Classic cars- original or build

[Racerx]

Curious what everyone's opinion on the matter is. TLDR, Do you like classic cars to stay classic or do you gravitate towards the custom builds?

20+ years ago my grandpa acquired a 1953 F100 with a flathead V8. Nobody knows why he bought it. He drove it exactly once. From wherever he bought it straight into his shop where he blocked it in with junk. He passed away 10 years ago and I'd really like to do something with it. There's no rust. Some minor hail damage and an ugly brown with red wheels. The flathead runs, just needs a new water pump. My grandma just wants to drive it once. So I'm torn what to do with this thing. Not that I need another project.

 

[Tools]

My opinion is why are you doing what you’re doing? To honor previous owner, what was THEIR INTENT. For you, then you do you.

If original is uncommon and possible, I lean towards keeping it that way.

If too far gone or just not economically feasible for original, anything that keeps it driving is cool.

Anything is better than a project that never gets done.

 

[Flatiowa]

They are only original once, but if you decide to go the hot rod route I’ve been informally looking for a running flathead and transmission for a ‘36 ford one ton dually (I swapped the seized original engine in it for a big block caddy back in the ‘90’s, and regret doing it more and more every year.

 

[geezer]

Ugly brown is probably dark bronze in the sales brochures. A previous owner who wishes they still had their first pickup, will pay very good money for a rust free, indoor stored example, regardless of color. If you have seen the rust buckets that fast and cheap restorers put back together for high dollars, you would look at this pickup differently.

Rust free is the most valuable feature of this truck. Be sure that your grandma gets the drive in it.

Let the next owner customize it to suit themselves, they will pay you for that dream truck, visualizing it fixed up just like they want it..

 

[Racerx]

I don't plan on selling it. It's paid for, nobody needs the money. I'll build another building to store it if space is an issue. Classic vehicles ain't getting cheaper and this has some sentimental value, even if nobody can quite figure out why my grandpa bought it in the first place. We don't know his intent except maybe perhaps an impulse buy. He was never one to follow through with any sort of plan.

Aesthetically I do like some of the lowered and tubbed out f100's from that era. But I also appreciate something that's well kept and "original"

I want to get it in running order so she can drive it an teach me 3 on a tree. One of the few things I haven't driven.

 

[kyleb]

...Classic vehicles ain't getting cheaper...

It depends. Yesterday, first generation Ford Thunderbirds were hot. Then the generation which admired them began to age out, so demand and prices dropped. Today, '70's 911's are really hot. I'd bet they will hit a ceiling, then drop in the next 5-10 years. I think this is an ongoing cycle - wealthy retirees buy what they wanted when they were 20-30, and 10-20 years later, there are no follow-on buyers.

 

[jbarrass]

As you describe it I'd stay original. It's not a super classic one-of-a-kind rare, but rare enough that if you drive it to a classic car show you'll draw a crowd.

How are the seats and interior?

 

[Busflyer]

Like Flatiowa said, they are only original once.
Mine’s about 98% original. Had to replace the seat cover.

 

[Dana]

If original is uncommon and possible, I lean towards keeping it that way.

If too far gone or just not economically feasible for original, anything that keeps it driving is cool.

I also love seeing completely original (faded paint, surface rust, etc., but solid) old cars with well maintained mechanicals.

I want to get it in running order so she can drive it an teach me 3 on a tree. One of the few things I haven't driven.

If you can drive a stick you can drive a 3 on the tree, it's the same pattern as a 3 speed on the floor. My first car was an AMC Hornet with 3 on the tree, the only one I ever saw. Just like my first plane had to be a taildragger, my first car had to be a manual.

 

[455 Bravo Uniform]

Design and looks-wise, I’d leave it as-is. Get it running ASAP so grandma can at least see, hear, smell it run and maybe even ride in it. Body-shop purgatory is the last place you’d want it. You still have time this fall to drive it a few times before salt. Go get a burger with grandma.

Just an opinion- too many nice looking “show” vehicles or purposefully patina’d rods. Keep it as-is for the time being and enjoy not worrying about scratches. You’ll start to hear opinions and get thumbs up while driving or going to cruise-ins and then can decide later.

