Cost of operations/ownership at cycle end.

Henning

Henning

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Gone West
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iHenning
Case sample, 1960 Cessna 310D, 3 years ownership, 122hrs flown.

So, here I sit with the box of papers I have left over, which includes every receipt on everything I spent, so before I throw it away, I thought I'd see what reality was.

Cost of purchase: $32,000
Cost of panel and a first round on the engines getting them in tune at Aviation classics, $44,854.38
Fuel receipts totaling $15,768.50
Insurance totals $3742
Annuals and other maint/upgrades/repairs totals $9,386.72
Hangar storage totaling $6000.

Total costs $111,751.60
Return at cycle end $70,000
Total cost of ownership cycle $41,751
Total cost per hour $342.23
 
Ouch! And you were in a sweet spot. The plane was set up nicely and ready to be flown for years with low incremental costs that would have brought that average down.
 
Kiddo's Driver said:
Ouch! And you were in a sweet spot. The plane was set up nicely and ready to be flown for years with low incremental costs that would have brought that average down.
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Yep, not worried, the cost didn't hurt a bit, I had a lot of fun in her and went on some cool trips. Who else gets to land at Stead during race week?:wink2: Took my friends daughter for her first plane ride on a Bay tour in SF. Camped at OSH, Visited friends across the country, flew into Patrick AFB and got VIP for a the second to last shuttle launch for bringing 4 employer/VIPs up with me for the General running the ESGR program. I flew her 25' over the water from Daytona to N of Charleston SC to stay under and away from the worts of the weather blocking my path to OSH. Popping over some peninsula with a golf course and passing along coastal ships, fishing, and sailing boats. On the way back I had to get under another line that crossed Florida Cape Canaveral to Tampa, I could see where my path through was just at the Atlantic shore, off shore there was no rain, and the clouds had no energy yet, they get that from the inshore heating and convection. As I was looking at the G-500 to see how to pick my way through the airspace at the Cape, ATC comes on, "9SA The airspace is yours,mount may ignore all airspace restrictions. There is no one else flying in the state of Florida at this time, you are free to find the best path though." "Roger thank you, I am 25' over the ICW fat dumb and happy crossing to offshore ahead following the sunshine I'm looking at with a clear and unlimited vis, looks like 20 miles to the clear on the other side."
I took a few other people for rides, Bob Grosse, the guy who adopted me as a little brother when I was 11, a HS buddy.

Lots of good times, lots of good memories, that's what money is about. If you worry about money, you will always have money worries. If you quit worrying about money, you will always have enough.

Time for that chapter to close and the next to open.
 
I figure 310s cost per hour on average $300-500, depending on year, de-ice, turbos, LOP vs not, etc. So I'd say that your costs are what I'd expect to see.
 
Did you decide on what you are getting into next? Another 310 or something different this time?
 
Grumman goose. There's one right here in maryland for half a mill. It was designed for people with big dough to Land at Wall Street. Go for it! Money should not worry henning.
 
Why would any sane person actually want to know how much they spend on their flying habit?

Nothing beneficial can come out of that information. :nono:
 
Jeff Oslick said:
Why would any sane person actually want to know how much they spend on their flying habit?

Nothing beneficial can come out of that information. :nono:
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Definitely rule #1 here! :D


Seriously, too bad you couldn't divide the $45k upgrade/catchup expense over another 400-500 hours. That would've made those numbers pretty darn nice and reasonable.
 
Damn!

That panel upgrade really changed the numbers around.

Did your annuals average 3k or did you have one bad/big annual?
 
James331 said:
Damn!

That panel upgrade really changed the numbers around.

Did your annuals average 3k or did you have one bad/big annual?
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The annual was $2500, it didn't need anything besides normal service to pass, but I did the crank and injector seals last time because they had dried out sitting for 12 years in AZ and needed to be replaced. All known issues at purchase and I had planned to do from the beginning.

One thing Av Shilo spoiled me on was top end avionics giving me IPCs ever 6mths while doing all the different panel iterations, I realized that there was no way I wanted to be flying without that level of situational awareness..

The panel gave me the capabilities of a $1.5MM new Baron.
 
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Jeff Oslick said:
Why would any sane person actually want to know how much they spend on their flying habit?

Nothing beneficial can come out of that information. :nono:
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Sure it did, you now have a real data point. I didn't and still don't care what it cost, to me it was time well spent, and that is the only thing of value in life. I just remembered Wayne was always on about 'full cycle cost', so since I had the full cycle cost in front of me, I figured I'd see what it was.
 
After my first or craft purchase,I kept the running total of all costs. After two years ,gave up on that. It is what it is. Just fly the airplane and enjoy it,you can't take it with you.
 
Henning said:
The annual was $2500, it didn't need anything besides normal service to pass, but I did the crank and injector seals last time because they had dried out sitting for 12 years in AZ and needed to be replaced. All known issues at purchase and I had planned to do from the beginning.

One thing Av Shilo spoiled me on was top end avionics giving me IPCs ever 6mths while doing all the different panel iterations, I realized that there was no way I wanted to be flying without that level of situational awareness..

The panel gave me the capabilities of a $1.5MM new Baron.
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You need glass to have situational awareness?

Way capabilities did you gain from glass that a GNS430W and steam gauges couldn't have given you?
 
You should have flown it more than 122 hours in 3 years though!

