Contact Departure or Approach

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Ravioli

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Question from another board but I know there are controller types here...

Someone got corrected for signing on with Approach, propspinner 12345, etc. and the controller said he was Departure... the freqs for Approach and Departure were the same so he was speaking to the correct biological unit.

I rationalized it as, if two freqs listed, use the one for your stage of flight, but when the freqs are the same it is ALWAYS departure.

Because:

When leaving a towered airport they always tell you to contact departure (even when the freqs are the same) and that makes sense. When you switch from Departure you go to Center (also makes sense).

Now on arrival (same place or another) Center will tell you to contact departure xxx.xx. Why? I'm arriving? BUT... who are they talking with all shift long? Probably DEPARTURE...

Is there a rule or guideline that applies to this?

Thanks!
 
rolivi said:
Question from another board but I know there are controller types here...

Someone got corrected for signing on with Approach, propspinner 12345, etc. and the controller said he was Departure... the freqs for Approach and Departure were the same so he was speaking to the correct biological unit.
Click to expand...

That's a common situation; same biological unit, same scope, same transceivers, etc.

I rationalized it as, if two freqs listed, use the one for your stage of flight, but when the freqs are the same it is ALWAYS departure.

Because:

When leaving a towered airport they always tell you to contact departure (even when the freqs are the same) and that makes sense. When you switch from Departure you go to Center (also makes sense).

Now on arrival (same place or another) Center will tell you to contact departure xxx.xx. Why? I'm arriving? BUT... who are they talking with all shift long? Probably DEPARTURE...
Click to expand...
What Center tells you to contact departure when you're arriving? When one controller is handling approach and departure the norm is to contact approach when you're inbound to the field and departure when you're outbound. When you're just passing through the norm is to contact approach because these are generically known as approach control facilities.
 
roncachamp said:
What Center tells you to contact departure when you're arriving?
Click to expand...

Fort Worth Center says DEPARTURE almost all of the time. The only difference is 135.97 (south) or 118.1 (north).

Destination airport is usually KFTW or T67
 
Yeah I don't think it really matters. As long as you establish communication, whether he's "departure" or "approach" to me doesn't matter. A lot of times on hand offs if the approach or departure facility is an unfamiliar name I'm not familiar with, rather than wing it and say the wrong name, I'll just say "propspinner 12345, checkin' in at 6,000" and ATC will respond.
 
rolivi said:
Fort Worth Center says DEPARTURE almost all of the time. The only difference is 135.97 (south) or 118.1 (north).



Destination airport is usually KFTW or T67
Click to expand...


"Regional, Cessna 12345, three thousand five hundred information bravo"
They LIKE to be called regional it seems.

And yes the approach/departure thing can be confusing. I have had it both ways, approach when leaving the airport, departure when arriving.... Even ifr. I really think it has something to do with the flow at DFW that particular day.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
KyleT said:
"Regional, Cessna 12345, three thousand five hundred information bravo"
They LIKE to be called regional it seems.
Click to expand...

I fly in the Los Angeles basin 2 or 3 times a year and I call EVERYONE there SOCAL... never been corrected.
 
I use "Approach..." for any situation except an actual departure and even then if the airport I took off from wasn't the primary airport for the Class B I sometimes use Approach and I've never heard anyone complain either way.

If you ever run into a TRACON controller who gets his panties in a wad over being called departure vs approach you're probably gonna be in trouble unless you say TREE, FIFE, and NINER along with a dozen other minor gotchas. Personally I wouldn't sweat it and worry about more important things like not missing a call.
 
Maybe because normally everyone wants to depart Cowtown and nobody wants to arrive? :D
 
KyleT said:
"Regional, Cessna 12345, three thousand five hundred information bravo"
They LIKE to be called regional it seems.
Click to expand...
The TRACON in the DFW area is called "Regional Departure/Approach".

KyleT said:
And yes the approach/departure thing can be confusing. I have had it both ways, approach when leaving the airport, departure when arriving.... Even ifr. I really think it has something to do with the flow at DFW that particular day.
Click to expand...
I've long since come to the conclusion that there is no logic behind whether they call themselves "departure" or "approach" so I use either.
 
