Dec 7, 1941

Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by Let'sgoflying!, Dec 7, 2018 at 11:20 AM.

  1. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Asked a 28-yo employee the significance of this date.
    Did ok but not quite as complete an answer as hoped for.
     
  2. Stingray Don

    Stingray Don Pattern Altitude

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    I’m impressed he had any knowledge of the events of that day. I suspect many would not.
     
  3. wanttaja

    wanttaja En-Route

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    Ask a 60-year-old the significance of August 24th, 1814.

    Time marches on, and people who have even a tenuous connection with a given historical event get fewer and fewer. Thus memories of events tend to fade. It's the way life works.

    The exception to this is the military, which maintains battle honors to keep its history fresh. This tends to rub off on those who have served.

    Ron Wanttaja
     
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  4. Zeldman

    Zeldman Final Approach

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    ''December 7th, 1941 -- a date which will live in infamy'' will one day be only known to historians and a few die hard folks.

    I mean who remembers March 6, 1836 outside of Texas.??
     
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  5. Pilawt

    Pilawt Final Approach

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    B-17 "Sentimental Journey" just made a fly-by in downtown Phoenix.

    Thanks, CAF.

    :)
     
  6. midwestpa24

    midwestpa24 Line Up and Wait

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    For reference, there are kids graduating high school today with no recollection of 9/11 beyond what they read in the history books or see in documentaries.
     
  7. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

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    We had a contingent of Japanese computer execs show up in our office on December 7 a few years ago. I had to warn my ex-marine marketing guy to please try to avoid bringing up Pearl Harbor during the conversation. Normally, I'd get memos on this from him that start with "If you can't stand the heat, stay out of Nagasaki" and the like.
     
  8. cgrab

    cgrab Cleared for Takeoff

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    My Uncle Leon never let us forget. He was an Ensign on the Arizona. At sundown on December 7 he rowed out to his ship and lowered the flag. I have a print of the picture by Tom Freeman. His name is etched on one of the stones encircling the Arizona anchor.
     
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  9. Salty

    Salty En-Route

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    I made a doctor appointment for today last week. When the scheduler said the date, I said “ah, Pearl Harbor” and she just looked at me like I was speaking Japanese.
     
  10. Ted DuPuis

    Ted DuPuis Administrator Management Council Member

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    Yep. One day I'll be the old codger who remembers that. Who am I kidding, I'm already that old codger.

    Very true. Plus relations change over time, borders change. Taking Germany and Japan as examples, I imagine few believed in the early days of 1942 that we would ever have good relations with those countries. Yet today, our relations are quite good. Go back further and those in the late 1700s I doubt would ever have thought that we would have good relations with England. Nothing on this Earth is truly permanent, not even continents. Certainly not boundaries or policies.

    With few exceptions, we are ultimately all forgotten one day. "The final death."
     
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  11. midwestpa24

    midwestpa24 Line Up and Wait

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    I feel that way too.
     
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  12. IK04

    IK04 Pre-Flight

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    I prefer April 21, 1836. The "battle" of San Jacinto. We got revenge for the Texians lost in Goliad. "Come And Take It!"
     
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  13. wanttaja

    wanttaja En-Route

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    The tusks which clashed in mighty brawls
    Of mastodons, are billiard balls.

    The sword of Charlemagne the Just
    Is Ferric Oxide, known as rust.

    The grizzly bear, whose potent hug,
    Was feared by all, is now a rug.

    Great Caesar's bust is on the shelf,
    And I don't feel so well myself.


    Arthur Guiterman

    Ron Wanttaja
     
  14. FlySince9

    FlySince9 En-Route

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    "Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it!"
     
  15. FlySince9

    FlySince9 En-Route

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    There is a very major difference between not knowing/remembering and never being taught in the first place... I'm afraid that is where we are today... Our history, especially if it doesn't conform to the PC crowd, has no place in the classroom anymore.
     
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  16. kayoh190

    kayoh190 Pattern Altitude

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    D2F4E00F-725D-4759-990E-B86A1E9B9DE1.jpeg

    Those stinkin’ Germans!
     
