Coffee

flyingron said:
$28 from Suzanne (www.coffeeofkona.com) plus you have to pay shipping. I buy green beans from her in units of 18 pounds (that's the sweet spot for the fixed rate box she puts them into). I roast it up a half pound at a time.

As for coffee making apparatus, at home I have a Jura automatic that grinds the beans and makes coffee. At Oshkosh (or for testing things), I use an Aeropress. This is a little $30 gizmo made by the guy who made the Aerobee ring toy. It makes up to 4 shots of espresso at a time, purely manually. Easy to use and clean up (unlike my former REI stainless steel french press).
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This is great, buying it from the source! I will be placing an order soon!!
 
SoCal RV Flyer said:
I get mild migraines that don't seem to respond to the ordinary drugs, so when I feel one coming on I'll grab a coffee, Diet Pepsi, whatever and it seems to take the edge off.
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Caffeine is a component of many OTC migraine medicines. It is both the treatment and cause of headeaches....
 
Definitely an acquired taste. I usually take just cream in my coffee but I like it black if it is good, especially with something sweet. Alcohol similarly an acquired taste. I was trying bourbons and single-malts recently to see if I wanted to acquire a taste for any of that but I am still very much on the fence.
 
We twice have been to Kona (my son in law is a professional triathlete and ran the Ironman there). On one trip, I just happened by the place I had been buying coffee and spent a nice hour talking to her parents. On the next trip we specifically arranged to meet Suzanne and spent time on her porch drinking iced tea and playing with her dog, after she had shown us the production facility.
 
One benefit of spending my teen years in a liberal west coast town was being introduced to really good coffee back in the mid 80s. There were great coffeehouses, and they got me hooked on French roast and espresso when I was still in high school.

I don’t drink coffee to wake up - I wake up to drink coffee.
 
ateamer said:
I don’t drink coffee to wake up - I wake up to drink coffee.
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I am set up the other way around. When I was in medical training, I had a single-cup drip-coffee maker on the counter in my bathroom. It had a timer that was set 15minutes before the time I had to get up. So I woke up the smell of coffee in the morning and was ready to go on rounds at whatever godforsaken time it was necessary to do so.
 
ateamer said:
One benefit of spending my teen years in a liberal west coast town was being introduced to really good coffee back in the mid 80s. There were great coffeehouses, and they got me hooked on French roast and espresso when I was still in high school.

I don’t drink coffee to wake up - I wake up to drink coffee.
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Brooklyn was the same way, except that because most of the coffee shops were fronts for Mafia activity, there was the added excitement of a possible mob hit going down at any moment.

Rich
 
asicer said:
What does PoA think of Moka Pots?
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4 or 5 years ago I got one of those.

It's a fascinating invention, but the coffee it makes is "different" because of the steam and other temperature and pressure differences from a drip machine.

I like the coffee that it makes, but I haven't figured out how to drink the stuff. The one I have says "8 cups", but that's barely enough to fill a mug. Then I remember that it's 8 of those little tiny European cups.

I haven't used it in a long time.
 
Matthew said:
I like the coffee that it makes, but I haven't figured out how to drink the stuff. The one I have says "8 cups", but that's barely enough to fill a mug. Then I remember that it's 8 of those little tiny European cups.
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I suspect that it should have said "8 shots" (as in espresso, which is 1 oz each) but something got lost in translation.

I've had coffee from a Moka Pot once but don't remember what it was like, hence the curiosity. I do seem to remember it tasting pretty good, which is pretty remarkable considering that this was back in the days when I didn't drink coffee at all.
 
asicer said:
I suspect that it should have said "8 shots" (as in espresso, which is 1 oz each) but something got lost in translation.

I've had coffee from a Moka Pot once but don't remember what it was like, hence the curiosity. I do seem to remember it tasting pretty good, which is pretty remarkable considering that this was back in the days when I didn't drink coffee at all.
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I'm not an expert on these things at all. I don't think it's technically an espresso, so I'm not sure how they compare. It makes a 'different' flavor profile because of the way it's brewed, but I do like it. For convenience I'll stick with drip and make a whole pot of what I'm used to. But the Moka deal does make for an interesting break from the routine. Someday I'll have to read the directions more closely, I might be doing it all wrong. It is a fascinating little device.
 
asicer said:
What does PoA think of Moka Pots?
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Never heard of those but when I googled it it looked just like the stovetop expresso makers we have been using for Cuban coffee like forever.

 
alfadog said:
Never heard of those but when I googled it it looked just like the stovetop expresso makers we have been using for Cuban coffee like forever.

