City of Austin is effectively closed to the little guys this weekend (It just ain't right...)

pburger

pburger

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
May 26, 2007
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Location
Houston, TX
Display Name
Paul B.
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TS07
I was planning a quick trip to Austin on Friday to have lunch with my brother and to drop a buddy off who is buying a truck from him. We were going to have a nice lunch and then I was going to head home. Total ramp time of no more than 3 hours.

Well, the F1 race is this weekend (who knew?). Apparently every FBO at the big airport and the FBO at Executive all have serious fees for any aircraft that touches their ramps. Austin Executive on the north side is my normal go-to when going to Austin. As it turns out, they are the cheapest at $1000 for any aircraft. I explained that I just wanted to drop in for lunch on Friday and would be right back out. NOPE! DENIED! Well, not denied, they would welcome me with open arms if I open my wallet to the tune of $1000. From October 17-20 the city of Austin is effectively closed to the average GA pilot. That's some real BS when these are supposed to be "public use" airports.

We've found an alternate meeting place that will require my brother to drive out of the city, but it's all good - there is barbecue involved.
 
pburger said:
I was planning a quick trip to Austin on Friday to have lunch with my brother and to drop a buddy off who is buying a truck from him. We were going to have a nice lunch and then I was going to head home. Total ramp time of no more than 3 hours.

Well, the F1 race is this weekend (who knew?). Apparently every FBO at the big airport and the FBO at Executive all have serious fees for any aircraft that touches their ramps. Austin Executive on the north side is my normal go-to when going to Austin. As it turns out, they are the cheapest at $1000 for any aircraft. I explained that I just wanted to drop in for lunch on Friday and would be right back out. NOPE! DENIED! Well, not denied, they would welcome me with open arms if I open my wallet to the tune of $1000. From October 17-20 the city of Austin is effectively closed to the average GA pilot. That's some real BS when these are supposed to be "public use" airports.

We've found an alternate meeting place that will require my brother to drive out of the city, but it's all good - there is barbecue involved.
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Similar thing happened when a buddy and I wanted to go to Las Vegas from Phoenix area, and then F1 took over the city and airport fees went nuts.

Its funny cuz I'd pay good money to NOT have to watch F1 racing.
 
It’s probably too late, but maybe someone hangared there would be willing to let you park in front of their hangar for a meal or beers? I know I would.
 
Even worse, track time is just about impossible to secure.
 
NavAir said:
Try getting ramp space on a football weekend at KCLL. Same thing. Luckily, I'm retired, so my flying schedule is...

flexible.
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I was there last weekend. Landed Thursday at dusk. I didn't think it was bad at all, nor did it seem crazy full when we left Sunday AM.
 
kyleb said:
I was there last weekend. Landed Thursday at dusk. I didn't think it was bad at all, nor did it seem crazy full when we left Sunday AM.
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It’s highly dependent on what other activities are going on along with the game and the visiting team of course. I’ve never been denied landing at Easterwood, but I have been limited to pick up/drop off with aircraft parked on 11/29. I think that was the A&M/Alabama game when Game Day was broadcasting and Manziel was on a tear, but it’s been so long since we’ve had an Aggie matriculating the details are fuzzy now.
 
[Update] Seems this is a private airport, in which case not much AOPA can do.
This is a massive AOPA failure.
Wish we had a representative organization that will fight tooth and nail for us.
 
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MountainDude said:
This is a massive AOPA failure.
Wish we had a representative organization that will fight tooth and nail for us.
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No, no it's not. It's an overall WIN for GA, with tons of private aircraft flying into airports and bringing big money from different parts of the country to the local airports. Every one of those jets is buying a ton of fuel and making it easier for the FBO to stay in business. I've been down for work related to the races and there's nothing inherently bad about all of this. The FBO’s also hire extra people to handle all of the extra traffic so there are legitimate extra costs that those fees cover.

We shut down airports for a weekend for airshows, too, and that's also good for the aviation community because it often causes a lot of young people to become interested in airplanes.

Your personal inconvenience for one weekend isn't a loss for GA in the big picture.
 
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I watch kaus for three events through the year; two are music, plus this one. My pax are flexible enough they can usually alter their trips.
 
