do you pray before you fly?

Henning said:
Religion has been nothing but a tool of greed and governance for thousands of years now.
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For many people, religion is something that makes them feel good. Especially people who attend any one of the thousands of seeker sensitive churches that have been started over the past twenty five years.
 
RalphInCA said:
For many people, religion is something that makes them feel good. Especially people who attend any one of the thousands of seeker sensitive churches that have been started over the past twenty five years.
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HAHAH!!!!

Made me think of this
 
So now does this debate a outs the merits of religion relate to flying???
 
RJM62 said:
There also are those who like to run the "religion has led to more wars than anything else" line in defense of Atheism; but in most cases (including the myriad Roman Catholic inquisitions and military campaigns), religion was more of a convenient justification for waging wars for the purposes of property, power, control, and wealth.



Rich
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Interesting perspective given we've been at war for almost a decade and a half and its a religious war. There are crazy people in the world who would absolutely love to kill themselves flying a jet into buildings...but it takes religion to organize and bring them together and provide the resources necessary to pull it off.

In a non-theist world I don't think 9/11 is possible.
 
RalphInCA said:
For many people, religion is something that makes them feel good. Especially people who attend any one of the thousands of seeker sensitive churches that have been started over the past twenty five years.
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That's why it works so well, people want to believe. Biggest business in the world.
 
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Henning said:
That's why it works so well, people want to believe. Biggest business in the world.
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That's true, but in addition to that, millions of people simply want something in their lives that makes them feel good about themselves.

Most churches are just social clubs.
 
RalphInCA said:
That's true, but in addition to that, millions of people simply want something in their lives that makes them feel good about themselves.

Most churches are just social clubs.
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Right, but the problem is when it is used to destructive ends.
 
Captain said:
Interesting perspective given we've been at war for almost a decade and a half and its a religious war. There are crazy people in the world who would absolutely love to kill themselves flying a jet into buildings...but it takes religion to organize and bring them together and provide the resources necessary to pull it off.

In a non-theist world I don't think 9/11 is possible.
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Of course it's possible. Mohammed was a politician before he was a preacher, and whether or not one believes that he was a prophet, it's historical fact that he used religion to help bring about the same strikingly progressive and worthy reforms that he advocated before he started preaching.

Unfortunately, the mock prayer that goes "Jesus, save us from your followers" could equally be applied to extremist factions of Islam whose interpretation of the Koran would be quite unrecognizable to its author. Mohammed preached submission to Allah over loyalty to tribes or nations, but extremist Muslims are overwhelmingly united around hatred of Israel and anyone they perceive to be supporting her. Mohammed was all about fairness, justice, generosity, and reconciliation; but present-day extremist factions of Islam are all about hatred -- and little else.

So again, it's really not about religion. It's still about politics. Drop the facade of religiosity and the fighting would still go on. The notion that Atheism would bring about peace is as laughable as the most bizarre of religions. The hunger for power, control, domination, and wealth that drive wars are not products of religion. They are products of human nature.

Rich
 
RalphInCA said:
That's true, but in addition to that, millions of people simply want something in their lives that makes them feel good about themselves.

Most churches are just social clubs.
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It's billions of people, billions.
 
RJM62 said:
Of course it's possible. Mohammed was a politician before he was a preacher, and whether or not one believes that he was a prophet, it's historical fact that he used religion to help bring about the same strikingly progressive and worthy reforms that he advocated before he started preaching.

Unfortunately, the mock prayer that goes "Jesus, save us from your followers" could equally be applied to extremist factions of Islam whose interpretation of the Koran would be quite unrecognizable to its author. Mohammed preached submission to Allah over loyalty to tribes or nations, but extremist Muslims are overwhelmingly united around hatred of Israel and anyone they perceive to be supporting her. Mohammed was all about fairness, justice, generosity, and reconciliation; but present-day extremist factions of Islam are all about hatred -- and little else.

So again, it's really not about religion. It's still about politics. Drop the facade of religiosity and the fighting would still go on. The notion that Atheism would bring about peace is as laughable as the most bizarre of religions. The hunger for power, control, domination, and wealth that drive wars are not products of religion. They are products of human nature.

