Diesels

Tom-D said:
I think you are picking a nit.

they are not carrying a bunch of radiators, hoses, fans and all that stuff.

as we commonly know as a cooling system.
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Dealing with baffling and oil cooler location, or if liquid cooled with a radiator, tstat, hoses seems more complex than what happens with turbines.
 
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They need to open a retrofit shop putting these in run out Malibus and C210s.
 
dell30rb said:
Dealing with baffling and oil cooler location, or if liquid cooled with a radiator, tstat, hoses seems more complex than what happens with turbines.
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like I said, too bad they don't get good gas mileage.

Retro fit a Alison C-20 to the Piper Arrow 3 should be a mover. but it will really have short legs.
 
GlennAB1 said:
So, when a Roll Royce Dart gets over torqued (yes, the engine has a torque meter), or a CF6 has an overspeed, or an RB211 has an EPR exceedance, the required checks are not warranted? Oh wait, you jumped back to piston engines...
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It's nice you joined this general aviation forum so the members flying Darts, CF6s, and RB211s get the advantage of your vast knowledge.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted DuPuis
Correction: turbines do typically have cooling systems. The cooling system is internal bleed air used to cool the hot section and other parts.

So it does exist, you just don't see it. And if it fails (gets clogged) it gets really expensive.

Carry on.




Tom-D said:
I think you are picking a nit.

they are not carrying a bunch of radiators, hoses, fans and all that stuff.

as we commonly know as a cooling system.
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Truth is.... The cooling system on my plane is my least worry of failure,, and the motor delivers vast amounts of hot water /coolant to my liquid to air heat exchanger to keep the cabin nice and toasty when it is -30f outside..

Case in point... When was the last time anyone here had a cooling system failure in their vehicles??:dunno:......:rolleyes:
 
Art VanDelay said:
Yeah, they'll never make a car that can go up hill or out pull a horse either......:rolleyes:
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I'm not worried about the tech, I'm more worried about support.

Sure a diesel could work in a plane, in many ways it makes perfect sense, I'll stick with my IO520 till the diesel market gets settled and established.
 
Katamarino said:
Diesel is definitely the future for GA. TBOs of even the early generation engines are at 2,000 hours, approved by EASA and the FAA. The fuel burn improvement is accurate (having a couple of hundred hours in Diesel 182s and DA40s I know this first hand).
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I guess I need to find a diesel to replace my Rotax - get me down to 2 gallons an hour!
 
Dr. O said:
Another effort at making a small fortune in the airplane business.
The water cooling is a non starter, especially in high power, high flying turbocharged aircraft.
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Like the P51? and the P47? Once upon a time, water cooled was king for high power engines.
 
Doggtyred said:
Like the P51? and the P47? Once upon a time, water cooled was king for high power engines.
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And people were shooting at those, making the chances of leaks that much higher! ;)
 
3393RP said:
It's nice you joined this general aviation forum so the members flying Darts, CF6s, and RB211s get the advantage of your vast knowledge.
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Oh come on! There are plenty of airline and military threads on POA including ones about their equipment and technology. Who ever said this was a GA only forum?
 
N801BH said:
Truth is.... The cooling system on my plane is my least worry of failure,, and the motor delivers vast amounts of hot water /coolant to my liquid to air heat exchanger to keep the cabin nice and toasty when it is -30f outside..

Case in point... When was the last time anyone here had a cooling system failure in their vehicles??:dunno:......:rolleyes:
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You've never changed heater hoses? WoW. Must be nice to drive new cars.

And what does all that weigh? Alison C-20 weighs 136 pounds, and makes plenty of hot air for your cabin. with out a bunch hoses and heat exchangers.

And the plus is, the theory of operation is simply better.
 
Tom-D said:
Why 75%??? many diesel generators run 100% for days with no problems.

Fly by wire controls have been around a long time in diesels, my coach is a computer controlled ECU by Cummins, but common rail is much better than my CAPS system.

Diesel is better in many ways, for starters, it is not as volatile, has more BTUs per pound than gas, and it can be found almost any gas station.

Just my thoughts.
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No, they really don't. I'm in the film industry and have a lot of experience with diesel generators. First, engines are sized to alternators specifically so that they never have to run at 100% to max out the alternator. Second, they have to run at a constant 1800 rpm (or 3600 rpm in the case of gas portables) so they never do reach the engines true maximum HP. Third nobody I know purposely runs a generator continuously at the max rated load for very long. The results are as you might imagine. Lots of over heating and shut downs.

The smart electrician plans his loads to be about, you guessed it, 75% of max rated. The engines in generator sets generally are pretty lightly loaded and as a result, they last a long, long time with proper oil changes intervals. Generator sets aren't concerned with weight one iota, so they pair big engine with small alternator for long life.
 
