Dangerous request from airport manager?

[flyingbrit]

I got the following e-mail from my home drone manager:

Good morning all,​

​

As the area resident population continues to grow, so do varying appreciations for aircraft noise. As stewards of aviation, practice and repetition of flying skills is paramount to safety and enjoyment. However, the noise that comes along with such practice is not always the most welcomed side effect by some of our neighbors. As a courtesy to the local resident perhaps some different practices could be implemented, while keeping safety, regulations and standards of the highest priority, such as alternating left-hand/right-hand traffic pattern, extending the legs of your traffic pattern and performing run-ups on the ramp or apron. Again, with keeping safety, regulations and standards foremost, should you decide to perform any of these alternate tactics, please do so only at your convenience and as conditions and operations allow. Please feel free to reach out with any questions or comments.​

​

Anyone else think his suggestions are dangerous, especially the alternating LH/RH traffic pattern?

 

[Tarheelpilot]

I would do the run up on ramp.

You can’t arbitrarily fly any pattern you want. The request to do so is a declaration of ignorance by your airport manager.

The longer final perhaps depending on the airplane.

 

[schmookeeg]

How busy are english aerodrome patterns typically? that would set up a demolition derby here when we get 6+ in the pattern. Perhaps the safety impact there is different?

 

[Jeff Oslick]

It is not unusual for noise abatement procedures to include "on takeoff from runway X, no turns before (Y, landmark) or reaching (800, 1000) feet. Often there are requests to not extend patterns over schools or specific clusters of housing. I suggest you need to have an airport user's meeting to discuss possibly formalized noise abatement procedures.

 

[Baked Potato]

"And to improve our compliance with local noise abatement procedures, please perform all approaches as if you were practicing an engine out emergency situation. I thank you in advance or taking these suggestions into consideration!"

 

[midwestpa24]

If the OP is based in England, I don't know what their regulations say about traffic patterns.

I would recommend sitting down with the manager to come up with more formal noise abatement patterns than just throwing out random ideas.

 

[flyingbrit]

I am afraid my handle is misleading. The airport is in USA. FWIW, "traffic pattern" is USA specific, in ROW it is "traffic circuit".

 

[flyingbrit]

Sure you can. You *shouldn't* but uncontrolled airport patterns are advisory, not regulatory.

EDITED: 'In the US'

I beg to differ. 91.126 indicates it is regulatory:

§ 91.126 Operating on or in the vicinity of an airport in Class G airspace.
(a) General. Unless otherwise authorized or required, each person operating an aircraft on or in the vicinity of an airport in a Class G airspace area must comply with the requirements of this section.

(b) Direction of turns. When approaching to land at an airport without an operating control tower in Class G airspace—

(1) Each pilot of an airplane must make all turns of that airplane to the left unless the airport displays approved light signals or visual markings indicating that turns should be made to the right, in which case the pilot must make all turns to the right; and

(2) Each pilot of a helicopter or a powered parachute must avoid the flow of fixed-wing aircraft.

 

[mandm]

Anyone got that AI video maker tool?

Let’s use it to make a video of someone’s aircraft flying the wrong traffic pattern, wonder what it would look like.

But yes traffic patterns are advisory at non controlled fields. There are suggestions to follow for various reasons. Even at controlled fields they will alternate traffic or have traffic on both left and right side of the same runway for separation purposes. If it isn’t busy and you are coming in, fly direct.

 

[Half Fast]

such as alternating left-hand/right-hand traffic pattern,

I presume your airport manager is not a pilot, or else he would know better. You might point out that this would be a CFR violation, and gently suggest that he familiarize himself with the rules and advisories regarding airport operations before making suggestions that might be both illegal and dangerous.

As has been suggested above, a more formalized noise abatement plan might be a good idea, but first you'll need to understand just what problem you're trying to solve. The manager has probably been getting some complaints, so try to learn some specifics. Who's complaining, and what's their location? Is there a specific time of day that's an issue? The solution might be something simple like, "For departures from 23, maintain runway heading until at or above 1000'." You'll have to define the problem before attempting to solve it.

 

[chemgeek]

Yep, formalized noise abatement procedures is the way. This might include climb and or heading recommendations on takeoff before turning on course or on crosswind, calm wind runway recommendations, and/or establishing formal right traffic patterns (and publishing in the chart supplement) if appropriate.

Our local airport has a calm wind runway recommendation to direct traffic away from the village in no-wind situations, as well as an altitude recommendation before turning on course, and this seems to keep noise complaints down. Turbine traffic always generates complaints, especially for aircraft on instrument approaches which pass right over the village proper.

 

[dmspilot]

Sure you can. You *shouldn't* but uncontrolled airport patterns are advisory, not regulatory.

91.126(b) is advisory, not regulatory?

 

[TommyG]

Easy solutions, get the complainers to move.

 

[Racerx]

Maybe....big maybe. The airport manager was trying to say right pattern 27 left pattern 9?

