CPDLC envy

Let'sgoflying!

Let'sgoflying!

Touchdown! Greaser!
Joined
Feb 23, 2005
Messages
21,872
Location
west Texas
Display Name
Dave Taylor
Home Airfield
KMRF
I wanna!!!
What minimum hardware & connection is required?
Training?

Seems like this could be the next gadget aspiration for GA.

If we can do amazing things like GPS approaches, ForeFlight, inflight weather, ADS-B…..

How could this be done for <$5K?
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
I wanna!!!
What minimum hardware & connection is required?
Training?

Seems like this could be the next gadget aspiration for GA.

If we can do amazing things like GPS approaches, ForeFlight, inflight weather, ADS-B…..

How could this be done for <$5K?
Click to expand...
If you already have a GTN 750 Xi, supposedly they can do it now.

Go here: https://www.garmin.com/en-US/p/606798/

And scroll down to nearly the bottom where they talk about "FAA Data Comm".

You're not gonna be doing it for under $5K though.
 
It’s nice, but for CONUS work you’re not missing much, it shines compared to HF for crossings and the like, I’d wager the next big kid on the block will be Starlink.
 
Groundpounder said:
Unless you're in the flight levels, and/or flying out of big airports a lot, I don't think it would be worth the money
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Maybe @Let'sgoflying! just has too much money. If that's the case, I could use a five figure unsecured loan. He can DM me, and I'll provide routing and account numbers. Thanks!

:biggrin:
 
with the controller shortage and the efficiency cpdlc offers I just wonder if this is in our future.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
with the controller shortage and the efficiency cpdlc offers I just wonder if this is in our future.
Click to expand...

consider how it will work (or not) in a single-pilot situation.
 
Flying back from Bermuda, ATC was asking about what comms options we had, as we had no HF (and had applied for, and received, a waiver). We mentioned we had the InReach that can do text and email - so they ended up controlling us on an IFR flight plan via emails!
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
I wanna!!!
What minimum hardware & connection is required?
Training?

Seems like this could be the next gadget aspiration for GA.

If we can do amazing things like GPS approaches, ForeFlight, inflight weather, ADS-B…..

How could this be done for <$5K?
Click to expand...

We use CPDLC at work. For CONUS flights, we may or may not even bother logging in, because about the only thing you get over CPDLC domestically is frequency changes. After acknowledging it, you then put in the new frequency and call the next facility. That's it, not a real advantage.

For over water ops, it is definitely way better than listening to HF for hours, but that's a little outside of normal light GA operations.
 
RussR said:
We use CPDLC at work. For CONUS flights, we may or may not even bother logging in, because about the only thing you get over CPDLC domestically is frequency changes. After acknowledging it, you then put in the new frequency and call the next facility. That's it, not a real advantage.
Click to expand...
Personally I find getting the frequency via CPDLC a very nice feature and you're much less likely to enter a wrong frequency. On the 777 as an example, frequency, squawk etc. change color after the correct one is active.
From what ATC tells me, they like it too and it frees up the frequencies a bit.
 
At first this seems like a great idea, but now I'm not so sure.

We take in information visually and auditorily. Why shift to all visual? I'm flying , scanning the instruments, and looking outside. If I can hear information from ATC I get to keep my visual outside, etc.

Listening and repeating also helps absorb the information. By listening, writing it down in a short note and then orally repeating the instructions I am internalizing the information more than if I just read it silently.
 
RussR said:
We use CPDLC at work. For CONUS flights, we may or may not even bother logging in, because about the only thing you get over CPDLC domestically is frequency changes. After acknowledging it, you then put in the new frequency and call the next facility. That's it, not a real advantage.
Click to expand...