Rich
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Why? There is never anything in the media as to why, there is never any discussion on any social media, including here, as to why. For what reason does Islam detest Israel so? What is it they did that makes them infidels? What is it we have in association that makes us infidels? Answer that question.
 
If there is an explicit biblical explanation for this animosity, it goes all the way back to Abraham. The Jews are descendants of Abraham’s son Isaac. The Arabs are descendants of Abraham’s son Ishmael. With Ishmael being the son of a slave woman (Genesis 16:1–16) and Isaac being the promised son who would inherit the blessings of Abraham (Genesis 21:1–3), obviously there would be some animosity between the two sons. As a result of Ishmael’s mocking Isaac (Genesis 21:9), Sarah talked Abraham into sending Hagar and Ishmael away (Genesis 21:11–21). Likely, this caused even more contempt in Ishmael’s heart toward Isaac. An angel told Hagar that Ishmael would be the father of a great nation (Genesis 21:18) and, interestingly, that Ishmael would be “a wild donkey of a man; his hand will be against everyone and everyone’s hand against him, and he will live in hostility toward all his brothers” (Genesis 16:12).
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Source
 
Nothing to do with it. What did Jewish law and Christian law at one time forbid, that Shariah law still forbids?
 
I am buddhist and meditate daily. Hopefully that continues to keep me safe while flying in the blue skies.
 
Blueangel said:
I am buddhist and meditate daily. Hopefully that continues to keep me safe while flying in the blue skies.
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Safety is an illusion, you may die of nothing at any moment, there is no escape, nor should you want to.
 
One thing is for sure.....ain't one got outta this life alive yet.

We all will surly die one day...then we shall see if our faith was in vain. :D
 
We only have two requirements as humans: take up space and die. Everything else is optional.
 
Henning said:
Nothing to do with it. What did Jewish law and Christian law at one time forbid, that Shariah law still forbids?
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The ten commandments are in the Quran ( http://quran.com/6/151-153 ), although they phrase them differently than we read them in English. As previously mentioned, usury was forbidden by all three.

Henning said:
Actually, the Quoran only addresses "no anal" after you marry your wife; as in, "Once you marry her, no more anal." That was pretty much all I noticed on the subject.
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Cite a reference or it's more of your BS and making stuff up again. If you truly read the bible or the Quran, you wouldn't have asked the question above.

That's right...you didn't know that adultery was mentioned in the 10 commandments either (http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1842276).
 
Henning said:
Regardless how mankind began, incest was part of the picture. Some states it's still part of the picture.:lol:
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True, but the issue is to what degree. Humans are among the most inbred of the species and there is some evidence that a population bottleneck occurred in modern humans approximately 70,000 years ago. I've seen estimates ranging from the total human population at that time ranging from 2,000 to 10,000 individuals. So yes a considerable amount of inbreeding has taken place to get us to our current 7 billion. There is a BIG difference though between a population size of that had dwindled down to 2000 individuals, and an initial population size of TWO (the biblical number talking about just Adam and Eve). In fact, if you study human genetics there is no possible way we are all descended from only two individuals who copulated 4000 years ago or so.

But why do I even bother referring to science in a religious thread? Religious people are notorious for picking and choosing which science they want to accept. :rolleyes:

Carry on praying if it makes you feel better. I really don't mind. :lol:
 
narchee said:
True, but the issue is to what degree. Humans are among the most inbred of the species and there is some evidence that a population bottleneck occurred in modern humans approximately 70,000 years ago. I've seen estimates ranging from the total human population at that time ranging from 2,000 to 10,000 individuals. So yes a considerable amount of inbreeding has taken place to get us to our current 7 billion. There is a BIG difference though between a population size of that had dwindled down to 2000 individuals, and an initial population size of TWO (the biblical number talking about just Adam and Eve). In fact, if you study human genetics there is no possible way we are all descended from only two individuals who copulated 4000 years ago or so.

But why do I even bother referring to science in a religious thread? Religious people are notorious for picking and choosing which science they want to accept. :rolleyes:

Carry on praying if it makes you feel better. I really don't mind. :lol:
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Science and religion don't actually clash. Man was inspired to science to understand God, so we can evolve into the species we're meant to be and fulfill our roll, not just "take up space"; we produce information and energy. We are tools of creation. Prayer is nothing but directed thought, and everything in creation began with a thought, a thought we are all born into and help direct the future creation of.