Can we get a pic

 

[Flatiowa]

If you can drive a stick you can drive a 3 on the tree, it's the same pattern as a 3 speed on the floor.

True in principle, though not completely true in practice.. the synchronization of the gears are not the same or efficient as a more modern manual, you can’t just slam from one gear to the next like a more modern transmission. It requires more of a finessed “pop” out of one gear into neutral and then a “click” into the next at the proper time to not grind the gears. More like driving a semi (atleast that is how the three on the tree is on my ‘47 Chevy).

 

[FormerHangie]

The deal with old cars is that other than the sporty ones, they aren't much fun to drive.

I use a Roku to connect my TV to the internet, and one of the default channels that Roku provides is one that shows collector car auctions. What seems to be hot now is a restomod, a car that's updated with a modern drivetrain and brakes, and quite often coilovers replacing the original springs and shock. Cars that haven't been updated sell for a pittance. Doing all that stuff is a lot of work and money. If your grandmother wants to ride in it, get it running, make the interior reasonably nice, and get it going. After that, you can decide what you want to do long term. Personally, I like to drive, and the modern stuff drives better than the antiques, so I don't have a vintage car.

 

[kyleb]

Personally, I like to drive, and the modern stuff drives better than the antiques, so I don't have a vintage car.

Which is why my play car will probably be an NC Miata not a '70's 911.

 

[aterry1067]

How many original miles? Less than 20k, you’d be insane to chop it up. But it sounds like your ancestor bought it long after production year, so maybe it has a lot of miles? If you’re just looking for high value, there are 2 ways to go:

1: a vehicle that has outstanding prominence. Maybe it was owned by a celebrity? It’s 70 years old with less than 10k miles from factory? It’s a one off special order with odd factory options that wasn’t on the normal show room floor models?

2: a restoration or resto-mod of impeccable quality. This will NOT be cheap. Go to a Concourse de’ Elegance for reference to quality of build.

For now, it sounds like you are interested in just getting it running and dependable enough that you and your grandmother can drive it. That’s immensely nostalgic and personal, and I sincerely hope you get to do it. This is probably a bigger bucket list item for your grandma than you or anyone else thinks. Prepare to be surprised at the joy and ease of driving displayed from your grandma. She will be instantly teleported to her youth.


Once she passes, if you become the owner of the vehicle, feel free to do as you wish. But for now, for the sake of your grandmother, please keep the vehicle as original as possible. It’s how she remembers it.

 

[Flatiowa]

This is probably a bigger bucket list item for your grandma than you or anyone else thinks.

I second this. I can easily imagine there being many “conversations” about that “darn truck you bought and never did anything with sitting in the shed” over the years between your grandparents… it may very well be a very emotional moment for her to drive or ride in it.

 

[Racerx]

How many original miles? Less than 20k, you’d be insane to chop it up. But it sounds like your ancestor bought it long after production year, so maybe it has a lot of miles? If you’re just looking for high value, there are 2 ways to go:

1: a vehicle that has outstanding prominence. Maybe it was owned by a celebrity? It’s 70 years old with less than 10k miles from factory? It’s a one off special order with odd factory options that wasn’t on the normal show room floor models?

2: a restoration or resto-mod of impeccable quality. This will NOT be cheap. Go to a Concourse de’ Elegance for reference to quality of build.

For now, it sounds like you are interested in just getting it running and dependable enough that you and your grandmother can drive it. That’s immensely nostalgic and personal, and I sincerely hope you get to do it. This is probably a bigger bucket list item for your grandma than you or anyone else thinks. Prepare to be surprised at the joy and ease of driving displayed from your grandma. She will be instantly teleported to her youth.


Once she passes, if you become the owner of the vehicle, feel free to do as you wish. But for now, for the sake of your grandmother, please keep the vehicle as original as possible. It’s how she remembers it.

She doesn't really know I want to fix it up. Was sort of an idea for a surprise. She made the comment once years ago that she wants to drive it just once. The way she said it led me to believe it was the source of a few arguments and doubt she cares what it looks like cuz she never even rose in the thing.

The seats need to be redone. Needs a little body work from some dings. The wood in the bed is crap and it needs a water pump and a thorough cleaning. Fuel is varnish at this point. But the bones are there.

