Customer got hit by a prop today.

Tom-D

Tom-D

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Tom-D
I was completing the compression test on #4 cylinder on the 0-200, I had the cylinder at TDC with 80 PSI on the tester gauge and it was showing 74/80. I ws standing on the left side of the engine the owner was in front of the prop, I held the tester up so the owner could read the numbers, he leaned in to better see the gauge and pushed the blade down,bring the piston off TDC and WACK. it happened so fast I didn't have time to do any thing by ask " Are you all right, did it hit you" he responded Yes, while taking off his hat, blood was already running down his neck.
Last I saw him he was on his way to the ER, he sat around a few minutes and made certain he was not going to pass out, he got one hell of a cut, above and just behind his left ear.
It took a good 15 minutes for me to get my belly to quite flip flopping.

In all my years as an A&P I've never had any thing like this happen. The owner was well away from the prop as we did the other three, What made him step in and move the prop off center I have no idea.

I'll let you know later how he is doing.
 
Hope he is alright and it wasn't real serious. I won't say my opinion of why it happened, but hopefully he is ok.
 
I was always taught to treat that thing at all times with the same respect of a loaded gun or walking behind a horse...don't put anything in its path you are not willing to loose.
 
Oww. But, to the extent he is okay, it's not the worst thing that could happen.
 
mscard88 said:
Hope he is alright and it wasn't real serious. I won't say my opinion of why it happened, but hopefully he is ok.
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What can you blame for impulsive actions? He knew better than to move the prop, this isn't his first time around his aircraft doing compressions checks. three times today I showed him the gauges so he could record number. the fourth time he moves the prop. WTF?
 
When he touched the prop, your hands slipped off it? Trying to understand what happened, because it almost sounds like a pressurized cylinder was left balancing on TDC unattended, and nobody is that stupid.
 
I've never been around for compression checks on an airplane, why do you stop it at TDC?
 
My neighbor was vaccinating cattle in a chute with a head gate. Has done thousands of cows. Latch came loose one time and hit him head and killed him. Accidents happen
 
My A&P is always extremely careful when doing compression checks and doesn't like anyone near the prop and always keeps his hand on it.
 
The downside of owner assisted annuals; A+P medical liability?
I'd like to say what a dufus but I've seen and experienced waay too much karma to say something like that..with meaning!
He'll have a cool story to tell, Ya, got such a hard head I can survive being hit by a prop.
(sounds like a flesh wound; hoping anyway.)
 
tyndall said:
When he touched the prop, your hands slipped off it?
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Pretty much.

who's ever ready for that happen?

And it wasn't unattended.

Try harder, you can find someone to play the blame game with.
 
Head wounds always bleed a lot. I'm betting he'll be fine with both one heck of a story and a scar to match. Biker chics dig scars !
 
Cooter143 said:
I've never been around for compression checks on an airplane, why do you stop it at TDC?
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Because that is where the combustion chamber is sealed and the piston will stay at that setting with pressure applied
EppyGA said:
My A&P is always extremely careful when doing compression checks and doesn't like anyone near the prop and always keeps his hand on it.
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I'd like to watch him listen to the exhaust while holding the prop.
 
Art VanDelay said:
Head wounds always bleed a lot. I'm betting he'll be fine with both one heck of a story and a scar to match. Biker chics dig scars !
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He has a shaved place on his head at work tomorrow he's going to tell his co-workers he had a lobotomy so he can think like them.
 
I guess giving the customers prop lobotomies is one way to cure the relationship..... :lol:
 
EppyGA said:
My A&P is always extremely careful when doing compression checks and doesn't like anyone near the prop and always keeps his hand on it.
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Do you believe that when they are doing the compression check, holding the tester, turning on the air pressure, they could hold the prop in one place when you pushed it?

I can't, and I'm not getting pulled into the prop because you did some thing stupid.
 
Thus.... My t-shirt...

