Cop killer in L.A. has had flight training

pericynthion said:
Theoretically *this* sort of TFR isn't because they think that some GA dude could be a threat, it's just for air safety since there is already a large concentration of helicopter/etc activity and they don't want the density to be further increased by gawkers and news crews. Thus the occasional inadvertent penetration by someone who genuinely didn't (and couldn't) know shouldn't be a big deal, especially since they're likely to be through and outta there rather than hanging around and getting in the way. I expect the result would be / should be a possible slap on the wrist and that's it. Of course, with the LAPD involved, all bets are off and maybe you'd be shot down with a SAM, then beaten with clubs.
This is kinda close to home for me as this time yesterday I was in fact VFR on a 3 hour XC, in the general vicinity.
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The TFR was put in place to keep the media out.
 
livitup said:
Obligatory stupid student pilot question... If one were flying a nice, long XC, VFR, and wasn't using FF, how would one know about this? Do they announce it on center frequencies? If one legitimately didn't know about it because it popped up after the pilot launched, what would happen if he busted it?

Granted the dozen helicopters orbiting would be a good first clue, but still...
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In a wings program a few years back I asked the question " If I am on flight following and a pop up TFR shows up, will you inform me of it"... Their answer was NO, we only inform IFR traffic.. You need to gather that information someplace else....:eek::mad:....
 
livitup said:
Obligatory stupid student pilot question... If one were flying a nice, long XC, VFR, and wasn't using FF, how would one know about this? Do they announce it on center frequencies? If one legitimately didn't know about it because it popped up after the pilot launched, what would happen if he busted it?

Granted the dozen helicopters orbiting would be a good first clue, but still...
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One wouldn't provided it was a pop up after your briefing. They do not typically announce a pop up on any freq, but it's possible I suppose. You cannot bust a TFR you were not briefed on. If you were 'investigated' the answer would be very simple, and IAW the regs: "I got a brief covering all info relevant to the flight, I conducted the flight, and the situation changed during my flight." Job done. No more, no less.
 
wickedsprint said:
At least ten years ago the navy was requiring some pilot candidates to attend ga flight school for 25hrs of training to include solo flight before going to API.
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I really like that the LSM is ignoring this story; I see it as just another nail in their coffin. On the Internet, however, you find things like this:

"I've known Chris Dorner since 1997 while we were at college together at Southern Utah University. Upon graduation from college I headed off to prepare for Marine OCS. He had aspirations to do the same. While as a poolie awaiting to go he had trouble meeting the PFT requirements (specifically the 3 mile run) the OSO basically told him to go away and try again when you can meet the requirements. I left for Marine OCS and after TBS. During this time I learned he had gone to Navy OCS. He was at Navy OCS while I was in Pensacola for API (Pre flight training). We reconnected there and became very close and looked forward to our military careers. He subsequently upon OCS graduation attended API as well. I talked him into coming out to Vance AFB in Enid, Ok with me to go fly the T-37. I was excited to have a friend go attend flight school with me. He was a couple of classes behind me so I felt I could assist him with lessons I learned. Well....Flight School quickly became too much for him. He had trouble with air sickness, he was always unprepared and was way behind the airplane. He was failing tests academically. Ultimately he washed out of flight training. In his opinion this wasn't his fault and it was the instructors who had it out for him. When he tried to pull that card I called BS on it and pointed to his lack of studying and preparation. Told him maybe he should play less video games and other extra curricular activities. Thats when he became upset with me, feeling I had turned my back on him. He then made allegations against me that threatened my completing flight training. That was unsubstantiated and obviously I completed and continued on with my career. This is where I saw his vengeful side. Here is the underlying thing with Dorner and what may have lead to this extreme lashing out. Everything he had tried to accomplish he has failed. Marines..Failed, Navy..Flight School...Failed. LAPD ....Failed. That was the straw that broke the camels back. He always was a troubled individual....and really this doesn't surprise me one bit. He is just out trying to make a name for himself. Just can't believe things got this bad for him, but he has a history. I have a lot more dirt, but Ill leave it with this wall of text. Hes a nutjob and its sad it had to come to this."