Just because religions have all been pretty much corrupted and are incorrect in their daily dogmas and rituals, that does not mean there's not some element of truth to their basis. One needs to read all the religious tomes with a literary bias. They all have fantastic stories, but they all also have some historical truths. The one thing they all have in common is that you should dedicate some time to thought, because that's what we produce, and that we should treat each other kindly, even strangers, because we are all interconnected. Also that causes our quality of thought to be useful.

The interesting thing on the part of the scientific community is they accept Dark Energy to exist because for their equations to work against observation, it has to. I find it funny that these same people can look upon creation and not accept that there is a preeminent intelligence to the design. The difference between evolution and entropy is intelligence.
 
Henning said:
Science and religion don't actually clash. Man was inspired to science to understand God, so we can evolve into the species we're meant to be and fulfill our roll, not just "take up space"; we produce information and energy. We are tools of creation. Prayer is nothing but directed thought, and everything in creation began with a thought, a thought we are all born into and help direct the future creation of.

Just because religions have all been pretty much corrupted and are incorrect in their daily dogmas and rituals, that does not mean there's not some element of truth to their basis. One needs to read all the religious tomes with a literary bias. They all have fantastic stories, but they all also have some historical truths. The one thing they all have in common is that you should dedicate some time to thought, because that's what we produce, and that we should treat each other kindly, even strangers, because we are all interconnected. Also that causes our quality of thought to be useful.

The interesting thing on the part of the scientific community is they accept Dark Energy to exist because for their equations to work against observation, it has to. I find it funny that these same people can look upon creation and not accept that there is a preeminent intelligence to the design. The difference between evolution and entropy is intelligence.
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Given how you made up stuff and said incorrect stuff about both science and religion in this thread, I find it amusing that you still carry on.

People like you are the reason religion has been currupted. Same with any political system. Most people here don't question your BS. Like any currupted religious leader or politician, you tend to move the goal posts, deflect the question, or even resort to name calling when challenged.
 
Cap'n Jack said:
Given how you made up stuff and said incorrect stuff about both science and religion in this thread, I find it amusing that you still carry on.

People like you are the reason religion has been currupted. Same with any political system. Most people here don't question your BS. Like any currupted religious leader or politician, you tend to move the goal posts, deflect the question, or even resort to name calling when challenged.
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Well, you know.....He's also an ordained minister. :rofl:
 
narchee said:
There is a BIG difference though between a population size of that had dwindled down to 2000 individuals, and an initial population size of TWO (the biblical number talking about just Adam and Eve). In fact, if you study human genetics there is no possible way we are all descended from only two individuals who copulated 4000 years ago or so.
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Actually, all humans are thought to have originated from one woman, the so-called mitochondrial Eve, who lived in Africa, though the timeline is more like 200,000 years than 4,000.
 
Henning said:
Actually, the Quoran only addresses "no anal" after you marry your wife; as in, "Once you marry her, no more anal." That was pretty much all I noticed on the subject.
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I thought that was all marriages?? :dunno::dunno:
Except of course, gay marriage, not that there is anything wrong with that. :eek:
 
steingar said:
Actually, all humans are thought to have originated from one woman, the so-called mitochondrial Eve, who lived in Africa, though the timeline is more like 200,000 years than 4,000.
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And another difference between the two Eves: mitochondrial Eve was born from a mother of the same species.
 
narchee said:
True, but the issue is to what degree. Humans are among the most inbred of the species and there is some evidence that a population bottleneck occurred in modern humans approximately 70,000 years ago. I've seen estimates ranging from the total human population at that time ranging from 2,000 to 10,000 individuals. So yes a considerable amount of inbreeding has taken place to get us to our current 7 billion. There is a BIG difference though between a population size of that had dwindled down to 2000 individuals, and an initial population size of TWO (the biblical number talking about just Adam and Eve). In fact, if you study human genetics there is no possible way we are all descended from only two individuals who copulated 4000 years ago or so.

But why do I even bother referring to science in a religious thread? Religious people are notorious for picking and choosing which science they want to accept. :rolleyes:

Carry on praying if it makes you feel better. I really don't mind. :lol:
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Ok....so where did all the parents come from? .....and did you take into account all the natural disasters that wiped away much of the population a half dozen times?
 
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