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The best cup of coffee is an espresso made early in the morning on your camp stove using some bottled water and grinds carried in a Ziploc bag.
 
This is the third long coffee thread in as many years IIRC. Based on the suggestions/advice in the two previous threads I have:

- tried butter instead of cream. Was ok, I didn’t detect the buzz everyone talked about.
- upgraded from blade grinder to burr grinder. Less grinds in bottom of the cup, but not sure there is a taste difference
- tried distilled water instead of tap. Couldn’t tell a difference.
- stopped buying the biggest bag of beans at Sam’s and started buying the smallest bag at local grocery. Can’t tell a difference.
- started making my coffee stronger (1.25 tbsp per “cup” as measured by tick marks on carafe). Tastes better.
- tried and failed to acquire the taste for black coffee. May give it another shot.

We all have our passions. For those of you who have a passion for coffee and can detect all these subtle differences, more power to you. As for me, I grind the night before and set the pot to turn on at 6, and I am good with that. And if the grinder ever breaks, I'll probably just go back to pre-ground.
 
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Actually, here in NC I am amazed with how many independent coffee shops we have. Apparently, we're not a big enough market to have attracted Starbucks and the others.
 
Matthew said:
4 or 5 years ago I got one of those.

It's a fascinating invention, but the coffee it makes is "different" because of the steam and other temperature and pressure differences from a drip machine.

I like the coffee that it makes, but I haven't figured out how to drink the stuff. The one I have says "8 cups", but that's barely enough to fill a mug. Then I remember that it's 8 of those little tiny European cups.

I haven't used it in a long time.
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Moka pots don't technically make espresso, and the taste of the coffee they produce is a bit different from espresso. In Italy, Moka coffee is usually called nero (black) rather than espresso (made by using pressure). In the States, people other than enthusiasts tend to call both types of coffee espresso.

Moka coffee is made by heating water until steam is produced. The steam passes up through the ground coffee and condenses in the top of the pot as liquid coffee. There isn't a whole lot of pressure, which is why it's not espresso. The temperature of the steam is doing the heavy lifting.

Espresso coffee, on the other hand, is made by forcing very hot liquid water through the ground coffee using pressure of at least 10 bars. Most better machines use ~ 15 bars of pressure. Both the heat and the pressure are involved in extracting the flavor from the ground coffee.

Traditionally, espresso was made using a hand-operated machine with a lever that the barista pulled to manually force the water through the puck of coffee. Because this procedure involved a certain amount of skill both in terms of packing the puck and pulling the lever, a barista who could "pull" a good cup of espresso was highly respected.

The usage of the term "pull" with reference to making espresso has also survived in some enthusiast circles, even when automated machines are used. If I have a guest who I know to be an enthusiast, I'll offer to "pull" him or her an espresso, not "make" one. Also, the word "cup" generally isn't used with reference to espresso or cappuccino. You don't say, "I'd like a cup of espresso." You say "I'd like an espresso."

Cappuccino is espresso with frothed milk (or sometimes cream) on top. The milk may or may not be mixed with flavorings like vanilla or almond extract, may or may not be sweetened, and may or may not be topped with cinnamon, nutmeg, or other spices and toppings. Latte is coffee of any sort mixed with heated milk rather than with frothed milk sitting on top of it.

The actual cups used for espresso or moka coffee, by the way, are known as demitasse cups. That's French for "half cup," but the term is used in many languages. It's also sometimes used for the actual beverages of either moka coffee or espresso. If you go to an Italian or French restaurant and ask for a demitasse after dinner, they'll know what you mean.

The flavor of properly-made moka coffee will generally be much better than that of a cheap espresso machine (many of which technically aren't even espresso machines because they don't generate enough pressure). That's because the moka pot relies on the natural steam to make its way up through the coffee at its own rate and condense in the top of the pot. It's the heat that releasing the aromatic oils, and it's not in a hurry to do it.

A cheap espresso pot, on the other hand, usually will force a mixture of water and steam through the coffee at a temperature that's not quite high enough to make good moka, a pressure that's not quite high enough to make good espresso, and a rate that's too fast to coax the aromatic oils out of the coffee. The result is a dull, flat beverage lacking in depth and breadth of flavor.