(Apologies, it was in the dirty hamper, I wore it to one of the FAA writtens... Haha)

058ce3b2c28ca82095eede43668f4831.jpg


edec1b05e1656fce0cca90e24fd67a63.jpg
 
One day last week I took a C-207 to the maintenance hangar for a 50 hour. I was on the left side of the plane, behind the prop with the left side door open. As I bent over to put the chocks under the front wheel, A mechanic jumps into the plane, shouts clear and hits the key simultaneously.

No injuries, I was going to use the chocks for something else but the director of maintenance got to the mechanic first.

Lets be careful out there.
 
Zeldman said:
One day last week I took a C-207 to the maintenance hangar for a 50 hour. I was on the left side of the plane, behind the prop with the left side door open. As I bent over to put the chocks under the front wheel, A mechanic jumps into the plane, shouts clear and hits the key simultaneously.

No injuries, I was going to use the chocks for something else but the director of maintenance got to the mechanic first.

Lets be careful out there.
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I was taught to yell clear, then look around to see if anyone was around, then hit the starter. That few seconds and check is cheap insurance.
 
Cooter143 said:
I've never been around for compression checks on an airplane, why do you stop it at TDC?
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Compression checks on aircraft engines aren't done like we do on cars. We don't spin the engine and see ho much pressure it can generate. Air pressure is metered into one sparkplug hole using a differential compression tester, which measures the amount of air going into the cylinder, to see how much is escaping past valves or rings. The piston is placed at TDC while pressure is applied and held there firmly, maybe moving a bit to one side or the other to get the rings to seat or piston to cock a bit to get the best seal. You never gets in the way of that propeller and need to be ready to instantly get your hands out of the way if it decides to overpower you.
 
Dan Thomas said:
Compression checks on aircraft engines aren't done like we do on cars. We don't spin the engine and see ho much pressure it can generate.
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That's what I was wondering, thanks.
 
If you work on stuff, there will be blood sooner or later. No matter how careful and safety minded we try to be, we are human, and humans ain't perfect. Manure occurs.
 
Tom-D said:
Pretty much.

who's ever ready for that happen?

And it wasn't unattended.

Try harder, you can find someone to play the blame game with.
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Don't have to try hard at all. It doesn't appear that you recognize anything can be done to prevent an accident like this. The fault is the owner's alone for moving the prop? Got it. Let's all have someone stand in front of the prop and hold up the gauge so that anyone would likely need to lean through the prop arc to read the gauge. He did it three times without foolishly touching the prop so that proves there's nothing wrong with this picture. Is there ever a time you own up to a mistake? Maybe you should consider not allowing owners to be participating in compression checks if you can't control where they stand and what they do.
 
Dan Thomas said:
Compression checks on aircraft engines aren't done like we do on cars. We don't spin the engine and see ho much pressure it can generate. Air pressure is metered into one sparkplug hole using a differential compression tester, which measures the amount of air going into the cylinder, to see how much is escaping past valves or rings. The piston is placed at TDC while pressure is applied and held there firmly, maybe moving a bit to one side or the other to get the rings to seat or piston to cock a bit to get the best seal. You never gets in the way of that propeller and need to be ready to instantly get your hands out of the way if it decides to overpower you.
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So it's a leak down test I assume?
 
Can this operation be performed with both people standing behind the propeller? It's like a saw blade if you are never in the line of the saw, you can never get cut.
 
Witmo said:
Don't have to try hard at all. It doesn't appear that you recognize anything can be done to prevent an accident like this. The fault is the owner's alone for moving the prop? Got it. Let's all have someone stand in front of the prop and hold up the gauge so that anyone would likely need to lean through the prop arc to read the gauge. He did it three times without foolishly touching the prop so that proves there's nothing wrong with this picture. Is there ever a time you own up to a mistake? Maybe you should consider not allowing owners to be participating in compression checks if you can't control where they stand and what they do.
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Much can be done to prevent this, one can stay away from the prop when the test is being done..Secondly your statement makes no sense at all. you say stand in front of the prop holding the gauge, you must not understand the gauge is attached to the engine behind the prop by a hose. that really makes sense to have a hose strung thru the prop arc.
I was standing beside the engines's left side holding the gauge (tester) and the prop, he was in front of the aircraft (in front of the prop.)
he is the one who pushed the prop off TDC,
Witmo said:
Don't have to try hard at all. It doesn't appear that you recognize anything can be done to prevent an accident like this. The fault is the owner's alone for moving the prop? Got it. Let's all have someone stand in front of the prop and hold up the gauge so that anyone would likely need to lean through the prop arc to read the gauge. He did it three times without foolishly touching the prop so that proves there's nothing wrong with this picture. Is there ever a time you own up to a mistake? Maybe you should consider not allowing owners to be participating in compression checks if you can't control where they stand and what they do.
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What ever Timmy, we all know your willingness to blame me for every thing, so go play your blame game with some one else, It's a wonder you didn't say this accident was because I told a customer to glue his filter
Go away Tim, you only read what you want to believe anyway,.
 