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  17. Ted DuPuis

    Ted DuPuis Administrator Management Council Member

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    As time marches on and there is an increasing amount of history to teach (that amount can only go up), decisions have to be made about what to teach. My wife and I were talking about the differences in what she was taught (in small town Nebraska) vs. what I was taught in NYC private school and then public high school. For her it was a lot more US-focused history, where for me it was a lot more world history, and getting even to WW2 and later was at the very end. Much more focus on the distant past than the recent, although when the Berlin Wall fell we did listen to coverage of that on the radio.

    I think some of the thought process in New York was that we had relatives alive who remembered the more modern events and would tell us first hand. That may have been true, and we did have some of that. I wish my grandmother had told me more about her memories of WWII, but my mom told me some about what my grandmother had told her, and some memories from her childhood (she was born a few days after D-Day).

    Which history should be prioritized, that's up for debate.
     
  18. FlySince9

    FlySince9 En-Route

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    @Ted DuPuis
    Sounds about right... I went to NYC public schools from 1961 to 1973... We got an ear full of US/American history... A little world history... Don't remember specifically covering WWII but like you said... I had a lot of uncles that fought in that one...
     
  19. Pilawt

    Pilawt Final Approach

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    Part of the problem, I think, is that students today are getting history through too many filters. Rather than returning to primary sources, they are hearing through teachers, commentators and editors that theirs is the only rational, moral, ethical generation in history; that all who came before were racist, sexist, superstitious morons and villains, whose words are not worthy of the time to consider them.

    As the Soviet-era Russian joke said, "The future is certain. It's the past that keeps changing."
     
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  20. midwestpa24

    midwestpa24 Line Up and Wait

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    Ours was world history, and ended around WW2, mainly because the books were just that old!
     
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  21. kyleb

    kyleb En-Route

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    One challenge is that there aren't many people left who fought in WWII. When I was a kid, I knew older men in the community who fought in the war - Army, Navy, Marines, etc. I knew two gentlemen who survived the Bataan Death March. You couldn't swing a cat without it hitting a new WWII movie or book.

    We're far enough removed today that the heroics of WWII have been replaced by the latest tragedy to befall the Kardashians.
     
  22. Everskyward

    Everskyward Administrator Management Council Member

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    I went to New Jersey public schools in the 1960s and 70s. I'm pretty sure we learned predominantly about US history, and very little about world history.

    History is always taught through "filters". The act of deciding what events to study introduces a filter, not to mention the various viewpoints that surround an event. There's no such thing as unbiased history.
     
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  23. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    Our neighbor Hilda has a different memory of WWII, she is old country German, She once told me that every young man in her high school was killed, Her husband was 14 when the brown shirts came and took him away. he once told me he had a choice, be killed or go with them. he said he and his group were hiding in a ditch, when the American troops saved him.

    Very interesting to listen to their stories.
     
  24. Stingray Don

    Stingray Don Pattern Altitude

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    My history books were cave paintings :(
     
  25. Zeldman

    Zeldman Final Approach

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    As a kid back in the mid 60s I remember a really friendly, nice man on the block. I thought he was old at probably mid to late 30s. His wife didn't come outside much but her husband was always outside. He was always working in the yard and he would help us work on our bicycles and wagons. One thing I remember about both of them was the numbers tattooed on their left arm. They survived Auschwitz concentration complex as children. Must have had some really bad memories as the only ones to receive tattoos were not immediately led to the gas chambers but were usually put to forced work. I can only imagine what they went through as children.
     
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  26. Tom-D

    Tom-D Taxi to Parking

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    About 1950 +- the farm next to us was bought by a Checo-slovack couple named "Imp" kids around the hood had fun with that. but when "Paul took sick my dad flew him out to get better medical help. I remember he had a tattoo of a number on his arm.
     
  27. Sundancer

    Sundancer Pattern Altitude

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    The Spencer Air Car designer died in the mid 1990s, I believe. His dad was the Spencer rifle inventor - if you were around in 1990 or so, you could have talked to a guy whose father had known Lincoln. Cool, quite a span. . .

    Then again, when I was a kid in the 60s, just about any adult male older than mid-late 30s was a likely a WWII vet. Now most of those guys are gone.
     
  28. Ted DuPuis

    Ted DuPuis Administrator Management Council Member

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    I agree with @Everskyward that you always have a filter on history. Even if I tell my story of September 11th, 2001 as someone who was there, it was my view, only of being on the ground in New York. DC and Flight 93 I rarely even think about. That’s a filter.