 

[Flatiowa]

I put coat of rust oleum on this with a roller a few weekends ago (been doing a resto on the mechanical parts for a while), is it perfect? Absolutely not, can I drive it around now and in a year or two take the time to do a proper full restoration if I choose to, yes. Don’t let perfect stand in the way of “good enough”.

 

[FormerHangie]

Which is why my play car will probably be an NC Miata not a '70's 911.

That's a great car. I see lots of guys at the track with MX-5's and they're having a great time, and they learn how to use everything the car has. There are a lot of guys at track days driving cars that are faster than they can drive them.

 

[aterry1067]

View attachment 146589View attachment 146590
I put coat of rust oleum on this with a roller a few weekends ago (been doing a resto on the mechanical parts for a while), is it perfect? Absolutely not, can I drive it around now and in a year or two take the time to do a proper full restoration if I choose to, yes. Don’t let perfect stand in the way of “good enough”.

You probably already know, but if not, check out a product called Penetrol if you’re painting Rustoleum with a roller. I’m painting my Cherokee with a roller. Penetrol is helping it come out very smooth with very few roller lines.

HD and Lowe’s carries it.

 

[Flatiowa]

Deusenbergs, Dobles, early Rolls Royce’s were painted with brushes and rollers, a modern paint booth and sprayer is nice to have, but by no means necessary.

 

[Racerx]

Design and looks-wise, I’d leave it as-is. Get it running ASAP so grandma can at least see, hear, smell it run and maybe even ride in it. Body-shop purgatory is the last place you’d want it. You still have time this fall to drive it a few times before salt. Go get a burger with grandma.

Just an opinion- too many nice looking “show” vehicles or purposefully patina’d rods. Keep it as-is for the time being and enjoy not worrying about scratches. You’ll start to hear opinions and get thumbs up while driving or going to cruise-ins and then can decide later.

Can we get a pic

Regarding body shop purgatory... My uncle owns a body shop and my cousin's husband owns one as well. But I know what you're saying. I stupidly didn't take a pic last time I was over there.

 

[asicer]

I want to get it in running order so she can drive it an teach me 3 on a tree. One of the few things I haven't driven.

She doesn't really know I want to fix it up. Was sort of an idea for a surprise. She made the comment once years ago that she wants to drive it just once. The way she said it led me to believe it was the source of a few arguments and doubt she cares what it looks like cuz she never even rose in the thing.

Sounds to me that this is the mission (at the moment) and that the resto vs mod decision comes well after this is accomplished.

 

[Albany Tom]

Just my 2 cents, after watching some of the "repair shop" episodes on tv. She said she just wants to drive it because she just wants to drive it. Because driving it is going to bring back memories of him. The truck is just a path to that memory. So get the water pump working, don't worry any about it what it looks like, don't pay attention to what anybody else thinks or wants, and share that moment with her. Because that's really the only thing that matters. If my plan is wrong, you're only out a little bit of effort. If I'm right, you'll be taking her back in time, and that's kinda priceless. Then keep it around where she can see it when she wants to.

 

[Arrow67]

That’s awesome I’d keep it mostly original for now. Get it running, let your grandma have that drive, then decide later if you want to customize it. You can’t recreate that “grandpa’s truck” moment.

 

[TCABM]

Original (down to original paint), numbers matching vehicles I lean towards keeping them as close to original as possible. I do give concessions for 6V to 12V conversions for some.

Once it’s been re-painted, especially if a color change, that’s where things start to open up on what I would do.

In this case, it sounds like there may be some sentimental value in “as is” condition. I generally would get it running as is and take grandma for a Sunday drive. Let her have memories, and when she’s a memory, figure out what else to do then.

 

[GoFly]

Get it running, let Grandma drive it. Make the original/resto mod decision later.

 

[Gary Ward]

Now that I am getting older I like original more than resto mod. But I am not hell bent on keeping something original at any cost.
Here's a 71 318 challenger that I cloned to a 440 sixpak, shaker hood, dana rear and all the original parts that a 71 440 car would use.
I used plastic media to blast it bare. First I used a steam cleaner to remove all under coating and oils and tar. Then I don't have to blast as much and it's better for the metal.

This is the gold one.

My wife an I drive them.

 

[Half Fast]

20+ years ago my grandpa acquired a 1953 F100 with a flathead V8.