MountainDude said:
This is a massive AOPA failure.
Wish we had a representative organization that will fight tooth and nail for us.
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If it was a public airport, maybe. This is a privately owned, public-use airport. They do what they want and they would prefer there was no small; planes at all. Their fuel is expensive and their hangar rates are very high... but they're full!
 
Which little guy airport are you talking about? I see several in that area.

I see a couple big guy airports also.
 
MountainDude said:
This is a massive AOPA failure.
Wish we had a representative organization that will fight tooth and nail for us.
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Follow the money. If it’s a non-Av entity causing the issue, they’d be all over it if it upped their image among their (potential and actual) subscribers. If it’s GA vs GA, the guys with the money to buy the big planes will win. They’ll lay low.
 
Sam Marcus KHYI just south of Austin is your answer. Great Class D airport with tons of FREE ramp space and great fuel prices.

My wife and I flew down to Austin last year during F1 and UT - Georgia game weekend. We flew down to babysit our 1 year old granddaughter. We had no idea it was F1 and a big UT football weekend, but I did notice that I was being vectored alot getting into the area.

Anyway, we landed and taxied to the FBO and knew something was going on because the ramp was covered with airplanes. The line guy asked us when we shut down if we were here for F1 or the football game and I said neither - "we are here to babysit".

Zero ramp or landing fees. Great airport.
 
pburger said:
We've found an alternate meeting place that will require my brother to drive out of the city, but it's all good - there is barbecue involved.
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Sounds like you've already made plans, but did you consider Georgetown (and was it any more welcoming this weekend)? I-35 can be a pain during rush hour (well, really, during any hour), but if your brother's on the north side of Austin it's within striking distance. There are lots of good places nearby to have a meal...downtown Georgetown has several, and there's a great German place in Walburg that's only a few more minutes away.

I sometimes fly in to Austin for football weekends and usually use Georgetown. My buddy who lives near Mopac @ 183 doesn't mind picking me up.
 
Llewtrah381 said:
Follow the money. If it’s a non-Av entity causing the issue, they’d be all over it if it upped their image among their (potential and actual) subscribers. If it’s GA vs GA, the guys with the money to buy the big planes will win. They’ll lay low.
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In the case of Austin Executive, it's a business and they make a lot more money off of the jets. For those who aren't from the Austin area, this was Bird's Nest airport. A rundown airport with a crappy grass runway that rattled your teeth when you landed on it. There was no fuel, no services, and only a few planes based there that actually flew.

Ron Henriksen, who also built Houston Executive, bought the field, built a brand new 6000' runway, a terminal, and a lot of hangars. Like it or not, nobody else spent millions of dollars to save a dying airport. If not for Ron, it would most likely be a subdivision by now.
 
I see these types of complaints anytime a city's airports are getting inundated with traffic due to some large event going on, usually a major sporting event.

The FBOs and Airports have limited capacity to handle all the traffic during these big events. What would you rather they do about it?

If it was your business, and you only had capacity to handle 100 aircraft, would you prefer to have 100 jets buying 500-1000 gallons each, or 100 Cherokees buying 20 gallons each.

Honestly, show me your alternative.
 
Currently schlepping it with the masses in route to Austin via air carrier for cousin’s wedding. Turo arranged instead of Enterprise or other useless rental car agency (see other thread). What’s the word on KRYW? Staying nearby in Lago Vista and might get bored….
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
What’s the word on KRYW? Staying nearby in Lago Vista and might get bored….
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I like it, but I like pretty much all airports! It's worth driving up to check it out. When I say up, it's way up on top of a hill. When you're driving back down, you'll have a pretty neat view of Lake Travis. As far as the airport, it's all private hangars with about half of them being homes.
 
Lowflynjack said:
I like it, but I like pretty much all airports! It's worth driving up to check it out. When I say up, it's way up on top of a hill. When you're driving back down, you'll have a pretty neat view of Lake Travis. As far as the airport, it's all private hangars with about half of them being homes.
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Ah, did not realize it was private. I see a lot for sale ($$$)

www.zillow.com

218 Flightline Rd #7, Leander, TX 78645 | MLS #5189622 | Zillow

This is a Vacant Land. It is located at 218 Flightline Rd #7, Leander, TX.
www.zillow.com www.zillow.com
 
pburger said:
I was planning a quick trip to Austin on Friday to have lunch with my brother and to drop a buddy off who is buying a truck from him. We were going to have a nice lunch and then I was going to head home. Total ramp time of no more than 3 hours.