Tom-D said:
What ever Timmy, we all know your willingness to blame me for every thing, so go play your blame game with some one else, It's a wonder you didn't say this accident was because I told a customer to glue his filter
Go away Tim, you only read what you want to believe anyway,.
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It wasn't me, I haven't even posted in this thread although I was was thinking along those lines as I was reading. This thread has gone something like:

Tom: I screwed up
Others: Yes, you screwed up
Tom: Go to hell, no I didn't.

Not a new theme.
 
yetti said:
Can this operation be performed with both people standing behind the propeller? It's like a saw blade if you are never in the line of the saw, you can never get cut.
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Compression checks are done safely with two people countless times by doing just as you suggest. Of course if you're an obstinate personality in denial, the chances of repeating this accident goes up drastically. If the owner had been killed or seriously injured, I wonder who would have been considered negligent--the professional mechanic for allowing the owner to participate in the procedure without adequate training or the owner alone. You decide.
 
Never had anyone hit by a prop while doing a compression check, but we always used at minimum, two people. One blade was wrapped in a beach towel and whom ever is controlling the prop was tightly wrapped around that blade. The second person handled the gauge, air on and off and the data recording. Got to be a little tough on doing the checks on an A-26 or Albatross simply due to prop size and location, and took a couple more people.
 
Tom, Tom, Tom, I'm from OSHA and I'm here to help you

Let's see:
1. No OSHA approved hard hat on you
2. No OSHA approved hard hat on customer
3. No OSHA approved safety fencing around a known hazard
4. Failure to fit customer with OSHA required automatic hand restraint
5. No OSHA approved warning signs for moving machinery
7. No OSHA required first aid station
8. Failure to provide OSHA required safety briefing to non emplo0yee entering the shop
9. Failure to file OSHA required report of a workplace injury

Fine will be $174,313.21
 
Witmo said:
Compression checks are done safely with two people countless times by doing just as you suggest. Of course if you're an obstinate personality in denial, the chances of repeating this accident goes up drastically. If the owner had been killed or seriously injured, I wonder who would have been considered negligent--the professional mechanic for allowing the owner to participate in the procedure without adequate training or the owner alone. You decide.
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Are you certain you are not Tim Winters?
 
Dr. O said:
Tom, Tom, Tom, I'm from OSHA and I'm here to help you

Let's see:
1. No OSHA approved hard hat on you
2. No OSHA approved hard hat on customer
3. No OSHA approved safety fencing around a known hazard
4. Failure to fit customer with OSHA required automatic hand restraint
5. No OSHA approved warning signs for moving machinery
7. No OSHA required first aid station
8. Failure to provide OSHA required safety briefing to non emplo0yee entering the shop
9. Failure to file OSHA required report of a workplace injury

Fine will be $174,313.21
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Send the bill/fine to the owner or the airport, they provided the unsafe work place for me the employee. :)
 
yetti said:
Can this operation be performed with both people standing behind the propeller?
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It can, but here's the thing, It can also be done by one person. When the cylinder is placed at TCD correctly, it will stay there till hell freezes over all by its self. the trick is, you don't touch it or get in the arc while obtaining the readings.
There are a multitude of A&P mechanics that do these checks safely every day all by them selves.
In this case I didn't place the owner in the prop arc, he knew better than to be there, yet he inadvertently bumped the prop while trying to get a better look at the gauge on the tester.
 
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