That brings back memories. My dad bought a '52 when I was a teenager. That was back in the 1970s when there was a truck craze going on.

Dad was more interested in hotrodding than classic restorations (he used to race dirt track), and I recall he swapped the engine for some other flathead. I don't remember all the details, but I recall he put on side pipes below the running boards, lowered it a little, and mounted wide rear tires. He got all the mechanical stuff done first, then had the body work done and had the truck in primer when somebody offered him a nice price for it and he sold it. I drove it a couple of times and it was a bear; the clutch was so heavy that shoving it down lifted me up on the seat, and for a skinny 16-year-old the steering and brakes were a real workout.

Back then, there was a weight limit on vehicles to qualify for an antique license plate and the truck was over the limit. While Dad had the bed off for rebuilding, he had the truck weighed and it came in a few pounds under the max and he was able to get an antique plate.

I agree with the "just get it running and take grandma for a ride" suggestions, and then afterward you can make long term plans. You might not know your grandpa's original intent, but you probably knew the man and what he might enjoy. Would he rather go to a classic car museum, a hotrod night on the town square, or a dragstrip?

For fun, you might try painting "RacerX Farms" on the doors and tossing some hay bales (or a load of manure) into the bed.

 

[Gary Ward]

I don't plan on selling it. It's paid for, nobody needs the money. I'll build another building to store it if space is an issue. Classic vehicles ain't getting cheaper and this has some sentimental value, even if nobody can quite figure out why my grandpa bought it in the first place. We don't know his intent except maybe perhaps an impulse buy. He was never one to follow through with any sort of plan.

Aesthetically I do like some of the lowered and tubbed out f100's from that era. But I also appreciate something that's well kept and "original"

I want to get it in running order so she can drive it an teach me 3 on a tree. One of the few things I haven't driven.

When I was 16 I got a job at a motel and restaurant.
Twice a day they sent the yard boys(I was one of them) to the laundry that was 4 miles up the road with laundry carts in the back of a old old dodge van( this was in 1976 and I think the van was 60s?) with a slant 6 and 3 on the tree.
It was old and worn out and you had to have a touch to shift it/jiggle just right to get it into 3rd gear. Everyone drove it that worked there not just for laundry runs.

A older gentleman named Ernie worked there and was deaf or really hard of hearing.
He couldn't get in high gear so he drove it in 2nd gear. Until something shot through the oil pan lost all the oil while he driving it. That was the end of that old van for us. It taught me how to drive a 3 on the tree. lol
Looking back I bet that van would make cool street rod today. I think I could get revved up about a project like that, probably with hemi in it.

 

[Dan Thomas]

True in principle, though not completely true in practice.. the synchronization of the gears are not the same or efficient as a more modern manual, you can’t just slam from one gear to the next like a more modern transmission. It requires more of a finessed “pop” out of one gear into neutral and then a “click” into the next at the proper time to not grind the gears. More like driving a semi (atleast that is how the three on the tree is on my ‘47 Chevy)

There were three different 3-speed manuals. The earlier ones were non-synchromesh, and had to be carefully shifted, or double-clutched, to change without grinding the gears. That's the one you're thinking of. Then, a little later, like circa 1950, the second and third gears were sychromeshed and you just pushed it into gear; the synchro rings were clutches that matched the gear speeds for the change. Then they finally synchroed all three gears and you just shifted without ugly noises, even into first.

The old non-synchroed units were easily identifiable by their sound: a howl. Their gears were straight-cut, no helical angles on the teeth, since those angles would push the thing out of gear under load.

 

[geezer]

Your granddad may have been at a Police auction for seized vehicles, and no one made a bid. He bid the minimum, and had a pickup truck to take home.

Grandma said "At least take my for a ride in it". Grandpa said "OK, as soon as I clean it up".

And time went by...

 

[Brad W]

If original is uncommon and possible, I lean towards keeping it that way.

If too far gone or just not economically feasible for original, anything that keeps it driving is cool.

Anything is better than a project that never gets done.

agreed!

I also love seeing completely original (faded paint, surface rust, etc., but solid) old cars with well maintained mechanicals.

