Class D / Tower / ASOS only - Initial Call?

TOP is a neat old airport. If you take off to the north (or land from the north), over the river, keep an eye out for bald eagles. They'll be there certain times of the year.
 
My home Class-D airport also has ASOS, but no ATIS. The controllers don't seem to care if you have listened to the ASOS, they just give you the wind and tell you how to arrive and when to call them with a position. There's no radar either! Usually when you call 2-4 miles out, they give you a landing clearance if there's nobody in the way.
 
"...have the weather" usually suffices for me, although I'll admit I've never been to a towered airport without an ATIS either.

Learn something new every day...
 
I can't recall ever hearing anybody making a AIM-compliant ATIS report. "With HOTEL" or even just "HOTEL" is pretty clear and short, but that's not what the AIM says to say.
 
James331 said:
Makes sense, just trying to recall a towered field that I’ve been to that didn’t have a ATIS
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They're pretty rare. Leesburg, FL (KLEE) is the only one I can think of bein in in the last dozen years.
 
Never heard the term ‘one minute weather’, I’ll have to look it up. In all my time flying I’ve never heard it on the radio, never heard it on liveatc and never heard it on YouTube, which is where I learned to fly. WTf is one minute weather?!? Weather doesn’t change every minute. ATIS/ASOS/AWOS doesn’t change every minute.
 
timwinters said:
Around here, about as many Class D fields don't have ATIS as do.
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Yep, even fields that had ATIS in the past tend to have regressed to ASOS/AWOS. I don't think the controllers even are qualified weather observers at some of these places any more.

And even the ones that have ATISs tend to be robo-atises where the ghost of Stephen Hawking reads you the NOTAMs/etc....
 
iamtheari said:
AWOS updates every minute.
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HOW COME NOBODY TELLS ME THESE THINGS!

I'm still not saying it. if I tell someone I have the weather it means I have the weather whether it was just updated or not.
 
eman1200 said:
HOW COME NOBODY TELLS ME THESE THINGS!
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I guess you're not using the Pilot/Controller Glossary as nighttime reading material, eh? ;)
I'm still not saying it. if I tell someone I have the weather it means I have the weather whether it was just updated or not.
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I have heard it, but only rarely. Don't worry about it. It's on the same level as the difference between "level 3,000," "3,000," and "with you 3,000" after an IFR handoff.
 
I’d just report and append “negative ATIS”
 
The "broadcast" AWOS updates every minute. The METAR it kicks out only changes hourly or if there is a "significant" change.
 
timwinters said:
Around here, about as many Class D fields don't have ATIS as do.
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Stillwater, Ok doesn't have one but probably should. That is one busy little airport anytime there is a football or basketball game. I flew in there for a bball game last year and I think the poor sucker in the tower only got to take a breath once about every 30 seconds.
 
I think one of the differences is that AWOS updates every minute, but ASOS updates every hour (at least that's the way it seems to work at our Class D.)

I think some of that is due to the way ASOS averages cloud height measurements over time.

edit:

I just called the ASOS at my class D, it's updated every hour to correspond with the METAR. I called the ASOS at a local non-towered airport and it's updated every minute.

I probably learned this in training, but have slept since.
 
eman1200 said:
Never heard the term ‘one minute weather’, I’ll have to look it up. In all my time flying I’ve never heard it on the radio, never heard it on liveatc and never heard it on YouTube, which is where I learned to fly. WTf is one minute weather?!? Weather doesn’t change every minute. ATIS/ASOS/AWOS doesn’t change every minute.
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One minute update is a requirement for some AWOS/ASOS's. The term one minute weather has been around for awhile.

There's this from AIM 4-3-26
EXAMPLE−
“I have the (airport) one−minute weather, request an ILS
Runway 14 approach.”

This from AIM 7-1-11 c.
AWOS Broadcasts. Computer-generated
voice is used in AWOS to automate the broadcast of
the minute-by-minute weather observations....

The controllers book has this to say
PHRASEOLOGY−
(Airport) AWOS/ASOS WEATHER AVAILABLE ON
(frequency).
1. ASOS/AWOS must be set to provide one
minute weather at uncontrolled airports that are
without ground−to−air weather broadcast capability
by a CWO, NWS or FSS observer.
 
Matthew said:
I think one of the differences is that AWOS updates every minute, but ASOS updates every hour (at least that's the way it seems to work at our Class D.)

I think some of that is due to the way ASOS averages cloud height measurements over time.

edit:

I just called the ASOS at my class D, it's updated every hour to correspond with the METAR. I called the ASOS at a local non-towered airport and it's updated every minute.

I probably learned this in training, but have slept since.
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AWOS and ASOS should provide the up to the minute weather by phone or radio. The METAR, as stated, is only updated hourly unless there is a significant change. So if you look online, Foreflight, or ADS-B, you are seeing the METAR, not the up to date AWOS/ASOS information. Now as you mention it does take the cloud measurements over a period of time, so there is a slight delay if the sky coverage changes rapidly.

I have asked the question numerous times to the FAA and National Weather Service why we can't have one minute METARs. Decades ago it was a technological issue, same as NOTAM abbreviations. With today's information technology, there is no reason we should settle for one hour old METARs. A 100 foot ceiling change, or 30 degree wind change may be insignificant sometimes and not trigger the need for a Special METAR, but it may make all the difference for an instrument approach or crosswind. The only way to currently get the one minute weather is by telephone or radio. Not much of an option if you are airborne but not quite in radio range yet.
 
midwestpa24 said:
I have asked the question numerous times to the FAA and National Weather Service why we can't have one minute METARs. Decades ago it was a technological issue, same as NOTAM abbreviations. With today's information technology, there is no reason we should settle for one hour old METARs. A 100 foot ceiling change, or 30 degree wind change may be insignificant sometimes and not trigger the need for a Special METAR, but it may make all the difference for an instrument approach or crosswind. The only way to currently get the one minute weather is by telephone or radio. Not much of an option if you are airborne but not quite in radio range yet.
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I wonder if part of the reason is the limitations of AWOS/ASOS. It is taking a 1-minute snapshot of what it sees. If the field has widespread IFR, but there's a hole where the ASOS/ASOS looks, you will get a report of clear skies. So, depending on when you look at the hypothetical continuous feed, you may get a very wrong picture of what is going on. Same for listening when not in radio range; the weather may be markedly different by the time you get there.

