Degree?

Flyman2297

Flyman2297

Filing Flight Plan
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Flyman2297
Hey was just wondering how many pilots out there have a degree. And or if a degree like a associates or bachelors is required to be ATP or any commercial job
 
Bachelors in Industrial Engineering. Obtained well before I became serious about flying.
 
I don’t. Got about 77 credits before I dropped out. Actually I don’t think any of the other 3 guys at my base have either. I’ll never get to go into management but that’s never been a goal of mine anyway.
 
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I have a Bachelors in Economics. If you want to work for a major airline, get a bachelors. I can’t comment on the corporate side but I’m sure having a degree helps.
 
The major airlines have historically required a degree just as a method of thinning out the applications. My current job requires an associates or the equivalent...I have “the equivalent”. A friend of mine has a waiver. ;)
 
I have one, though it's not required like it used to be, lots of companies list it as a preferred qualification.
 
I have a degree. It has nothing to do with my flying or my mechanicing.
 
Its about the same with aviation as it is with just working in general. You will definitely be able to find jobs and make a living without a degree. But you will definitely also find there are jobs in your chosen field that will not be open to you, regardless of work experience, if you lack a degree. So its good to have, but not necessarily required.

If you're considering getting a degree, something else to consider is that professional aviation is one of those career fields where you should definitely go into it with a solid plan B because you just never know when you could be grounded. Having a degree opens up plan B options that wouldn't otherwise be there.
 
I have degrees that educated me for my profession, which allows me to own a plane and fly. Earn a degree if you want an education, or need professional skills for a particular career path. Education opens additional doors, and many of the skills are transferable to other pursuits.
 
2 year before I got into aviation, couple trade licenses too, haven’t bothered with a BS in BS as I didn’t see the need/ROI
 
I think the inner geek Aggie is showing his head.... does the OP want to know about Fahrenheit, Celsius, or Kelvin?
 
I have a bachelor's in math / comp sci, a second bachelor's in electrical engineering, and a master's in electro-optics.

You can find a job without a degree. You can find more and better jobs with the right degree.

My advice is to get a degree in something that will earn a living for you if your aviation career goes south. STEM and business degrees will pay off. Get a degree in Mayan art and you may starve.
 
I earned my PhD early in life, growing up on a farm...

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Farm life PhD ... Posthole Diggers
 
Have a bachelors in science,and an ATP rating, happily retired.
 
chemgeek said:
I have degrees that educated me for my profession, which allows me to own a plane and fly.
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Same here. In my case, a Ph.D.
Flying came later, and is not my occupation.
 
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I have a degree in squat.

Never have been asked what my grade point average was or even if I ever darkened a classroom door.

Some companies require a degree as a prerequisite, but then it won't matter what the degree is. And a degree doesn't guarantee intelligence, it just shows a person stuck with something and finished it. It took 12 years for me, but no one has ever asked me how long it took.

But yes, degrees open doors.
 
James331 said:
2 year before I got into aviation, couple trade licenses too, haven’t bothered with a BS in BS as I didn’t see the need/ROI
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Not that I believe that everyone needs a degree, but the statistics disagree with you. And I have found that having a degree makes interviews much easier, less stressful and more effective.

When I used to hire people and I interviewed several people for the same position, I would naturally lean towards the one with the degree, and make them better offers. Of course there were times when the person withOUT the degree seemed better suited for the job, and thus got the offer, but the offer would have almost always been higher if that person had a degree of some sort, and especially so if the degree was related to the job.

A degree often isn't required. But in most cases, it give you an advantage. I'm glad I suffered through college to get mine. It was well worth it.
 
JOhnH said:
Not that I believe that everyone needs a degree, but the statistics disagree with you. And I have found that having a degree makes interviews much easier, less stressful and more effective.

When I used to hire people and I interviewed several people for the same position, I would naturally lean towards the one with the degree, and make them better offers. Of course there were times when the person withOUT the degree seemed better suited for the job, and thus got the offer, but the offer would have almost always been higher if that person had a degree of some sort, and especially so if the degree was related to the job.