A good espresso pot will force hot water on the verge of boiling through the puck at high pressure at a rate determined largely by how tightly the puck was packed. Too loose a puck will result in weak coffee with no character. Too tight a puck will result in burnt coffee that will overpower the natural flavors. The perfectly-packed puck will result in something almost mystical.

Finally, many people add some alcoholic beverage or another to their espresso or moka. Sambuca (an anise-flavored liqueur), brandy, or rum are probably the most common. (I usually don't add anything.)

Rich
 
Wow!! Someone is seriously into coffee!

I just want it strong, hot, black and in my cup. Without tasting burnt like it was roasted in Seattle . . . .

Good coffee don't need nothing else in the cup with it.
 
RJM62 said:
Moka coffee is made by heating water until steam is produced. The steam passes up through the ground coffee and condenses in the top of the pot as liquid coffee. There isn't a whole lot of pressure, which is why it's not espresso. The temperature of the steam is doing the heavy lifting.
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The stovetop espresso maker doesn't push steam through the grinds to make the bulk of the drink. If you notice there is a riser that goes to the bottom of the water chamber. Once the water starts boiling, rhe increasing pressure pushes the water up through the riser into the coffee grounds and from there into the coffee chamber. Once the water level drops below the riser tube, there is a final rush of steam that creates a small amount of crema and dries out the grounds. The difference to a pump based espresso machine is in the lower pressure at work during the extraction, 2-3 bar max instead of 10+ in a pump machine, but the medium is boiling temp water, not steam.

In your typical Italian home, you won't find a $3000 espresso machine. You find a stove-top pot, but the drink will be called espresso.
 
weilke said:
The stovetop espresso maker doesn't push steam through the grinds to make the bulk of the drink. If you notice there is a riser that goes to the bottom of the water chamber. Once the water starts boiling, rhe increasing pressure pushes the water up through the riser into the coffee grounds and from there into the coffee chamber. Once the water level drops below the riser tube, there is a final rush of steam that creates a small amount of crema and dries out the grounds. The difference to a pump based espresso machine is in the lower pressure at work during the extraction, 2-3 bar max instead of 10+ in a pump machine, but the medium is boiling temp water, not steam.

In your typical Italian home, you won't find a $3000 espresso machine. You find a stove-top pot, but the drink will be called espresso.
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Not every machine I've owned has had the riser. The ancient one my parents have didn't, either. The newest one I have does. Maybe some of them were misplaced over the years; although the new one is a part of the funnel.

You learn something new every day.

Rich
 
asicer said:
Excellent explanation. Only thing missing is a discussion about crema.
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The crema is the light-colored "foam" or "head" that forms on top of the espresso from steam or bubbles passing through the ground coffee and extracting the aromatic oils. It's very rich in flavor and its presence or absence is a function of the coffee itself (mainly its freshness and the way it was roasted and ground), the way the puck was packed, and the extraction process (not too fast).

Freshly-roasted and ground beans that were specifically intended for espresso and that haven't already lost their oils, in a properly-packed puck that is neither too loose nor too tight, produce the best crema. If the puck is too loose, you'll get little or no crema. If it's too tight, you may get more crema; but the espresso itself may be burnt and bitter.

I don't worry much about the crema when using an automatic machine because the same factors that produce good espresso -- mainly the freshness of the coffee and the packing of the puck -- usually produce a good crema. The freshness is the most important thing. Stale coffee loses its oils to the air, and even a perfect process can't overcome that deficit.

Rich
 
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I use a Miele built in machine and lately have been into Valhalla coffees. That machine does a really nice brew, has a wide range of adjustability on temps, grind, etc, is relatively easy to take care of, and the Miele brand is quality stuff IMO. That machine has been going for nearly 10 years now and hasn’t needed any service.

I’ve got a strong itch to get into home roasting beans for a new hobby. :)

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I had the previous version of the Miele coffee station (SAECO guts). Didn't make the greatest espresso and was a reliability nightmare. I left it in the house I sold a few years back. I've been using a Jura ever since.
 
asicer said:
What does PoA think of Moka Pots?
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I use mine to make an Americano, about 1/3 mug coffee and 1/3 mug hot water. Condensed milk on occasion if I'm in a café con leche kinda mood. Handy for when I want one cup of coffee instead of a whole pot of drip.
 