Source: U.S. Navy releases records of triple shooting suspect Christopher Dorner
 
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N801BH said:
In a wings program a few years back I asked the question " If I am on flight following and a pop up TFR shows up, will you inform me of it"... Their answer was NO, we only inform IFR traffic.. You need to gather that information someplace else....:eek::mad:....
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There's a comforting thought.
 
docmirror said:
Pretty much all the comments on the news articles are universally NOT afraid of Dorner, but are universally afraid of the LAPD, sheriffs, etc.
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I am not anti LEO....I have dozen family members all NYPD. But LAPD has a bit of a reputation as rednecks and it hasn't gotten better since Rodney King, sorry to say. hell I am afraid to ride with a black guy in the car with me when out in California. I didn't feel that way when I was in Alabama in the 70's.
 
LearDriver said:
It seems the TFR was just to keep anyone from filming a Rodney King type video. Its such a pain to try and get business done when there are prying eyes round.
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The TFR is really dual purpose - it keeps the riff-raff from getting in and filming their own videos, but it is also a safety of flight thing to keep the gawkers from mixing it up with the LE aircraft that are swarming. With the TFR , they can control and limit legitimate media access and have plenty of airspace to do their job. Not unlike an aerial fire-fighting TFR.
 
Fearless Tower said:
The TFR is really dual purpose - it keeps the riff-raff from getting in and filming their own videos, but it is also a safety of flight thing to keep the gawkers from mixing it up with the LE aircraft that are swarming. With the TFR , they can control and limit legitimate media access and have plenty of airspace to do their job. Not unlike an aerial fire-fighting TFR.
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That too..........................

But............ The potential for "sanitiziing" their operation is still a factor one needs to consider...IMHO..
 
Fearless Tower said:
The TFR is really dual purpose - it keeps the riff-raff from getting in and filming their own videos, but it is also a safety of flight thing to keep the gawkers from mixing it up with the LE aircraft that are swarming. With the TFR , they can control and limit legitimate media access and have plenty of airspace to do their job. Not unlike an aerial fire-fighting TFR.
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LearDriver said:
It seems the TFR was just to keep anyone from filming a Rodney King type video. Its such a pain to try and get business done when there are prying eyes around.
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Not to mention the press reported he has a Barrett .50 Cal sniper rifle with him. :eek:
 
This might be off subject but....

I was recoverying from a broken back and wanted something to do. So I grab my little, I mean Little, Foam airplane that weighs around 6 grams, not much bigger then a cup of coffee. It was a really nice spring day no wind and I head outside.
I go across the street from my home and sit on the sidwalk curb and fly my little airplane in a parking lot.
This parking lot was a for a strip mall. As I sit thier all off a sudden atleast 7 cop cars come speeding up and I am surrounded. I thought I was going to get beat and stuffed into one of those cars.
I was told they had a complaint about someone flying a plane in a parking lot. I hold up my little plane that is made of foam and wieghs no more then a credit card, and say, you are going to arrest me for flying this?
When they finely let me go, after telling me I can never come back on that property, I went home, put my little plane on a coffee cup and took some pics and e-mailed them to the sheriff.
I told him I worry about getting attacked by gangs when I am out doing stuff like this and today I was attacked by a gang and it was the gang in blue.
I moved out of town.
 
Tony_Scarpelli said:
I am not anti LEO....I have dozen family members all NYPD. But LAPD has a bit of a reputation as rednecks and it hasn't gotten better since Rodney King, sorry to say. hell I am afraid to ride with a black guy in the car with me when out in California. I didn't feel that way when I was in Alabama in the 70's.
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I get that. People tend to broad brush law enforcement... either it's all good or all bad... or tend to blame negative incidents on 'rogue' elements.

My experience as an occasional victim is that law enforcement organizations have different cultures. The good ones fall under some version of 'professionalism' and the bad ones, well, are something other than professional. For example, the NYPD's current aggressiveness disturbs me a bit but the overall culture is professional, they have a plan, and by many accounts it's pretty effective.

I'm the guy you may not want to ride with in some places but my only option when alone is to go somewhere else. I remember driving an office friend home in NJ. We stopped at a light and I saw a police car on another street. I told him, "get your ID out, we're getting stopped". He was surprised when we were stopped a few blocks later. We didn't need IDs as soon as he said he lived in Chatham. It was just the local police keeping people like me out. I haven't experienced LAPD but there are some other CA orgs who've done me a few times. So many stories...
 