Tom-D said:
You've never changed heater hoses? WoW. Must be nice to drive new cars.

And what does all that weigh? Alison C-20 weighs 136 pounds, and makes plenty of hot air for your cabin. with out a bunch hoses and heat exchangers.

And the plus is, the theory of operation is simply better.
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I find it hard to believe that an aircraft equipped with an Allison C-20 just pumps hot air into the cabin with no components for temperature regulation.
 
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Diamond has diesel engines that are water cooled (and geared) in some of it's airplanes. AE300 series.
 
Dav8or said:
No, they really don't. I'm in the film industry and have a lot of experience with diesel generators. First, engines are sized to alternators specifically so that they never have to run at 100% to max out the alternator. Second, they have to run at a constant 1800 rpm (or 3600 rpm in the case of gas portables) so they never do reach the engines true maximum HP. Third nobody I know purposely runs a generator continuously at the max rated load for very long. The results are as you might imagine. Lots of over heating and shut downs.

The smart electrician plans his loads to be about, you guessed it, 75% of max rated. The engines in generator sets generally are pretty lightly loaded and as a result, they last a long, long time with proper oil changes intervals. Generator sets aren't concerned with weight one iota, so they pair big engine with small alternator for long life.
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I've run diesel APUs most of my life, most all support equipment in the military is diesel. Our NR-10 air conditioner unit ran at max RPM all day long day after day.

Point is, they will run wide open for a very long time.
The load is directly connected with fuel flow in a governed diesel same as a turbine.
 
GlennAB1 said:
Governed, being key, they may be at 100% on their gauges, but that's obviously derated from what they can actually run at.
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Moot point. they all are, even turbines.
 
GlennAB1 said:
Governed, being key, they may be at 100% on their gauges, but that's obviously derated from what they can actually run at.
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Explain the difference between Max horse power, and max rated horse power.
 
N801BH said:
<snip>

Case in point... When was the last time anyone here had a cooling system failure in their vehicles??:dunno:......:rolleyes:
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Well last year I replaced two water pumps and a radiator. Both of my pickup water pumps started leaking and the radiator in one developed a crack.

Might be telling that both water pumps were covered by the lifetime warranty I had on them....:)

Brian
 
Dav8or said:
No, they really don't. I'm in the film industry and have a lot of experience with diesel generators. First, engines are sized to alternators specifically so that they never have to run at 100% to max out the alternator. Second, they have to run at a constant 1800 rpm (or 3600 rpm in the case of gas portables) so they never do reach the engines true maximum HP. Third nobody I know purposely runs a generator continuously at the max rated load for very long. The results are as you might imagine. Lots of over heating and shut downs.

The smart electrician plans his loads to be about, you guessed it, 75% of max rated. The engines in generator sets generally are pretty lightly loaded and as a result, they last a long, long time with proper oil changes intervals. Generator sets aren't concerned with weight one iota, so they pair big engine with small alternator for long life.
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I engineered and built large data centers for 20 years. Some of them had six to ten 2 mW gensets. It's common to run generators at >90% of their rated capacity. Generator manufacturers have no issue with running them at 100% of rated load, that's what they're designed for. They are also designed to take a 100% step load, with minimal voltage and frequency deviation.

Commissioning and annual load tests at 100% are an industry standard. Same for health care facilities operating gensets under NFPA 110 regulations.

If a generator overheats or fails while running at 100% load there's something wrong with it.
 
GlennAB1 said:
Actually, if you knew what you were talking about, you'd know the term is "rated horse power".
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are you trying to say you don't know what it means?
 
3393RP said:
I engineered and built large data centers for 20 years. Some of them had six to ten 2 mW gensets. It's common to run generators at >90% of their rated capacity. Generator manufacturers have no issue with running them at 100% of rated load, that's what they're designed for. They are also designed to take a 100% step load, with minimal voltage and frequency deviation.

Commissioning and annual load tests at 100% are an industry standard. Same for health care facilities operating gensets under NFPA 110 regulations.

If a generator overheats or fails while running at 100% load there's something wrong with it.
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Data center gensets are fun.

Even more fun when a company does a natural gas conversion kit on a diesel and blows the thing sky high because instead of feeding it diesel for start up and the natural gas for run, some doofus reversed the valves.

Boom. Well there went a quarter of a million bucks...

Strangely the natural gas dual fuel project was shelved a week later. :)
 
Tom-D said:
are you trying to say you don't know what it means?
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No i think he was saying you don't. And perhaps was pointing out that you are playing a game of smart ass semantics that is unnecessary and insulting.....again.

If you have something to add to the conversation then add away. Leave the smart ass leading questions out.

It is actually frustrating how snarky you are tom. You often have good info to share but god you are so annoying in your smugness and self righteousness.
 
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