cost of overhaul of the 0-300

[Tom-D]

Parts and machining services

$9235.53

That's 6 new cylinders, crank regrind and plated, 11 lifters reworked, 1 new. 12 hydraulic units reworked, 6 rods reworked, cases reworked, cam reground, set of main bearings, new thrust bearings, set of rod bearings, magna flux services, over haul gasket kit, Cadplating services, cleaning chemicals, and shipping.

I know of nothing more needed to put it together.

So anything over about 10k +-, when you get a quote is the shops overhead and profit.

 

[weilke]

So anything over about 10k +-, when you get a quote is the shops overhead and profit.

How many hours of your labor for teardown, assembly and shipping are part of that quote ?

 

[bnt83]

So closer to $12-13k by the time you pay shipping and an A&P to do all the work.

 

[charlie]

What about the cost of overhaul or replacement of the mags, new harness and plugs, rebuilt carburetor, starter, starter clutch -or drive on the "D", repair or replacement of the rotted out sumo, rework of the rods, replacement of any bad gears........?

 

[Geico266]

What about the cost of overhaul or replacement of the mags, new harness and plugs, rebuilt carburetor, starter, starter clutch -or drive on the "D", repair or replacement of the rotted out sumo, rework of the rods, replacement of any bad gears........?

But, if I had a O-300 to over haul I would have Tom do it, that is a fair price for the work quoted.

 

[Fearless Tower]

What about the cost of overhaul or replacement of the mags, new harness and plugs, rebuilt carburetor, starter, starter clutch -or drive on the "D", repair or replacement of the rotted out sumo, rework of the rods, replacement of any bad gears........?

That is all case by case basis....hard for anyone to put a set price on items that may or may not have to be addressed, but obviously those things would drive the price up.

 

[RotorAndWing]

What about the cost of overhaul or replacement of the mags, new harness and plugs, rebuilt carburetor, starter, starter clutch -or drive on the "D", repair or replacement of the rotted out sumo, rework of the rods, replacement of any bad gears........?

I was thinking the same thing.

 

[poadeleted20]

C'mon, guys -- Tom works for free and only charges for parts and outsourced items.

 

[bnt83]

I was thinking the same thing.

+1

Only after you overhaul and replace all the parts including the accessories than an overhaul shop would include, can we compare and look at percived proffit margin.


I'm not seeing the bazillion $ savings on the O-300 A&P field overhaul overhaul yet.

 

[RotorAndWing]

+1

Only after you overhaul and replace all the parts including the accessories than an overhaul shop would include, can we compare and look at percived proffit margin.


I'm not seeing the bazillion $ savings on the O-300 A&P field overhaul overhaul yet.

And here's the other important point to remember. A name overhaul facility will warranty their work.

 

[bnt83]

Price includes fuel system, magnetos, starter, new harness and spark plugs. Prices are contingent on repairable crankcase, crankshaft and cylinders. Subject to applicable airworthiness directives and service bulletins.


300-A,C,D (New Cylinders) $16,492

Parts and machining services

$9235.53

That's 6 new cylinders, crank regrind and plated, 11 lifters reworked, 1 new. 12 hydraulic units reworked, 6 rods reworked, cases reworked, cam reground, set of main bearings, new thrust bearings, set of rod bearings, magna flux services, over haul gasket kit, Cadplating services, cleaning chemicals, and shipping.

I know of nothing more needed to put it together.

So anything over about 10k +-, when you get a quote is the shops overhead and profit.

Add the accessories cost, and the parts that they replace per the service bulletin and see how it measures up. A new slick ignition system is about $2k alone. $500+ carburetor OH, $?$ starter adapter, $?$ starter OH. Their labor is worth something and can do it quicker than many A&P’s can.

 

[Tom-D]

Charley once told me "you get what you pay for, and you pay for what you get."

So if you want new accessories, add them to your total costs.

And Yes this engine is for me, So yes I work for free. other wise I charge $2500.00 for my labor.

The numbers quoted above are for what it stated.

To my engine I will be adding 2 new TCM mags and harness, an alternator upgrade, new controls, plus a Prop overhaul, but those are options I leave to the owner's choice.

