and fly for fun while you save up to finish the IR (you might need a bit more, depending on things), Then build the hours pay-as you-go for the Commercial. No need to quit your job until you get all the ratings and can teach (if you like to teach) for a living. Note well, CFI is not a high paying job. Even then, You can build hours other ways.

Lots of reasons to get the degree as discussed. Easiest, cheapest, and slowest, is a class at a time at a community college.

On both matters, don't overthink it. Just go....
 
economics aside- “properly done”- a bachelor’s degree is empowering.
Pick something you enjoy studying. Learn it. It’s a bonus if it’s in demand for by employers, but IMO, interest is paramount.

I’ll echo the community college route can be an incredible bargain. If you transfer to a good state university at the end of 2 years, that will be respected by others, in settings where your cv or resume are reviewed.
 
TCABM said:
Couple of quick follow ups. If you haven’t reviewed the FAA medical requirements, go look at them. ADD/ADHD, drug/alcohol issues, or other stuff at any point in your life may be disqualifying. Get the medical before you spend money on ground school and flight training.

Young and stupid? No.

Forced to get a degree? No. Having a degree might make you more competitive though. Also, you won’t he starting at a major, so the regionals (which have a harder time retaining talent) may be less selective. Using your employer’s money to pay for that degree is a smart use of benefits though and it’s likely you can receive credit for various industry certs to considerably reduce the time to finish a degree.

If you’ve got $26K today, that’ll get you most of the way through a part 61 private and instrument ticket. Or about a quarter of the way towards one of the pilot mills.

Those pilot mills spit you out need another 1250hrs of flight experience before you’ll be eligible for any airline job. That’s the same spot you end up at doing it at a local flight school. It’s realistic you could get your medical and earn your private thru commercial before 2026 given your current state of funding.
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So regarding medical stuff, the only question is my eyesight. I have amblyopia in my right eye which actually disqualifies me from flying for the military specifically, which was gonna be my original plan. it does not however disqualify me from getting a 1st class medical allegedly, I just need to get a SODA and take it to an AME and i should have one issued to me.

In regards to college, my employer unfortunately doesnt offer college tuition assistance to employees (But hey they grant a chunk of cash for one lucky employees kid once a year for their college so theres that!). So id basically be on my own to pay for it unless i got super lucky with grants and tuition assistance. But even still theres no way id be able to graduate college in 4 years even if it is fully online, while working full time, while also attending flight school, I feel like im limitied to doing 2 out of those 3, and depending on which one i choose not to do im basically delaying advancement in it by like 3-4 years or just abandoning it entirely. So i feel kind of at a crossroads, in the sense that I feel like if i dont get into it NOW, my window to get in while theres still not a college degree requirement is gonna close, but at the same time, the only way id be able to afford flight training up to CFI starting now, without saving up cash for a few more years is loans, and even still thats an absolute last resort given how little CFIs make, since theres no guarantee im gonna be able to start making enough money to pay it back for a long time. So I basically have to decide whether or not to take on large debt to start now while i might still catch the no degree train (which if im being perfectly realistic will probably pass by the time i would eventually be at ATP minimums), or save up and go through flight school debt free, but potentially get hit with the, "Sorry, we're only accepting applicants with 4 year degrees or better at this time", and miss the golden opportunity the pandemic provided to many low time pilots, and be forced to take on even MORE debt and spend ANOTHER 4 years for a degree I don't even necessarily want, just for my application to even get through the filter.

I'm trying not to be a doomer about this whole situation but I feel completely stuck and that i decided to try and go through with this at one of the worst possible times.
 
Thunderforce90 said:
…

In regards to college, …i choose not to do im basically delaying advancement in it by like 3-4 years or just abandoning it entirely. ….
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Life lesson #2. Don’t turn something into a binary choice when it’s not. As a newly-eligible ATP candidate, you’re not going to be anywhere near competitive for a major airline, who are the ones that will most likely bring back the degree cut line first. Your first airline will not be your last and that first airline may be where you take the time to get the degree, if it’s needed then.

The only thing that’s certain is you can’t get to any airline without

Being at least 23 years of age and holding either:
A commercial pilot certificate with an instrument rating
Or, meet the military experience requirements to qualify for a commercial pilot certificate, and an instrument rating,
Or, a foreign airline transport pilot license with instrument privileges
Holding a 1st class medical certificate
1,500 hours of Total Flight Time
500 hours of Cross-Country Flight Time
250 hours as Pilot-In-Command (PIC)
100 hours of Night Flight Time
75 hours of Instrument Training
50 hours of In Class of Rating Sought
Passing an ATP knowledge test
Completing and passing an ATP-CTP training program

The sooner you start down that path, the sooner you can finish that path. But nobody has a crystal ball and only you can decide for yourself that not trying now because of some potential future roadblock is worth it to you or not.
 
I don’t believe degree requirements will come back. Obviously in certain situations a degree holder may beat you out of a job but as each day passes, it’s proven that just having a degree isn't worth too much. What is more important, is subject area knowledge, and how you present yourself.
 
A degree is not required at major airlines currently but the percentage of pilots hired off the street is extremely low. The major airlines all track the performance of applicants and new hires without degrees have struggled. As the applicant pool gets deeper it will get harder to get hired. Get the degree if you have any option to make it work.
 
Skymac said:
Obviously in certain situations a degree holder may beat you out of a job but as each day passes, it’s proven that just having a degree isn't worth too much.
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Source? I disagree. Was a degree 30 years ago more valuable than it is now? Maybe, but only because fewer people attended college back then and more went into trade fields. Nowadays, society has pushed young people into going to college and portrayed it as being the way to have a lucrative career. The majority follow that notion, and so more and more have four year degrees. This shift has made post graduate education more valuable, but I’d assert that your statement about a degree not being worth much is entirely false.
 