A degree often isn't required. But in most cases, it give you an advantage. I'm glad I suffered through college to get mine. It was well worth it.
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This is the problem with inexperienced non aviation folks making hiring decisions.
 
James331 said:
This is the problem with inexperienced non aviation folks making hiring decisions.
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HR and line pilots make the decisions on who to hire. If XYZ company wants you to have a degree, then you have to have a degree. It doesn’t make you any better or worse than another person with a degree. It’s just what XYZ company wants. They’re entitled to set the hiring standards.
 
jordane93 said:
HR and line pilots make the decisions on who to hire. If XYZ company wants you to have a degree, then you have to have a degree. It doesn’t make you any better or worse than another person with a degree. It’s just what XYZ company wants. They’re entitled to set the hiring standards.
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For sure, it is what it is, however it’s still small brain, kinda like how in some third world places you get more respect and service if you’re wearing more silly gold bars or other “flair”

If you look at the better companies, it’s more about your experience and what you bring to the table vs silly little pieces of meaningless paper, giving a leg up to a person a degree is lesbian dance theory just because is really low brow.

But to each their own, I’ll still have lunch the next day just the same.
 
A degree, especially but not limited to STEM, indicates a level of educational attainment, with many transferable skills such as writing, speaking, and quantitative analysis. Communication and analytical skills are large factors in career advancement in many arenas, including, I suspect, flying.
 
I think that if you are going to require a degree in order to qualify for a job then that degree should be pertinent to that job or its possible progression path. So for an airline pilot it could be a degree in aviation or a degree in business, management, etc.

Just requiring any degree is ridiculous. What good would a art history or music degree do an airline pilot in the performance of their pilot job or a higher level job at the airline? The answer is, not a damn bit of good.

If you have the requisite knowledge and skills, a degree makes no difference. Now in certain fields or occupations, having the degree is the easiest way to demonstrate subject matter expertise. However, in aviation having the appropriate FAA certificates and ratings, the flight hours, and a clean record should more than suffice for a line pilot position.
 
I won’t argue the merits of degree vs non degree in a personal growth sense. The simple fact is, some PILOT jobs require it, others don’t. Having a degree in my particular flying gig has nothing to do with getting hired and does nothing for me in pay or advancement (minus mgmt).
 
SkyDog58 said:
Just requiring any degree is ridiculous. What good would a art history or music degree do an airline pilot in the performance of their pilot job or a higher level job at the airline? The answer is, not a damn bit of good.
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True. It does nothing in terms of performance of the actual specific tasks you're hiring for. The degree accomplishes one thing and one thing only. It allows a person who does not know the applicants they're judging from Adam to quickly separate the applications they receive into two piles.

In one pile, they have a group of people who have demonstrated that at one point in their life, they were able start and complete a multi-year endeavor without flunking out or getting kicked out or giving up. And they were able to conduct their personal life in a manner sufficient to allow them to find a way to pay for it, either through their own hard work or through a support network they were able to maintain.

In the other pile, you have people who may well be able to do all those things. But you will also most certainly have quite a few who will not.

Being able to do the job itself is the easy part. Flying planes ain't rocket science. Being able to show up on time and/or work out your personal crap on your own is as important as doing the job itself if not more so from a management perspective. Having a degree in no way guarantees an applicant will still have the same level of personal responsibility to show up and finish. But if you're placing a bet, and lets face it, placing a bet is exactly what a hiring manager does, putting your money on people from the group who managed to do it once is probably a better idea than putting your money on people from the group who have never done it.
 
James331 said:
For sure, it is what it is, however it’s still small brain, kinda like how in some third world places you get more respect and service if you’re wearing more silly gold bars or other “flair”

If you look at the better companies, it’s more about your experience and what you bring to the table vs silly little pieces of meaningless paper, giving a leg up to a person a degree is lesbian dance theory just because is really low brow.