Any Kona coffee snobs out there? My guy owns www.konaearth.com. It's only the best all American coffee (fact).

Someone mentioned roasting at home and may I suggest this Gizmo. Please get it and let me know what you think of it. I'll never have the cash to buy one, but I want to know what it's like to have a personal roasting thing in one's own home.

Or, should I buy the air popcorn popper from the 70's and roast my own that way?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk
 
RJM62 said:
Brooklyn was the same way, except that because most of the coffee shops were fronts for Mafia activity, there was the added excitement of a possible mob hit going down at any moment.

Rich
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I worked at my uncle's Candy Store under the El in Brooklyn starting at age 10 and learned how to make coffee to go for the commuters getting ready to run up the stairs. Had a rack of papers outside the window, can't count how many coffee, pack of smokes and paper orders I completed, no register to ring up or tell me how much change to return. Learned a lot of lessons.

Personally we still make our coffee on the stove in a percolator because I like my coffee piping hot. The stove top percolators are getting harder and harder to find, Bed, Bath & Beyond carries the but online only, next time I need to replace one I'll likely by 2 or 3.
 
Eric Stoltz said:
....Or, should I buy the air popcorn popper from the 70's and roast my own that way?
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I did that for a while a few years ago. It is cheap and easy, and I had a lot of fun with it. The big downside is that you have very limited control over what you do with your roasts. But it does work.
 
Eric Stoltz said:
Someone mentioned roasting at home and may I suggest this Gizmo....Or, should I buy the air popcorn popper from the 70's and roast my own that way?
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Wow...that's certainly...well, special, I guess. An air popper (or a skillet in a pinch) works just fine for home use and the batch size is perfect for experimenting with different beans and roasts and stuff without a lot of fuss and waste.

About 15 years ago I got a 5lb Kyle stainless drum for a gas grill and it's outlasted 2 grills and shows no sign of slowing down. I love it, but it's as much about my love of tools and gadgets as it is coffee snobbery. I will still walk down to the grocery store and grab a pound of whatever they have and happily drink it when I'm out of our own stuff.

ETA: That's a stainless steel drum for roasting coffee in up to 5-lb batches. Also makes an impressive flaming torch if you overfill it. Holy cow the prices have gone waaaay up!

Nauga,
beaned
 
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After wearing out two DeLonghi Magnificas, we now have a Jura E6 and love it. After spending <mumblemumble> dollars on espresso machines, we figure we're probably still money ahead by avoiding coffee shops, be they Starbucks or the local ones. I'm a full time telecommuter, and I do love my coffee. So does my wife... I think we go through about 2 pounds of beans per week, and we can't get coffee anywhere, ever, that's as good as what we get at home. Well... I did have a macchiato that was just heavenly in one little place, but I had to go to Copenhagen to get it.

She likes her French vanilla creamer. I usually go with black or an Americano but there's the occasional cappuccino or macchiato, depending on my mood.
 
You linked a roaster that goes for over $10,000. I use a hottop, which while hardly cheap is less than 10% of that price. The problem with the hot air poppers, is they only roast about 2 ounces at the time, and don't do a tremendous job at that. And as I stated, I use Lions Gate Kona (www.coffeeofkona.com).

If people want to get into roasting. www.sweetmarias.com has all the information (and roasters and raw materials) that will get you going.
 
Why do they say to start with cold water when brewing coffee? How does the coffee know the difference after the water has been heated to 204.9944 or whatever the optimal brewing temperature is?
 
RJM62 said:
The crema is the light-colored "foam" or "head" that forms on top of the espresso from steam or bubbles passing through the ground coffee and extracting the aromatic oils. It's very rich in flavor and its presence or absence is a function of the coffee itself (mainly its freshness and the way it was roasted and ground), the way the puck was packed, and the extraction process (not too fast).

Freshly-roasted and ground beans that were specifically intended for espresso and that haven't already lost their oils, in a properly-packed puck that is neither too loose nor too tight, produce the best crema. If the puck is too loose, you'll get little or no crema. If it's too tight, you may get more crema; but the espresso itself may be burnt and bitter.

I don't worry much about the crema when using an automatic machine because the same factors that produce good espresso -- mainly the freshness of the coffee and the packing of the puck -- usually produce a good crema. The freshness is the most important thing. Stale coffee loses its oils to the air, and even a perfect process can't overcome that deficit.

Rich
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What about carbon dioxide and it’s role in forming cream?
 
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