 

[bnt83]

Charley once told me "you get what you pay for, and you pay for what you get."

So if you want new accessories, add them to your total costs.

And Yes this engine is for me, So yes I work for free. other wise I charge $2500.00 for my labor.

The numbers quoted above are for what it stated.

To my engine I will be adding 2 new TCM mags and harness, an alternator upgrade, new controls, plus a Prop overhaul, but those are options I leave to the owner's choice.

What are you gonna have in it when your done?

 

[Tom-D]

Price includes fuel system, magnetos, starter, new harness and spark plugs. Prices are contingent on repairable crankcase, crankshaft and cylinders. Subject to applicable airworthiness directives and service bulletins.


300-A,C,D (New Cylinders) $16,492




Add the accessories cost, and the parts that they replace per the service bulletin and see how it measures up. A new slick ignition system is about $2k alone. $500+ carburetor OH, $?$ starter adapter, $?$ starter OH. Their labor is worth something and can do it quicker than many A&P’s can.

When you send me an engine with 2 new mags that have few hours would you like the option of keeping them?

Or would you like to pay a set price that averages all the bad cores on the line in a mass produced engine?

Would you like to know that you got your good low time parts back or ?

 

[Tom-D]

What are you gonna have in it when your done?

I will have an engine that meets all regulations for a rebuilt engine.

 

[bnt83]

I will have an engine that meets all regulations for a rebuilt engine.

I meant $ wise with engine OH, prop OH, contols, mags, harness etc...

I'm just curious because I'm planning on doing all my own work on my dad's plane.

 

[cirrusmx]

how much does a new engine costs?

 

[Tom-D]

I meant $ wise with engine OH, prop OH, contols, mags, harness etc...

I'm just curious because I'm planning on doing all my own work on my dad's plane.

I have not ordered those parts yet, and the prop shop said ABOUT $800 for the prop.

So until the bills are in …..?

 

[Tom-D]

how much does a new engine costs?

You can't buy a new 0-300-D

 

[Tom-D]

And here's the other important point to remember. A name overhaul facility will warranty their work.

How much are you willing to pay for that warranty?

I have been known to drive to Idaho, remove an engine bring it home overhaul it again on my dime and return it and reinstall to make the customer happy, all because the superior cylinders he wanted, were producing metal from their rocker shaft bushings.

 

[Silvaire]

Back in the days when I first started working as a mechanic's helper we used to field overhaul engines, carburetors, mags and just about anything else that came in the door. At that time the airplanes were just simply being maintained, we didn't do complete firewall forward systems or restorations. An old ragwing taildragger would come in, we'd strip the fabric off and recover it without replacing every single clamp, bolt, pulley and spring that happened to be visible.

It seems that nowadays people want everything to be brand spankin' new. The problem is that the new parts being produced are often inferior to the old parts, not to mention there was actually nothing at all wrong with the old part that got tossed in the scrap pile to begin with.

 

[RotorAndWing]

How much are you willing to pay for that warranty?

I have been known to drive to Idaho, remove an engine bring it home overhaul it again on my dime and return it and reinstall to make the customer happy, all because the superior cylinders he wanted, were producing metal from their rocker shaft bushings.

Please post a copy of your work order that outlines your warranty. The big shops have no problem with putting their warranty in writing and standing behind it.

 

[Tom-D]

Please post a copy of your work order that outlines your warranty. The big shops have no problem with putting their warranty in writing and standing behind it.

The big shops need to put it writing, and charge accordingly.

They buy insurance too, and charge accordingly.

With me, you buy the parts, you deal with the parts manufacturer, you have the choice of who you deal with.

And that is why I normally don't deal with the public, Simply because there are too many folks that care more about the warrantee than the quality.

 

[Clark1961]

And here's the other important point to remember. A name overhaul facility will warranty their work.

While in general that may be true, it didn't work out so well for Blanche. The "name" shop kicked and screamed about repairing her cylinders after the overhaul.

 

[RotorAndWing]

While in general that may be true, it didn't work out so well for Blanche. The "name" shop kicked and screamed about repairing her cylinders after the overhaul.