;)
 
Art VanDelay said:
Okay,I just spent a week on one near downtown London. I can see the allure.
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I've been living on boats going on 30 years now, I really can't think of a way I'd rather live. The question is how to best go about it this time. It's easiest to just buy a boat with a spot on the canal (canal tie ups are free, first come, first serve, you just buy an annual €50 permit from the city). That doesn't get me the boat I want though right now which I have to build out and reshape the hull. The trick is finding a canal spot.

Either that or I take a room in a brothel.;)
 
frfly172 said:
After my first or craft purchase,I kept the running total of all costs. After two years ,gave up on that. It is what it is. Just fly the airplane and enjoy it,you can't take it with you.
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Exactly, it's inconsequential what it costs. "Do I have the money?" "Yes" "Woo Hoo"
 
dans2992 said:
You should have flown it more than 122 hours in 3 years though!

;)
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Yes, I had planned to when I bought, but life changes with time. If I had flown it as much as I wanted my incremental fixed cost would have been cut considerably. If I was flying the 150hrs a year I had planned, rough mental math put me on a track for just under $250hr.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
BOA (BoatersOfAmerica.com) is for sale
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Why bother when we have great success talking about boats here? If we started BOA a bunch of people would come over arguing about PWC vs sailboats and inboards vs outboards. Or, worse, they'd want to talk about airplanes! :eek:

Here we can talk about boats without those distractions. :D
 
Then you would have to deal with threads like this:

I was thinking about becoming a professional boat captain. Is it worth it? Acme Boat School wants a bunch of money up front, is it a good deal? And on and on and on...............:no::rolleyes::rofl:




Ted DuPuis said:
Why bother when we have great success talking about boats here? If we started BOA a bunch of people would come over arguing about PWC vs sailboats and inboards vs outboards. Or, worse, they'd want to talk about airplanes! :eek:

Here we can talk about boats without those distractions. :D
Click to expand...
 
jonnyjetprop said:
Then you would have to deal with threads like this:

I was thinking about becoming a professional boat captain. Is it worth it? Acme Boat School wants a bunch of money up front, is it a good deal? And on and on and on...............:no::rolleyes::rofl:
Click to expand...

Even the most expensive classes are like $1400, and your starting pay is around $70k... But you do need to do 3 year "apprenticeship".
 
Henning said:
Even the most expensive classes are like $1400, and your starting pay is around $70k... But you do need to do 3 year "apprenticeship".
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Hopefully goes better than the three hour "tour." :lol:
 
Henning said:
Case sample, 1960 Cessna 310D, 3 years ownership, 122hrs flown.

So, here I sit with the box of papers I have left over, which includes every receipt on everything I spent, so before I throw it away, I thought I'd see what reality was.

Cost of purchase: $32,000
Cost of panel and a first round on the engines getting them in tune at Aviation classics, $44,854.38
Fuel receipts totaling $15,768.50
Insurance totals $3742
Annuals and other maint/upgrades/repairs totals $9,386.72
Hangar storage totaling $6000.

Total costs $111,751.60
Return at cycle end $70,000
Total cost of ownership cycle $41,751
Total cost per hour $342.23
Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing this, Henning. I think the big takeaway lesson for any pilot considering their own aircraft is that the cost of acquisition is only one piece of the puzzle, and not even a dominating one at that. Your cost to acquire was ~25% of your total costs of ownership over 3 years.

Am I looking at it the right way, or perhaps the engines were part of your acquisition plan, like buying a runout and managing the OH?
 
DJTorrente said:
Thanks for sharing this, Henning. I think the big takeaway lesson for any pilot considering their own aircraft is that the cost of acquisition is only one piece of the puzzle, and not even a dominating one at that. Your cost to acquire was ~25% of your total costs of ownership over 3 years.

Am I looking at it the right way, or perhaps the engines were part of your acquisition plan, like buying a runout and managing the OH?
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My situation changed and I did not fly it as much as I had intended which was closer to 100hrs a year. The engines would have lasted me 20 years, they were very low time with new props.

My cost to acquire is actually much higher. The $44,854 is on there as well, that was part of acquiring the airplane I wanted, so figure closer to $75k was acquisition cost which is more than 2/3rds of total gross costs, but since only $5000 was unrealized return, it was about 12% of the net costs.
 
Many use the cost to acquire vs cost of owning as an argument for spending more on an airplane. This works in some cases, especially if you can deduct the depreciation, but that still results in a high capital investment. If you can say your operating costs will truly be lower with the higher expenditure, it might make sense, but I think that will rarely be true. Insurance is higher for a more expensive plane (hull cost is a % of value), and all of these things are old and breaking.

It also depends on the plane. If you're considering a 310, the Rs have real advantages. If looking at a 421, Cs are the most popular, but a B will represent $100k on average of capital savings that you can invest or put towards the repairs/upgrades that you'll likely need to do on either.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Many use the cost to acquire vs cost of owning as an argument for spending more on an airplane. This works in some cases, especially if you can deduct the depreciation, but that still results in a high capital investment. If you can say your operating costs will truly be lower with the higher expenditure, it might make sense, but I think that will rarely be true. Insurance is higher for a more expensive plane (hull cost is a % of value), and all of these things are old and breaking.

It also depends on the plane. If you're considering a 310, the Rs have real advantages. If looking at a 421, Cs are the most popular, but a B will represent $100k on average of capital savings that you can invest or put towards the repairs/upgrades that you'll likely need to do on either.
Click to expand...

Hmm, I didn't really think of it in that manner, but then I don't try to justify the money I spend in terms of financial return. I just don't count upgrades, especially those 'required' at time of purchase to be operating expense. Whether it is or isn't is pretty irrelevant though.:lol:
 
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