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Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by Challenged, Jan 9, 2019.
There's no guarantee that adjacent traffic has a radio or is even on the same frequency. I stick my arm out the window vent hole and use arm signals to signal my intentions.
I've done this in the run up or on a taxiway, but on a runway?! A little late, you think?
That was my thought.
I have never seen a video of the "well known guy" do this on a runway. But he's quite prolific with his videos so I guess it's possible..
I've flown with someone with a fresh PPL that did a 360 on the runway just before takeoff because that's what the CFI taught.
How many things can a brain do? It’s a hit and miss (no pun intended) to spot traffic even when alerted by ADSB. Plus, add correctly executing a proper clearing turn and thinking about the impending maneuver. Do you really think you can spot a speck (spot a speck? LOL) on the horizon?
Could have been me. Depends on where you were. More likely a 270.
I do it in the Cub, because the visibility on the ground is not great, and at an untowered field, where there are a number of aircraft operating nordo, or with hand-held radios with batteries that have died in flight, it just makes sense to be extra careful.
It also serves another purpose. Cubs, Champs, T-craft, Luscombes, etc, with original brakes are infamous for having brakes fail without warning.
Doing a 360 in each direction will let you know before hand whether you are going to need the entire runway to stop when you get back.
That depends on what you want to see and can't see unless you spin it around. Trees can block your view from the runup pad, but not of the final. If somebody is on a close base to final you won't know it. Cross the runway, turn around the long way and if it isn't clear, taxi straight ahead off the runway to where you were. Why is this so tough to imagine? It was SOP where I used to fly.
My CFI told me clearing turns serve two purposes: one is for you to look around, especially under the raised wing (cessna). Another was to put a bigger profile on the sky where it would be easier to see our plane. It made sense to me.
The FAA should mandate horns and turn signals so that even planes without ADS be can be warned if you're about to turn.
I wonder if ATC notices these on radar?
It’s tough to imagine pulling out onto the runway and THEN checking for traffic.
Yes, there are areas that can’t be seen at some airports, but when there are no obstructions and there’s plenty of room in the run up pad to maneuver, why pull onto the runway and then do a 360 (actually, a 450)?
For me, it isn't hard to imagine checking for traffic both before and after on the runway.
It’s the mindset that’s important, the point of a clearing turn is that you get your eyes outside and actually look around. Oh, and any maneuver you are about to perform isn’t going to be flown by the ADS-B or the autopilot, they are visual maneuvers and you should be mentally outside the airplane.
Me, either...not checking it before is what we have a problem with.
On the runway, though? There may be unique situations where that's the best spot, but they've got to be rare.
If it's single or parallel runways, the only directions that matters is ahead once on the runway. You're too late to do anything about someone behind you. Worst case is some sort of short approach that you missed because they were behind you when you entered the runway. Best thing for that is to get the hell off the runway by taking off. Otherwise, you're right in the crosshairs for much longer by spinning around.
If you have crossing runways, the 360 makes a lot more sense, as traffic that could interfere with your takeoff could be any direction. But...it would be quite the unusual situation for obstructions to seriously impede your view from the taxiway for these approaches that do not on the runway. I concede that it could happen, but it can't be that common. I can't think of an airport I've flown to that would be in that situation.
I'll 360 in runup or the taxiway, in part for collision avoidance on takeoff, but more for SA of planes in the pattern. The biggest threat is the guy on final you didn't bother looking for, but that doesn't need a 360 to see. The other threat is typically someone landing opposite direction. More dangerous, but rarer. I suppose there might be a rare case where the holes all line up. Pattern behind you, other aircraft on a really short approach from downwind for the opposite direction and they don't bother looking for you, either. However, I'd be more worried about extending my time on the runway with a 360 over that rare case.
Maybe I'm just overly paranoid about sitting on a runway. I've had one case where, landing 7L at LVK, tower cleared someone to line up and wait ahead of my landing. Tower left them there for a bit, then cleared them to take off, which I heard. But they didn't, and I missed that. Tower also promptly forgot about them, as they dealt with a go-around on 7R. I nearly landed on top of them. Did you know that you can totally lose a white plane on top of a big, white 7L marking? I was staring right at them and didn't see them until they finally started moving. I went around, offsetting left. (I probably had room to land behind them, but I was pretty spooked at that point.)
Ummm regarding the runway 360 thing.... wouldn’t it be better to just get the heck going once you are there? Any plane on final is just gonna laugh. I think I might.
Gee, guys, one of my very first airplane rides back in the 1950s was as a passenger in a Cessna 182. The pilot back-taxied the whole length of the runway, spun it around in a circle like the top turrett on a WWII bomber, clearing the entire sky of any possible conflict with our departure. Satisfied, off we went. It forever made a GOOD impression on me. At a very busy, very small airport I used to fly from, the pattern was kept tight--as in only power-off approaches in Piper Colts (glide ratios of run-a-way elevators) and you couldn't see through the wing over your shoulder and past the trees. Not enough time to "get the heck" out of the way on the takeoff roll. It would force the other pilot to go around. But that doesn't mean we'd cross the button before looking as far as we could see first, before doing the 270. Seeing somebody else spin before takeoff, consequently, doesn't evoke these guffaws deep from within me.
There is no taxi way on most of the airports I fly in and out of, but almost all have a large circle set up on both ends of the runway specifically made for doing a 360 circle to check for traffic.
On grass it's even worse. Normally careful pilots seem to completely forget they have a radio in the plane when they pull into the pattern at a grass strip.
Not sure... but I've had ATC tell me "traffic 11 o'clock at 3500 maneuvering and not talking to me"... so I assumed someone VFR doing airwork, including clearing turns (hopefully)
I have a feeling that the "large circle set up on both ends of the runway" is primarily for aiding in turning a back-taxiing aircraft around, not specifically for "checking traffic".
But it's also there because too many people don't bother to use their radios.
I would like to ask, how many of you have actually seen another airplane during a clearing turn?
I am from the dark-side!
Soon, in retirement, I will roam the skies, NORDO, without transponder or handheld! You will not see me on the itty-bitty screen! You will not hear me on the cursed talk-box! Look outside! Look outside! I will wear a chute! You must buy a Cirrus to escape me (or an EXP with a BRS). . .
Joking aside, one time, very near - he was wearing a Dave Clark headset and had brown eyes. That's in 40+ years. And it turned out our "practice" area was centered on an approach fix. Once I realized the club and our CFI's were trying to kill us students, I did my stalls and such somewhere else.
A couple times, but not nearly as close as @Sundancer
Be careful out there, the Brownings have live belts loaded in... (kachunk)
Dozens of times at a minimum. And I've seen plenty of pilots who didn't see other planes that I saw. Not bragging, concerned when that happens. And yeah, I miss planes that my pilot spots sometimes, too.
Makes me wonder how many of those who never see any planes like to do the mid-field cross to the downwind leg.
How about those of us that do see other planes all the time and still like doing the midfield crosswind??
Just keep your head in your lap staring at your Flight Unaware - can't see much out of a Cessna anyway.
Many times. I’ve done training in some pretty busy practice areas
Back when I was a student pilot and flying around the practice area in Pennsylvania, I saw other planes pretty regularly while doing clearing turns (or otherwise just playing around). Given the number of planes I see flying over my house practicing maneuvers or otherwise having fun, I would say it's a good idea around these parts, too.