 

[midwestpa24]

I think this manager may need to take a little time to consider the liability on himself and the airport with his suggestions. This is why a more studied and formal noise abatement procedure, if needed, should have been done instead.

 

[n1g1a]

These are suggestions or wrong if not published in the AF/D (or perhaps another approved pub). The AF/D does publish specific noise abatement procedures, and at one field I was told the reason was because of complaints from a local mansion owner.

 

[Palmpilot]

Maybe....big maybe. The airport manager was trying to say right pattern 27 left pattern 9?

Per 91.126(b)(1), he could do that by putting in markings to that effect that are visible from the air. It should also be put in the A/FD section of the Chart Supplement.

 

[RussR]

91.126(b) is advisory, not regulatory?

I'm on your side on this, right traffic patterns established as required in 91.126(b) are regulatory, I see no way to argue the opposite.

What I don't know is the regulatory status of airports that have right traffic established, published in the AFD, published on the sectional chart, and yet do NOT have markings on the ground showing it. The regulations only mention one way to require right traffic, but airport markings. So does the absence of those markings, even if it's published elsewhere, negate that requirement and make it advisory only?

This is not just a hypothetical, one of my local airports has right traffic charted and AFD'ed, but not marked. It used to be up until 2012, but then the markings were removed for some reason (most likely it made it easier to mow without them).

The proximity of the airport (HSD) to the Class D airport to the SE (PWA) makes the reason for the right traffic to runway 18 obvious.



It's on the chart and in the AFD but no markings. We do somewhat routinely have people making left traffic to runway 18. Obviously they're not waiting to look for a segmented circle before deciding which pattern direction to fly. Clearly they aren't looking at the chart or the AFD either, though. But are they in violation of 91.126? I don't believe that they are, since there are no ground markings. Violation of 91.103, possibly, but not 91.126.

I talked with a couple of pilots at the fuel pumps one day, who had flown left traffic. They acted quite surprised - "what? when did that change?" Well, I know it's been that way for at least the 17 years I've been here, and both airports have been there since the mid-60's, so I suspect it's almost ALWAYS been right traffic.

 

[Dana]

It's also not unusual for airports with glider or ultralight activity to have one side traffic for airplanes and the opposite side for gliders or ultralights.

 

[Dave Theisen]

Tell my you’re not qualified to be an airport manager without saying “I’m not qualified to be an airport manager”.

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

Pretty polite letter and it's only a request if that.
The dude has to address a problem.
Typically we get heavy-handed mandates, this is a really nice first option.
He does mention twice how safety is paramount.
Gonna give him credit for trying.
Maybe his audience will push back. I can imagine what happens after that. Not good for GA.

 

[Half Fast]

Pretty polite letter and it's only a request if that.
The dude has to address a problem.
Typically we get heavy-handed mandates, this is a really nice first option.
He does mention twice how safety is paramount.
Gonna give him credit for trying.
Maybe his audience will push back. I can imagine what happens after that. Not good for GA.

True, but.....

Probably without realizing it, he is suggesting something that will actually reduce safety. A polite conversation is in order to help him understand the problem with suggesting pilots randomly decide whether to fly a left or right pattern. Hopefully this manager will then realize that he really really needs to familiarize himself with the regulations and advisories.

 

[Half Fast]

Tell my you’re not qualified to be an airport manager without saying “I’m not qualified to be an airport manager”.

What are the qualifications to be an airport manager, anyway? I doubt there are any official ones, but maybe there should be.

@RyanB , care to engage?

 

[Larry in TN]

What I don't know is the regulatory status of airports that have right traffic established, published in the AFD, published on the sectional chart, and yet do NOT have markings on the ground showing it.

The regulation is clear. The determining factor is the "approved light signals or visual markings", not what is published in the A/FD or on the sectional. It is the airport manager's responsibility to ensure that the A/FD and sectional match the markings. I would bring that to his attention. I did that on one occasion and he had it removed from the A/FD and sectional as they had no reason to maintain the RP when the tower was closed.

The next question is, what are the "approved light signals" for a right-hand pattern? I've been trying to find that answer for over three decades including asking quite a few FAA inspectors. Best I can figure is that it is a left over from the early days of aviation but I've only been doing this since 1981.

 

[RussR]

It is the airport manager's responsibility to ensure that the A/FD and sectional match the markings.

I was looking to try to find the requirements for airport markings (as in, is the airport required to provide markings indicating right traffic if it's published elsewhere), and I find the following text in AC 150/5340-5D:


While this paragraph seems pretty definitive that these markings are required, this is an "AC", and paragraph 5 of the AC says that these are just recommended practices for airports, unless the markings are funded by AIP funds, then it's mandatory to follow the guidelines. I have no idea if segmented circles are generally federally funded or not. My example airport is a privately-owned (but publicly accessible) airport, so I don't think they have taken AIP funds.