I use approach inbound, departure outbound. Sometimes the controller calls himself the other, in which case future communications with him then I defer. It doesn't matter as far as I know.
 
I have had controllers answer as so-and-so "departure" if I referred to them as "approach" when departing, but I've never had any of them tell me I was doing it wrong. Once I figured it out, I started calling them "departure" when I'm departing.
 
rolivi said:
Question from another board but I know there are controller types here...

Someone got corrected for signing on with Approach, propspinner 12345, etc. and the controller said he was Departure... the freqs for Approach and Departure were the same so he was speaking to the correct biological unit.

I rationalized it as, if two freqs listed, use the one for your stage of flight, but when the freqs are the same it is ALWAYS departure.

Because:

When leaving a towered airport they always tell you to contact departure (even when the freqs are the same) and that makes sense. When you switch from Departure you go to Center (also makes sense).

Now on arrival (same place or another) Center will tell you to contact departure xxx.xx. Why? I'm arriving? BUT... who are they talking with all shift long? Probably DEPARTURE...

Is there a rule or guideline that applies to this?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

It makes no difference saying 'departure' or 'approach' if the same frequency is given by the tower on departure. But since you are departing, call them departure. As long as you get 'radar contact' (and not silence) you are good to go...
 
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If you're leaving it's departure. Otherwise it's approach.

This discussion reminds me of an old skit (the version that comes to mind is the president is getting briefed in preparation of meeting the prime minister of Israel):

BRIEFER: In Hebrew the word for "hello" is "shalom."
PRESIDENT: Ok.
BRIEFER: And the word for "good bye" is "shalom."
PRESIDENT: How do I know which one I said?
BRIEFER: If she leaves after you said it, you've said good bye.
 
Departure is appropriate only when you are departing (duh). You are talking to a Terminal Radar APPROACH Control...other than that it is just seat assignment.

The controller referred to in the OP is an anomaly.

Bob Gardner
 
Everskyward said:
The TRACON in the DFW area is called "Regional Departure/Approach".



I've long since come to the conclusion that there is no logic behind whether they call themselves "departure" or "approach" so I use either.
Click to expand...


Yes forgot to mention DFW.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Use whichever they tell me to contact,let the controller giving you the handoff figure it out.
 
Kinda makes you wonder why we even bother with the distinction. Many other countries replace "approach" and "departure" with words like "radar" or "terminal control".

I always use approach unless I just departed from the primary airport. If a controller berates me for incorrect usage, I will simply ignore then. Eventually I'll get handed off.
 
I generally use whatever the term the tower gives me when I leave (meaning "Departure" when I'm outbound Charlie). All other times, I use "Approach"
No one has said otherwise.
When leaving Delta, I've always been advised to, "Contact Approach on 123.9" so I always call them "Approach"
And Center has always referred to them as "Approach" when I access their area, so ....
 
On my recent trip across the country and back I talked to over 125 controllers, some of them center, but more of them were "approach". The only time I was told to contact departure was after takeoff, and often they answered "xxxx approach, radar contact..."

At home I talk to SoCal Approach almost daily, and often the tower will instruct to "contact departure" and they will answer as such, but will also answer as approach 2 seconds later when someone else calls them enroute. As far as I can tell the words are pretty much interchangeable, and generally if they respond with one or the other that's what I use.
 
Interesting discussion. Now i think about it, i never use either departure nor approach. They know i am departing or arriving by what i say/doing.
Frequency usually the same.
No controller ever corrected me or asked to be called either.
IE: "Atlanta, bugmasher 1234x runway heading passing 1500 for 3000".
OR after hand off: "Good morning Atlanta, bugmasher 1234x desending out of 5000 for 3".
Maybe i do it wrong. I dont know. :confused:
 
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Just call everyone "radio." Thenot you've adequately passed off everyone
 
SkyHog said:
Just call everyone "radio." Thenot you've adequately passed off everyone
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Controllers would not appreciate that lol

If I just took off I say departure so that they know I just departed or whatever, it doesn't hurt. But the rest of the time I say approach. If the controller gets snippy with you they just need to switch to decaf and relax a little. The pilot has no way of knowing if the facility has divided the positions or not.
 