Tony_Scarpelli said:
I am not anti LEO....I have dozen family members all NYPD. But LAPD has a bit of a reputation as rednecks and it hasn't gotten better since Rodney King, sorry to say. hell I am afraid to ride with a black guy in the car with me when out in California. I didn't feel that way when I was in Alabama in the 70's.
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I just want to know when it became ok to burn down a house with someone in it in order to capture them, when the house is completely surrounded and there is no one else in there? :yikes:

We have given the duties of executioner now to the police? Just because he is a bad guy assh*le cop killer does not mean he gets the death penalty from the cops . . .

This just sounds so Ruby Ridge and Waco to me . . .. some of you law and order types might want to read this story - I was listening to KCAL being streamed when this happened - and heard it with my own ears -

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/02/...=e4ae1214b8-2_13_132_13_2013&utm_medium=email
 
the lapd murders again, no one cares. America is dead.
 
I suppose you could make an argument about meeting deadly force with deadly force.

Does stink more than a little though
 
Welcome to the United Police State of America.

If it's okay for the President it should be okay for the police.
 
I've heard that there is some evidence that Dorner tried to submit out the back door of the building but was shoved back in...

Something just doesn't feel right here.
 
SkyHog said:
I've heard that there is some evidence that Dorner tried to submit out the back door of the building but was shoved back in...

Something just doesn't feel right here.
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The word was pushed, used in the same context as driven or forced. You can turn off the spidy sence on THAT detail
 
Skylane81E said:
The word was pushed, used in the same context as driven or forced. You can turn off the spidy sence on THAT detail
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Even if he was driven back in, and not physically shoved, what makes that ok? Police officers should not have been dispatching a cornered suspect. He had not been convicted yet. Their duty is to make sure he stands trial for his crimes.
 
Listen to the audio, it was premeditated murder and conspiracy to murder. Nothing will come of it.
 
You mean to say that the should not return fire?

Every account we have at this point is he was taking shots at them at every opportunity, why should his exit out the back be considered to be different? His training would have been to exit the structure while laying down suppressive fire.

Not aimed at the post immediately above that was posted while I was typing:wink2:
 
Skylane81E said:
You mean to say that the should not return fire?

Every account we have at this point is he was taking shots at them at every opportunity, why should his exit out the back be considered to be different? His training would have been to exit the structure while laying down suppressive fire.

Not aimed at the post immediately above that was posted while I was typing:wink2:
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Well, they shouldn't have lit the structure on fire to begin with. Once they did, it should have become a rescue operation, since he was now cornered.

Bit conveniently, no one needs to answer for the crimes committed against Dorner.
 
SkyHog said:
Well, they shouldn't have lit the structure on fire to begin with. Once they did, it should have become a rescue operation, since he was now cornered.

Bit conveniently, no one needs to answer for the crimes committed against Dorner.
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The pushed back in episode happened before the fire, by a large margin.

They were discussing it on CNN before we even knew the deputy had died.
 
Also note I am not debating the fire, like I said, it "stinks" given the current evidence that WE have
 
Well let's put a little spin on this - They only stop looking for you if they think you're dead. So what if Dormer staged a body and started the fire himself ?
 
They are now denying the pushed back in story, which originated from the police saying that is what they did. They should have kept him in the cabin longer and built coliseum seating around it then sold tickets to the burning.
 
us AAirways said:
How do we know Dorner didn't start the fire?
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Because there is a bunch of audio recordings of the police saying they launched burners into the structure and it is on fire according to plan. Conspiracy to murder and murder 1. But that is just another day for the lapd. Troops overseas at war aren't allowed to use fire, our gov saves the specially nasty way to die for its citizens. Yay america. Yay to us for not caring.
 
ClimbnSink said:
Because there is a bunch of audio recordings of the police saying they launched burners into the structure and it is on fire according to plan. Conspiracy to murder and murder 1. But that is just another day for the lapd. Troops overseas at war aren't allowed to use fire, our gov saves the specially nasty way to die for its citizens. Yay america. Yay to us for not caring.
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If you do not mind, could you post the link to a recording...thank you
 
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