They can kick and scream, but at least you have something in writing that you can fall back on.

 

[RotorAndWing]

And that is why I normally don't deal with the public, Simply because there are too many folks that care more about the warrantee than the quality.

On the one hand you claim to have a business, then on the other hand you explain you don't deal with the public.......

And what you are saying is you would not warranty your work in writing. Says a lot.

 

[N801BH]

On the one hand you claim to have a business, then on the other hand you explain you don't deal with the public.......

And what you are saying is you would not warranty your work in writing. Says a lot.

I am still trying to get over the fact there was EVEN a bill for machining services....

I thought he did EVERYTHING in house..

 

[Tom-D]

They can kick and scream, but at least you have something in writing that you can fall back on.

What's that going to get you? a huge lawyer bill?

 

[Tom-D]

On the one hand you claim to have a business, then on the other hand you explain you don't deal with the public.......

And what you are saying is you would not warranty your work in writing. Says a lot.

It doesn't matter what my customer list looks like you ain't on it.

 

[Silvaire]

And what you are saying is you would not warranty your work in writing. Says a lot.

It does. Have you ever heard of George Fox? He was the founder of the Quakers back around mid 17th century. One of their ethics was to never sign a written contract because in so doing it undermined the spoken word of the man.

It seems they were right because now you cannot take Tom D - an honest and forthright good man - for his word. Not based on him being proven a liar and a criminal, based solely on your own distrust.

Excuse me but last Saturday I kicked the hangar door in an attempt to get the roller back on the track wearing a pair of sneakers. Not a good idea I will now admit. Today the doc removed the toe nail of my right foot big toe.

So go ahead and call me grumpy

 

[Tom-D]

I am still trying to get over the fact there was EVEN a bill for machining services....

I thought he did EVERYTHING in house..

Why would think that Ben? Did you really believe I did EVERY thing in House?

You apparently have forgotten what the discussion was about, and now are simply jumping the bandwagon trying to me look bad.

Which is simply a reflection on you not me.

 

[Tom-D]

It does. Have you ever heard of George Fox? He was the founder of the Quakers back around mid 17th century. One of their ethics was to never sign a written contract because in so doing it undermined the spoken word of the man.

It seems they were right because now you cannot take Tom D - an honest and forthright good man - for his word. Not based on him being proven a liar and a criminal, based solely on your own distrust.

Excuse me but last Saturday I kicked the hangar door in an attempt to get the roller back on the track wearing a pair of sneakers. Not a good idea I will now admit. Today the doc removed the toe nail of my right foot big toe.

So go ahead and call me grumpy

Thank you for that.

sorry about your toe.

But you see they are cheap people taking cheap shots to make them selves feel good.

 

[Clark1961]

Today the doc removed the toe nail of my right foot big toe.

Ouch! Don't do that! ( don't kick things that are stouter than flesh - I used to do it a lot but also had steel toed footwear).

 

[Silvaire]

I've got steel toed shoes too but that day I wasn't wearing them and the darn thing ran off the track so there were three of us, two guys grunting and prying and Dan said "Kick it" so I did.

Should have trimmed my toenail that morning.

Anyway, it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. They numb it up like the dentist and as long as you don't watch you won't pass out

 

[Clark1961]

I've got steel toed shoes too but that day I wasn't wearing them and the darn thing ran off the track so there were three of us, two guys grunting and prying and Dan said "Kick it" so I did.

Didja roll around on the ground after kicking it? Ouch. Maybe don't listen to Dan too much.

Maybe it's like the karate instructor sez: after you do it wrong once the toes, fingers, etc learn to stay out of the way...

 

[Silvaire]

Ha Ha, you know I really didn't even know about it until I took my sock off that night to take a shower and

HOLY MOTHER OF GOD!

It was just the looks of the thing more than any pain I felt that freaked me out.

 

[KeithASanford]

I'm new to this stuff and I'm not exactly sure how this all works, but I thought there was some sort of FAA required "final sign off" by the A & P after a power plant overhaul. If problems occur with the power plant that can't be attributed to anyone else, isn't the A & P liable? Wouldn't that serve as adequate protection or is the liability only in the case of an accident or incident?