But to each their own, I’ll still have lunch the next day just the same.
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Maybe. Delta hires 23 year olds with 2000TT and no turbine PIC over a guy with 10000TT and 8000 turbine PIC. It’s more about being a well rounded pilot. They already know you can fly an airplane because you have an ATP. It’s more about the extra curricular activity, volunteer activity, what you do for your community, etc.
 
Juliet Hotel said:
True. It does nothing in terms of performance of the actual specific tasks you're hiring for. The degree accomplishes one thing and one thing only. It allows a person who does not know the applicants they're judging from Adam to quickly separate the applications they receive into two piles.

In one pile, they have a group of people who have demonstrated that at one point in their life, they were able start and complete a multi-year endeavor without flunking out or getting kicked out or giving up. And they were able to conduct their personal life in a manner sufficient to allow them to find a way to pay for it, either through their own hard work or through a support network they were able to maintain.

In the other pile, you have people who may well be able to do all those things. But you will also most certainly have quite a few who will not.

Being able to do the job itself is the easy part. Flying planes ain't rocket science. Being able to show up on time and/or work out your personal crap on your own is as important as doing the job itself if not more so from a management perspective. Having a degree in no way guarantees an applicant will still have the same level of personal responsibility to show up and finish. But if you're placing a bet, and lets face it, placing a bet is exactly what a hiring manager does, putting your money on people from the group who managed to do it once is probably a better idea than putting your money on people from the group who have never done it.
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You could say the same thing about hiring veterans. You’re hoping the work ethic they learned in the military will carry over to civilian life. Fact is, doesn’t matter if you’re a veteran or someone with a degree, work ethic is an individual trait that can’t be predicted until you hire that person. That kind of history on a resume helps but I’ve worked with lazy vets and lazy people who have degrees. Some cases both.

I think you’re discounting actual flying experience as it relates to one’s ability to perform on the job. Plenty of pilots in my line of work get hired with the mins and either bust out in training or they have issues handling the flying after training. They got into the field without any challenging type of flying and in some cases, I have no doubt lied about their hours. Now they’re in over their heads, scared the crap out of their medcrews on more than one occasion and were shown the door. Specific hours that pertain to the type of flying you’re applying for, do matter.

Flying experience is even more important in insurance premiums than it is in private flying. A degree doesn’t get entered into the equation in lowering rates. It’s not even on the annual questionnaire. What keeps premiums down is hiring a pilot with 4,000 hrs with a history of flying that relates to the job vs hiring a pilot with 2,000 hrs of flying traffic patterns. Doesn’t matter that we believe the time is arbitrary nonsense, the insurance companies give it credence and adjust their rates accordingly.

Really getting the job comes down to supply and demand. The industry right now is hiring anyone with 9 fingers, a heartbeat and has the min hours. I’m sure the climate will change but right now, beggars can’t be choosers.
 
I worked for a guy in IT, and he had good results hiring music majors as entry level software developers - I suspect, but don't know, that there are similarities in the progression of creative "design", the "logic".

But it was a diffrent kind of company - HR was not a gate keeper, and had no say in hiring (or the rare firing), or interviews - their role was job fairs, on boarding paperwork, benefits admin, etc.

The CEO's attitude was that HR folks were not qualified to have an opinion on candidate's knowledge and skills. We had a laminted one page guide on interviewing does and don'ts - it really isn't that hard to stay out of trouble.

We didn't have a hard requirement for a degree, but it was a handicap to progression from the tech ranks if you weren't a good writer, or able to converse easily with some well educated people.
 
Having a degree will get you past most HR screening type people.

Some companies don't screen out based on it, but if an interview occurs the question "why not" or "would you ever" can come up, so be sure to have a reasonable response to that.

Oddly, some people ask about why a candidate chose to go to the military instead of college. Good answers there are to serve, to gain life skills, I like being part of a team, stuff like that.

The question I was always asked (before I went out on my own) was why I took 13 years to get a BA. I explain I worked full time, and went to school part time. I got a lot of work experience and my employer reimbursed all of the costs of the education. That answer is true and sounds good. ;)

So go to school young man!
 