RyanB said:
Source?
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Value of a degree is being debated by society now. In some fields (medical, legal, etc.,) it’s de riguer. Others, not so much.

It’s not really even about degrees in general, even. It’s about relevance of the degree to the work being performed. We have an internal preference for a bachelor’s for any manager position. Outside of our technical IT areas, it’s any major. A candidate with a Bachelor’s in Pottery is more competitive than a candidate with no degree and ten years’ experience in banking with progressive responsibility. My employer is an F100 financial services provider with P&C and life insurance and a retail bank offering deposit, credit, and consumer lending accounts.

Since the talent market is getting tighter, we accept X years industry experience, where X>4 as a sub for a degree. When the talent market loosens, we’ll likely swing back the other way, maybe as far as industry experience plus BBA as a minimum, not preferred requirement.
 
Jeff767 said:
A degree is not required at major airlines currently but the percentage of pilots hired off the street is extremely low. The major airlines all track the performance of applicants and new hires without degrees have struggled. As the applicant pool gets deeper it will get harder to get hired. Get the degree if you have any option to make it work.
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What would be some good things to do to make yourself stand out in the application process if I were to not pursue a 4 year degree. more hours greater than atp minimums? more type ratings? things of that nature? would even an associates degree be of any notable help? since its technically better than nothing.
 
We have been fed a lot of BS about the value of a BA. What everyone needs is a marketable skill. Sometimes that involves a degree. Sometimes the degree offers nothing in the way of a marketable skill. Don't overlook other opportunities to gain skills and certifications which can be a back up or an opportunity. These days, for instance, an A&P is a guarantee never to miss a meal if one has any work ethic at all.
 
Kristin said:
We have been fed a lot of BS about the value of a BA. What everyone needs is a marketable skill. Sometimes that involves a degree. Sometimes the degree offers nothing in the way of a marketable skill. Don't overlook other opportunities to gain skills and certifications which can be a back up or an opportunity. These days, for instance, an A&P is a guarantee never to miss a meal if one has any work ethic at all.
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yeah me personally I'm on team anti degree, in the sense that degree requirements for a field that shouldn't in theory require one are dumb, especially for aviation. To me it just seems like an unnecessary obstacle that causes people like me who may not have any desire at all to pursue a degree they don't even want, to start second guessing their decision to get into aviation due to needing to spend 40k-50k and 4 extra years getting a BA on top of the 60-90k and multiple years for flight school. Just my personal opinion but I also feel like in aviation a degree requirement may cause recruiters to look over candidates who may be a better fit for them or are maybe more qualified than someone who may have a degree, but are skipped over due to them not checking a box on a filter. but hey what do I know I'm just a guy who hasn't even enrolled in flight school yet who tests fire alarms for a living.
 
Jeff767 said:
A degree is not required at major airlines currently but the percentage of pilots hired off the street is extremely low. The major airlines all track the performance of applicants and new hires without degrees have struggled. As the applicant pool gets deeper it will get harder to get hired. Get the degree if you have any option to make it work.
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Where are you getting that data?
 
SFDukie said:
economics aside- “properly done”- a bachelor’s degree is empowering.
Pick something you enjoy studying. Learn it. It’s a bonus if it’s in demand for by employers, but IMO, interest is paramount.

I’ll echo the community college route can be an incredible bargain. If you transfer to a good state university at the end of 2 years, that will be respected by others, in settings where your cv or resume are reviewed.
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Not to put too fine a point on it, but that sounds like a quick ticket to $100K in debt and living with your parents because you can't afford to pay rent.
 
Also consider on-line programs. There are a number of universities that offer aviation degrees and on-line courses. An aviation degree is not a requirement, but once you have your certificates they will count towards a lot of an aviation degree requirements. After I had my certificates, I signed up with Utah Valley University. When I was in their aviation program, it did not matter where you lived, they charged resident tuition to everyone. I only had to take a handful of general courses to meet the degree requirements. Some of these I did at the local community college and transferred (much less $$). I received a BS degree in about a year, never set foot on campus and never went into debt. Now I have a piece of paper just like everyone else.
 
Historically at the airlines, having a four year degree has shown initiative to go above and beyond the minimums. In the last few years with the applicant pools drying up, the degree requirement has started to disappear. They may not make a degree required in the near future, but I would venture to guess those who are hired will have one.

I would guess the above would apply to the top tier carriers- United, American, Southwest, Delta, FedEx and UPS.

The LCCs are losing pilots by the dozens to the top tier carriers, so they’re more likely to hire without the degree- Frontier, JetBlue, Spirit, etc. You can still make a great living working for these carriers as well, and any one of them could be candidates to be bought out by any of the majors in the future.

The regionals won’t require a degree in the future because they’re also losing pilots to all of the above mentioned airlines. Regionals are also paying way more money these days and depending on your lifestyle, you could live comfortably off their pay scales as well without the expense of the four year degree.

If you want to stand out to the top tier carriers, you’ll want the degree. Other ways to stand out? Become a Part 135 Chief Pilot/Director of Operations, company check airman, standards captain, simulator instructor, find a job where you can fly internationally (like Asia and Europe internationally, not Nassau). It may be harder to get that top tier job in the future, but depending on your desired paycheck and lifestyle, there will definitely be options out there for you without the degree.
 
A good college education will teach a student how to teach themselves. How to use *primary* sources. How to evaluate information sources critically.

In terms of educational experience, there’s no comparison between in person and online.

That’s empowering, beyond economic considerations
 
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