LT4247 said:
Interesting discussion. Now i think about it, i never use either departure nor approach. They know i am departing or arriving by what i say/doing.
Frequency usually the same.
No controller ever corrected me or asked to be called either.
IE: "Atlanta, bugmasher 1234x runway heading passing 1500 for 3000".
OR after hand off: "Good morning Atlanta, bugmasher 1234x desending out of 5000 for 3".
Maybe i do it wrong. I dont know.


You can't do it wrong....there are no regulations regarding phraseology by pilots. AIM 4-2-1(b) gives pilots the green light.

Bob Gardner
Click to expand...
 
Shooting approaches at a minor class D (Modesto) yesterday, I got told to contact Departure at every missed approach. I just called them NorCal....
 
They get less testy about approach-departure confusion than when you call Center "Approach."
 
LT4247 said:
Interesting discussion. Now i think about it, i never use either departure nor approach. They know i am departing or arriving by what i say/doing.
Frequency usually the same.
No controller ever corrected me or asked to be called either.
IE: "Atlanta, bugmasher 1234x runway heading passing 1500 for 3000".
OR after hand off: "Good morning Atlanta, bugmasher 1234x desending out of 5000 for 3".
Maybe i do it wrong. I dont know. :confused:
Click to expand...

Wouldn't say it's wrong. Like Bob said, there's nothing regulatory on phraseology.

However, both the AIM and the controllers manual specify type facility with the name of the facility in their examples. Is it a big deal? In most cases not.
 
gismo said:
I use "Approach..." for any situation except an actual departure and even then if the airport I took off from wasn't the primary airport for the Class B I sometimes use Approach and I've never heard anyone complain either way.

If you ever run into a TRACON controller who gets his panties in a wad over being called departure vs approach you're probably gonna be in trouble unless you say TREE, FIFE, and NINER along with a dozen other minor gotchas. Personally I wouldn't sweat it and worry about more important things like not missing a call.
Click to expand...

I've actually started using TREE, FIFE and NINER more these days since transitioning to 121 flying....but I still miss calls from time to time!
 
Some TRACONs have names that don't reflect the names of nearby airports or cities (e.g., "Chinook" in central Washington, or "Joshua" in the California high desert). While on flight following with Center in an unfamiliar area, I've had fast-talking controllers (probably with a mouthful of sandwich) hand me off to "Mffbpmfl Approach." So I just crank in the frequency and say, "Approach, Bugsmasher 123, 5,500 ...," and see who answers.

:dunno:
 
gismo said:
I use "Approach..." for any situation except an actual departure and even then if the airport I took off from wasn't the primary airport for the Class B I sometimes use Approach and I've never heard anyone complain either way.
Click to expand...

Same for me. I only use departure if I am departing and only if I am IFR
 
Pilawt said:
Some TRACONs have names that don't reflect the names of nearby airports or cities (e.g., "Chinook" in central Washington, or "Joshua" in the California high desert). While on flight following with Center in an unfamiliar area, I've had fast-talking controllers (probably with a mouthful of sandwich) hand me off to "Mffbpmfl Approach." So I just crank in the frequency and say, "Approach, Bugsmasher 123, 5,500 ...," and see who answers.

:dunno:
Click to expand...

Joshua refers to Joshua Tree, which is in that general area. :D

I did the same thing a lot last month. There were a few that I had to listen to their responses to others a few times to get it, and a couple that I just wrote down ???approach in the log (we were writing them all down)
 
departure is used from the airport of the controlling facility.. departing from Indianapolis Airport would use Indianapolis Departure Freq... If you departed from another airport then use Approach... I think as soon as they hear the word departure they start scanning around their runways not the surrounding airports.. :dunno:
 
StinkBug said:
Joshua refers to Joshua Tree, which is in that general area. :D
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Joshua Tree is more than 100 miles to the southeast of Edwards, on the other side of Palm Springs, and is served by SoCal.

Joshua Approach controls the airspace around and below the R-2508 complex, from roughly Palmdale north.

Another place where a TRACon name is out of place is Reno, NV. It's controlled by NorCal, and it's not contiguous with other NorCal airspace. Oakland Center does Lake Tahoe.
 
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