I've got steel toed shoes too but that day I wasn't wearing them and the darn thing ran off the track so there were three of us, two guys grunting and prying and Dan said "Kick it" so I did.

Next time, turn around and kick it with the bottom of your foot. Broader contact surface, protected by the sole, the thickest part of any shoe and extremities are clear.

 

[1600vw]

I watched a webinar on the subject of overhaul, rebuild, and it seemed there was another but I do not remember.

Overhaul means the shop will take your engine apart, check all parts to see if they still fall within the limits to reuse, then replace what did not make the list. From what I learned some of those parts could be right at the limit of being worn out but still usable.

Rebuilt means the parts are replaced even if they still fall within the bounderies of being usable.

I did not learn everything needed to know about this subject but what I did learn is you better be sure you know what you are asking for and understand what you get when you ask for a certain job to be done.

Some believe overhaul means all parts are new, that is not the case.

Fly Smart

 

[bnt83]

I watched a webinar on the subject of overhaul, rebuild, and it seemed there was another but I do not remember.

Overhaul means the shop will take your engine apart, check all parts to see if they still fall within the limits to reuse, then replace what did not make the list. From what I learned some of those parts could be right at the limit of being worn out but still usable.

Rebuilt means the parts are replaced even if they still fall within the bounderies of being usable.

I did not learn everything needed to know about this subject but what I did learn is you better be sure you know what you are asking for and understand what you get when you ask for a certain job to be done.

Some believe overhaul means all parts are new, that is not the case.

Fly Smart

Almost. It's all a marketing game.

Overhauled - contains used parts that are at serviceable limits.

Overhauled to new limits - very similar to a factory rebuilt engine except the total time clock is not reset and the engine still has a history and old logbooks.

Rebuilt - Can only be performed by the OEM. Can also contain used parts as long as they meet new limits. ONLY the OEM can issue new logbooks and "zero time" the engine.

Factory New - Should not contain any used parts.

Remanufactured - doesn't have an official definition by the FAA and can mean whatever the manufacture wants, usually overhauled.

Only​

​

​

​

manufacturers are authorized
to rebuild an item, and even
then, Part 43 limits that activity to
items actually produced by the manufacturer
in question. Under 14 C.F.R.
section 43.3(j), a manufacturer may:​

(1) Rebuild or alter any aircraft,
aircraft engine, propeller,
or appliance manufactured
by him under a type
or production certificate;​

​

​

​

​

or​

(2) Rebuild or alter any appliance
or part of aircraft,
aircraft engines, propellers,
or appliances manufactured
by him under a Technical
Standard Order Authorization,
an FAA-Parts Manufacturer
Approval, or Product
and Process Specification​

issued by the Administrator.

 

[1600vw]

Almost. It's all a marketing game.

Overhauled - contains used parts that are at serviceable limits.

Overhauled to new limits - very similar to a factory rebuilt engine except the total time clock is not reset and the engine still has a history and old logbooks.

Rebuilt - Can only be performed by the OEM. Can also contain used parts as long as they meet new limits. ONLY the OEM can issue new logbooks and "zero time" the engine.

Factory New - Should not contain any used parts.

Remanufactured - doesn't have an official definition by the FAA and can mean whatever the manufacture wants, usually overhauled.




Only

manufacturers are authorized

to rebuild an item, and even
then, Part 43 limits that activity to
items actually produced by the manufacturer
in question. Under 14 C.F.R.
section 43.3(j), a manufacturer may:
​

​

(1) Rebuild or alter any aircraft,
aircraft engine, propeller,
or appliance manufactured
by him under a type
or production certificate; ​

​

or

​

​

(2) Rebuild or alter any appliance
or part of aircraft,
aircraft engines, propellers,
or appliances manufactured
by him under a Technical
Standard Order Authorization,
an FAA-Parts Manufacturer
Approval, or Product
and Process Specification​

issued by the Administrator.
​

Thanks for posting this. I bet a lot of folks did not know this. Those that do and repair your engine without telling someone about these guidelines....


​