The next question is, what are the "approved light signals" for a right-hand pattern? I've been trying to find that answer for over three decades including asking quite a few FAA inspectors. Best I can figure is that it is a left over from the early days of aviation but I've only been doing this since 1981.

I have no idea either! The AC above doesn't mention any kind of lighting system.

I did learn, though, that an airport can be closed to all operations just by removing the windsock and placing an X inside the segmented circle. I can't imagine many people would notice the ABSENCE of a windsock as evidence that anything was going on except it needed to be replaced.

 

[Dana]

The next question is, what are the "approved light signals" for a right-hand pattern? I've been trying to find that answer for over three decades

Nobody knows as the FAA has never approved any. But if they ever do approve one, you have to follow it...

Local airport, 9B8. Right traffic for 17, left for 35 per the chart and A/FD. No segmented circle, which is noted in the A/FD (and no runway lights, but it has a VASI, only one I've ever seen on a grass strip).

 

[Rgbeard]

I wonder who “the resident” is…

 

[Charlie Golf]

Alternating RH/LH traffic patterns? I'm trying to imagine what that would mean. It would alternate with each aircraft in the pattern? Maybe by date: odd days are right traffic, even days are left traffic? Lol.

The only sure thing is that the end result will be a cluster----.

 

[MBDiagMan]

I’m curious. Who was there first, the airport or the complaining people who live around the airport?

I’ve hangared at four different airports over the years. Only one of them had a pilot as an airport manager and it is BY FAR, the best airport of the four. Funny how it works that way.

 

[Charlie Golf]

Easy solutions, get the complainers to move.

Good idea. There's a good chance the complainers just moved in, so maybe they haven't unpacked yet.

 

[TommyG]

Good idea. There's a good chance the complainers just moved in, so maybe they haven't unpacked yet.

Can always go The Godfather route, a horse head may do the trick.

 

[douglas393]

A little confused here. At a towered field while the tower is open the way I land is based on what the tower tells me. If circumstances require me to do something different then I need permission from the tower. Either way the tower tells me what to do. At an uncontrolled field it is left traffic unless otherwise specified. I always thought this was based on regulations not advisory. Is this not so?

 

[Palmpilot]

A little confused here. At a towered field while the tower is open the way I land is based on what the tower tells me. If circumstances require me to do something different then I need permission from the tower. Either way the tower tells me what to do. At an uncontrolled field it is left traffic unless otherwise specified. I always thought this was based on regulations not advisory. Is this not so?

You are correct.

 

[Racerx]

A little confused here. At a towered field while the tower is open the way I land is based on what the tower tells me. If circumstances require me to do something different then I need permission from the tower. Either way the tower tells me what to do. At an uncontrolled field it is left traffic unless otherwise specified. I always thought this was based on regulations not advisory. Is this not so?

Your confusion stems from the airport managers confusion...or unawareness.

 

[Racerx]

Per 91.126(b)(1), he could do that by putting in markings to that effect that are visible from the air. It should also be put in the A/FD section of the Chart Supplement.

No doubt. But that's the only explanation that makes sense to me. I'm assuming even a non flying airport manager should realize going right and left patterns willy nilly is asking for trouble. Just unaware to know there's a way to accomplish it.

 

[Palmpilot]

No doubt. But that's the only explanation that makes sense to me. I'm assuming even a non flying airport manager should realize going right and left patterns willy nilly is asking for trouble. Just unaware to know there's a way to accomplish it.

Seems like an opportunity to let the airport manager know how to accomplish it.

Here's an example at Half Moon Bay:

Half Moon Bay Airport · 9850 Cabrillo Hwy, Half Moon Bay, CA 94019

★★★★☆ · Airport

www.google.com

 

[RyanB]

What are the qualifications to be an airport manager, anyway? I doubt there are any official ones, but maybe there should be.

@RyanB , care to engage?

Can’t speak for everywhere, but they do seem to like a bachelor’s in aviation management or a related field of business, with a pilot certificate and knowledge of the aviation industry. To some degree, it’s a job you learn by being thrown in the fire.

 

[Half Fast]

Can’t speak for everywhere, but they do seem to like a bachelor’s in aviation management or a related field of business, with a pilot certificate and knowledge of the aviation industry. To some degree, it’s a job you learn by being thrown in the fire.

That would make sense. I can’t imagine this manager has those qualifications, unfortunately.

 

[dtuuri]

The next question is, what are the "approved light signals" for a right-hand pattern? I've been trying to find that answer for over three decades including asking quite a few FAA inspectors.

I have no idea either! The AC above doesn't mention any kind of lighting system.

Nobody knows as the FAA has never approved any. But if they ever do approve one, you have to follow it...

Guys, it's a flashing amber light on the control tower at night or near the center of the segmented circle. If that's changed since I was a Cub Scout, I missed the memo.

 

[Larry in TN]

Guys, it's a flashing amber light on the control tower at night or near the center of the segmented circle. If that's changed since I was a Cub Scout, I missed the memo.

I've heard that, but have never been able to find a reference for it. Do you know of one?