I mean most of the time this is true, but certain sectors love to use the hell out of it. I can't remember if it was Chicago or somewhere else, they used it to change our routing, change the arrival, give like 5 different altitude clearances, all in the span of about 3 minutes. I could barely hit ack quick enough to read the next one, and the bing bong must have happened 7 times as we were just trying to quickly re-brief the arrival changes. Certainly not the norm from what I've seen, but it can be used this way. The cherry on top was checking in with approach and getting a runway change (via voice) lol
 
WDD said:
At first this seems like a great idea, but now I'm not so sure.

We take in information visually and auditorily. Why shift to all visual? I'm flying , scanning the instruments, and looking outside. If I can hear information from ATC I get to keep my visual outside, etc.

Listening and repeating also helps absorb the information. By listening, writing it down in a short note and then orally repeating the instructions I am internalizing the information more than if I just read it silently.
Click to expand...
As someone else said, the biggest advantage is for the bigger equipment operators. Makes ocean crossings much easier not having to listen to actively try to communicate by voice on HF. We also receive our clearance this way before departure. Much easier to read the clearance instead of having to ask the other guy “what departure did he say?” when there can be a language issue.

It does help cut down on center frequency though because they are giving hand offs by CPDLC. That’s one less voice call cluttering up the frequency.
 
RussR said:
We use CPDLC at work. For CONUS flights, we may or may not even bother logging in, because about the only thing you get over CPDLC domestically is frequency changes. After acknowledging it, you then put in the new frequency and call the next facility. That's it, not a real advantage.

For over water ops, it is definitely way better than listening to HF for hours, but that's a little outside of normal light GA operations.
Click to expand...

They make reroutes so much easier.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
I was offered this on Sunday, seems like it’s happening!

View attachment 155200
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To be clear, that's not CPDLC. It's more like PDC, but I think technically it's not actually PDC, it's Foreflight Mobile Clearance. I'm not sure what the practical difference is between PDC and FFMC, they seem to accomplish the same function.
 
RussR said:
To be clear, that's not CPDLC. It's more like PDC, but I think technically it's not actually PDC, it's Foreflight Mobile Clearance. I'm not sure what the practical difference is between PDC and FFMC, they seem to accomplish the same function.
Click to expand...
Mobile Clearance (which is available in both ForeFlight and Garmin Pilot) is kinda more like calling up for your clearance but with a device instead of a phone - You still request the clearance. With PDC, ATC just sends it. And no, neither is CPDLC.

One wrinkle with Mobile Clearance: At my company, we use ForeFlight as our EFB, but we file through ARINC... And Mobile Clearance doesn't work unless you file with your EFB. :(
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
with the controller shortage and the efficiency cpdlc offers I just wonder if this is in our future.
Click to expand...
Could be, but be careful what you wish for. Pray that available doesn’t turn into mandatory. Nah, that couldn’t happen. Or could it. Can you spell ADSB boys and girls.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
One wrinkle with Mobile Clearance: At my company, we use ForeFlight as our EFB, but we file through ARINC... And Mobile Clearance doesn't work unless you file with your EFB. :(
Click to expand...
TIL ARINC was a service and a company and not just an avionics bus. Thanks!
 
GeorgeC said:
TIL ARINC was a service and a company and not just an avionics bus. Thanks!
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It's also the specifications for how procedures are coded into your GPS database! (Want to fight insomnia? Take a read through ARINC specification 424-18.)
 
luvflyin said:
Could be, but be careful what you wish for. Pray that available doesn’t turn into mandatory. Nah, that couldn’t happen. Or could it. Can you spell ADSB boys and girls.
Click to expand...
Wait until they require ADS-C...
 
GeorgeC said:
TIL ARINC was a service and a company and not just an avionics bus. Thanks!
Click to expand...
It's a surprising number of things! ARINC frequencies for FBOs, ARINC specifications for a number of things (you're probably thinking ARINC 429 for the avionics, plus the 424 data standard for the databases and a bunch of others), ARINC app that's kind of an EFB but more of a filing/performance tool than anything else, and of course the company that does all of the above. I think they're the ones who operate the HF radios for overwater operations as well.

ARINC - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
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