The current METARs, OTOH, with the hourly report updated only for significant changes, may actually provide a better "big picture," with the radio AWOS/ASOS broadcast providing more drill-down on a minute-by-minute basis.
 
midwestpa24 said:
AWOS and ASOS should provide the up to the minute weather by phone or radio. The METAR, as stated, is only updated hourly unless there is a significant change. So if you look online, Foreflight, or ADS-B, you are seeing the METAR, not the up to date AWOS/ASOS information. Now as you mention it does take the cloud measurements over a period of time, so there is a slight delay if the sky coverage changes rapidly.

I have asked the question numerous times to the FAA and National Weather Service why we can't have one minute METARs. Decades ago it was a technological issue, same as NOTAM abbreviations. With today's information technology, there is no reason we should settle for one hour old METARs. A 100 foot ceiling change, or 30 degree wind change may be insignificant sometimes and not trigger the need for a Special METAR, but it may make all the difference for an instrument approach or crosswind. The only way to currently get the one minute weather is by telephone or radio. Not much of an option if you are airborne but not quite in radio range yet.
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My Class D ASOS is on a one hour update schedule - by radio and telephone.
>>>
KIXD
WEATHER DATA SOURCES: ASOS 135.325 (913) 780–6987
<<<

The neighboring Class E ASOS is up to the minute:
>>>
KLWC
WEATHER DATA SOURCES: ASOS 121.225 (785) 749–1309
<<<

Not sure why they would update differently, except that IXD does issue a METAR and the METAR and ASOS times match.

edit:
What I don't know: does the ASOS update by the minute when tower is closed? If I can remember, I'll check that tonight.
 
Matthew said:
My Class D ASOS is on a one hour update schedule - by radio and telephone.
>>>
KIXD
WEATHER DATA SOURCES: ASOS 135.325 (913) 780–6987
<<<

The neighboring Class E ASOS is up to the minute:
>>>
KLWC
WEATHER DATA SOURCES: ASOS 121.225 (785) 749–1309
<<<

Not sure why they would update differently, except that IXD does issue a METAR and the METAR and ASOS times match.

edit:
What I don't know: does the ASOS update by the minute when tower is closed? If I can remember, I'll check that tonight.
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Not sure, but I do know it is as simple as a setting in the system of the ASOS. Ours is one minute as usual, but one time after some maintenance we noticed both radio and phone were hour old. I made one call to the NWS who owns and maintains it. He logged into it remotely and changed a setting while on the phone with me. Problem solved.
 
midwestpa24 said:
Not sure, but I do know it is as simple as a setting in the system of the ASOS. Ours is one minute as usual, but one time after some maintenance we noticed both radio and phone were hour old. I made one call to the NWS who owns and maintains it. He logged into it remotely and changed a setting while on the phone with me. Problem solved.
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Is yours at a towered airport?

Maybe that's the difference - tower has someone there to give updates when the wind changes and before the next METAR and ASOS update occurs. Special METARS get issued too, when necessary, and the ASOS gets updated that same time, too. They seem to make sure both timestamps always match.
 
My former home drome, Pearson Field in Vancouver, WA (KVUO), has an ASOS that has always broadcast one-minute updates. A few years ago the airport had a temporary tower for a year (runway construction at nearby KPDX shifted airline traffic over KVUO at pattern altitude). When that tower was in operation the ASOS broadcast was only updated hourly. When the tower went away, the ASOS went back to one-minute updates. The broadcasts sounded the same, one just had to listen closely to the time stamp.

Go figure.

(The controllers in Pearson's temporary tower were "borrowed" from Portland ATCT across the river. They loved working at Pearson -- quieter, low-key, easier commute ... and if they lived in Washington State, as many did, no state income tax for the time they worked there! :D)
 
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So...what if the class D doesn't have radar, just Mark II eye balls? How would one know?....does anyone care? :D
 
The controllers know that they do not have an ATIS and they want to know if you have the current weather so just tell them "with weather".
 
My class-D (KBKV) has a tower, no ATIS, no Radar, and the ASOS updates every minute. The controllers usually still give you the current wind before you are cleared to land. I have no idea why all ASOS/AWOS wouldn't update each minute if they had the capability to do so!
 
Pilawt said:
My former home drome, Pearson Field in Vancouver, WA (KVUO), has an ASOS that has always broadcast one-minute updates. A few years ago the airport had a temporary tower for a year (runway construction at nearby KPDX shifted airline traffic over KVUO at pattern altitude). When that tower was in operation the ASOS broadcast was only updated hourly. When the tower went away, the ASOS went back to one-minute updates. The broadcasts sounded the same, one just had to listen closely to the time stamp.

Go figure.

(The controllers in Pearson's temporary tower were "borrowed" from Portland ATCT across the river. They loved working at Pearson -- quieter, low-key, easier commute ... and if they lived in Washington State, as many did, no state income tax for the time they worked there! :D)
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Damn tax dodgers. It wasn’t just airline traffic, they always have been using the North runway. It was a wake turbulence thing. The heavies that they always put on the south side had to use the north side when the south side was dug up.
 
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