Velocity173 said:
You could say the same thing about hiring veterans. You’re hoping the work ethic they learned in the military will carry over to civilian life. Fact is, doesn’t matter if you’re a veteran or someone with a degree, work ethic is an individual trait that can’t be predicted until you hire that person. That kind of history on a resume helps but I’ve worked with lazy vets and lazy people who have degrees. Some cases both.
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Agreed. As I said its a betting game. That is exactly why some companies choose to require degrees. There are lazy drama queens both with degrees and without. And in each case, there is no good way to tell which side of that question the person you're looking at is going to end up on. The conventional wisdom is, if you require a degree, you'll end up guessing wrong less often than if you ignore degree status and just try to guess based on their interview and work experience. And just to clarify, I know we're talking about professional flying here, but my comments on the subject are more directed at all hiring for all fields of work in general.

I work in trucking now and I currently hire and fire as part of my job. I've held a similar position in the past in various career fields including aviation. Anytime you have a position to fill in almost any field, you expect to have to hire several in order to weed out the bad ones and find the one good one that sticks long term. Looking back over all the hires I've made in all the various industries I've worked it becomes apparent that the ones with degrees turned out to be bad hires less often than the ones without. And that's why companies do it. Conventional wisdom would lead you to expect similar results when it comes to those with military backgrounds but in my experience that hasn't proven to be true nearly as often as a college background.
 
A degree is not required for the ATP. However, in pursuing a career as an ATP-certificated pilot, a degree may be a valuable asset. Any degree, but obviously one related to the aviation industry may be a wiser choice than, say, interior design or art history.

Speaking as an educator, a degree is a credential that primarily attests to your ability to begin and finish something on time and with specific effort. The same can be attested by your PPL, CPL, and eventually ATP. So the question is, what does an academic degree give you on top of your FAA certificates?

Well, an academic degree could give you the experience of socializing with adults outside your immediate family (if you are fresh out of high school), the ability to evaluate sources of information, the analytical skills that lay the foundation of problem-solving, and communication skills that are essential for advancement as a professional and an individual.

In other words, higher education prepares you to be something bigger than just a pilot, an accountant, a historian, an engineer, etc. It gives you the skills and the tools to be a steward of the republic -- I know it sounds idealistic but that's how it is.

As you advance in your career you may find yourself in positions of increased responsibility and authority. You will need strong communication skills. These skills are not part of your PPL or ATP training. You learn how to communicate effectively during the general education portion of your college studies.

You will also need good quantitative skills: anything from budget planning to performance reviews requires math. Again, this is something that you learn in college. Business methodology is also something you learn in college. I don't think the CPL knowledge test asks you about the difference between op ex and cap ex.

Down the road, you may find yourself on a career track that can benefit from an MBA or a JD. And your employer may, or may not, support you in pursuing these degrees.

These days we are contemplating the future of employment, in light of increased automation. Higher education is in an identity crisis, trying to figure out how to exist in a future when vocational training may no longer be relevant. And that's why I stroke an idealistic tone earlier: in such a vocation-less future, well-educated stewards of the republic can make the difference between a thriving society and a dystopian one.
 
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GreatLakesFlying said:
Speaking as an educator, a degree is a credential that primarily attests to your ability to begin and finish something on time and with specific effort.
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I’m sure sales people, speaking as sales people, think folks should buy a new car every 6mo too lol


Ravioli said:
I can't believe @James331 hasn't mentioned Nursing school yet. ;)
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Oh as far as buying education goes, the trades are often the best ROI, we every weekend 2 year RN program, low tuition, great ROI.

Also NDI is a good one to look into.

Living in a college town with a few universities, much of what they offer is a scam, or at best a bad enough deal that if the schools had to hold the paper on the tuition loans, ether prices would drop or they’d stop offering many of the scammy “programs”.

I know quite a few bartenders with lots of debt who bought degrees that went no where, frankly you don’t even need a high school diploma to pour a bud light for the next generation of kids taking loans for go no where degrees.
 
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