I tend to agree. I'm drawn much more to original restorations. I used to be all about the hotrod, but I've completely flipped on that. I still admire a nicely hotrod done project, but if given a choice I like original as possible. There's a youtuber I watch sometimes that does car restorations (sara n tuned). She's just wrapping up a Toyota Celica restoration but she's going heavily modified. Still I enjoyed the series becasue when I was a kid my dad had a celica just like it...same color and everything. She's crazy over the top taking things to original perfection...even sourcing new old-stock OEM parts when she can. I forgive her departure from keeping it stock in this case, because the premise is cool. Installing a v-8 toyota engine from her dad's wrecked truck, and then gifting the engine back to him.

If you can drive a stick you can drive a 3 on the tree, it's the same pattern as a 3 speed on the floor. My first car was an AMC Hornet with 3 on the tree, the only one I ever saw. Just like my first plane had to be a taildragger, my first car had to be a manual.

I was thinking just a few weeks ago that I would love to have access to a 3 on the tree to drive it again, but also to teach my kids

Design and looks-wise, I’d leave it as-is. Get it running ASAP so grandma can at least see, hear, smell it run and maybe even ride in it.

I was thinking the same thing. Do the minimum to get it driveable for her.
I'll bet it'll take more than just a wter pump though. 20 year old tires aint safe. Probably lots of other elastomer parts will need replacement too. Wouldn't be suprised if there are some electrical gremlins to chase too...bad grounds and poor connections.

 

[Flatiowa]

Nice thing about vehicles that old, run a fused hot wire with a switch to the coil and a new set of points and your engine electrical is done. Put on a one wire delco remy alternator and your charging system is done, then you only have to worry about your lights if you plan on driving at night, (blinkers were not required until ‘54).

 

[Tools]

In high school I drove a ‘67 Nova, 3 in the tree. My bud had a ‘67 Stang that I drove a lot, 3 on the floor. At work drove a Chev delivery van, 4 on the floor…

Was forever putting the van in 2nd at stop lights, and the stang in reverse!

My dad taught me how to flip the shifter on the bench seat Nova so I could drive with my girl in the middle with my arm around her! A whole ‘nuther shift pattern…

 

[Gary Ward]

My girlfriend now wife did the shifting and I did the clutch on a 3 on the floor gremlin when we were really young!

 

[kaiser]

Didn't flat heads have cooling issues? I'm big into "living history", so i'm in the restoration camp - although I'm not super against swapping an engine to correct design issues from the original model.

Also - if you're looking to get rid of it... I may be interested. I may also just kick the tires. Was looking at these a while back on a whim and had some ideas.

edit: I don't know why I read it as you were looking to get rid of it. Other than I have been drinking...

 

[geezer]

I lived in that era, unaware of cooling issues if your radiator was normal.

 

[Flatiowa]

They did have barely adequate cooling when hopped up and when ran hard would tend to run hot and crack the exhaust seats in the center cylinders (Siamesed ports, 8 cylinders and six exhaust outlets out of the block) then Barney naverone (spelling?) came up with the idea of inserting copper tubes to act like a coolant distribution manifolds in them (late 50’s, early 60’s if I remember right) and that modification pretty much eliminates the problem up to mild/mid sanity boosted levels. Years of people using well water scaling up radiators and blocks probably was also a large contributor to the reputation. Also they had two different blocks. Early 21 stud and latter 24 stud heads, early engines were also Babbitt bearing, later insert. The “best” ones were the late mercurys they had the inserts, longer stroke, and if I remember correctly larger mains.

 

[Flatiowa]

They even very briefly made a “60” version, essentially a miniaturized one. Those are extremely rare to find, I’ve only ever seen one, in a small town museum in a vintage sprint car with offenhauser heads and triple stromberg 97’s carbs.

 

[Racerx]

In high school I drove a ‘67 Nova, 3 in the tree. My bud had a ‘67 Stang that I drove a lot, 3 on the floor. At work drove a Chev delivery van, 4 on the floor…

Was forever putting the van in 2nd at stop lights, and the stang in reverse!

My dad taught me how to flip the shifter on the bench seat Nova so I could drive with my girl in the middle with my arm around her! A whole ‘nuther shift pattern…

My dad's first car was a '66 Chevy ii. One of these days I'm gonna track one down for him. I got a lot of **** to buy