Well, the F1 race is this weekend (who knew?). Apparently every FBO at the big airport and the FBO at Executive all have serious fees for any aircraft that touches their ramps. Austin Executive on the north side is my normal go-to when going to Austin. As it turns out, they are the cheapest at $1000 for any aircraft. I explained that I just wanted to drop in for lunch on Friday and would be right back out. NOPE! DENIED! Well, not denied, they would welcome me with open arms if I open my wallet to the tune of $1000. From October 17-20 the city of Austin is effectively closed to the average GA pilot. That's some real BS when these are supposed to be "public use" airports.

We've found an alternate meeting place that will require my brother to drive out of the city, but it's all good - there is barbecue involved.
Click to expand...

That is called supply and demand. When did we suddenly become an entitled class?

Tim
 
A number of years ago I had an AUS trip on my line. When I was reviewing the dispatch release, I noticed that the dispatcher had a note about an ATC ground delay program being in effect. You don't normally get those for an airport like AUS. I was unaware of the F1 race in Austin at the time. When we arrived, there were what seemed like 100 business jets on the ground, all trying to leave. Others arriving were being told that the FBO's were all out of ramp space and they'd have to hold on a remote pad waiting for space to open up. ATC had kept the west runway for airline traffic, and was using the east runway for everything else, which at least allowed us to operate without any significant delay. The corporate pilots weren't happy about not have any options.

The purpose of money is to allocate scarce resources. During an event like this, demand far outpaces the infrastructure's capacity. The high fees allocate those resources to those who are most willing to pay. It isn't a perfect system but it's better than any other that I've ever heard of.
 
Larry in TN said:
A number of years ago I had an AUS trip on my line. When I was reviewing the dispatch release, I noticed that the dispatcher had a note about an ATC ground delay program being in effect. You don't normally get those for an airport like AUS. I was unaware of the F1 race in Austin at the time. When we arrived, there were what seemed like 100 business jets on the ground, all trying to leave. Others arriving were being told that the FBO's were all out of ramp space and they'd have to hold on a remote pad waiting for space to open up. ATC had kept the west runway for airline traffic, and was using the east runway for everything else, which at least allowed us to operate without any significant delay. The corporate pilots weren't happy about not have any options.

The purpose of money is to allocate scarce resources. During an event like this, demand far outpaces the infrastructure's capacity. The high fees allocate those resources to those who are most willing to pay. It isn't a perfect system but it's better than any other that I've ever heard of.
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Unless the airport is large enough to have slot reservations, I disagree with the airlines being given preferential treatment. ATC is supposed to treat everyone the same, most of the time it feels like lip service, but blatant priority for the airlines here is bad form.

Tim
 
tspear said:
Unless the airport is large enough to have slot reservations, I disagree with the airlines being given preferential treatment. ATC is supposed to treat everyone the same, most of the time it feels like lip service, but blatant priority for the airlines here is bad form.

Tim
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Two runways. Putting scheduled air carrier on one and GA on the other is not "preferential", it's a necessity.

Passenger and cargo carriers operate on a time table. If the arrival and departures are greatly affected it dominoes down the line for them creating an even bigger schedule problem. For on time delivery cargo it can mean the loss of hundreds of thousands of dollars.
 
Doc Holliday said:
Two runways. Putting scheduled air carrier on one and GA on the other is not "preferential", it's a necessity.

Passenger and cargo carriers operate on a time table. If the arrival and departures are greatly affected it dominoes down the line for them creating an even bigger schedule problem. For on time delivery cargo it can mean the loss of hundreds of thousands of dollars.
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FAA ATC is supposed to be first come first served. Having a dedicated runway for airlines, and making all the business jets over on the other runway wait, is not treating all customers equally. The FAA is not, and should not be concerned about the cargo carriers and airlines losing money because they suddenly have a departure delay. This is very bad optics and the NBAA should be all over the AUS tower. It also looks bad for the FBOs. If AUS tower wanted to avoid the issue, they could have created a timeslot reservation system, and the regular carriers would obviously have made such reservations and been accommodated first; the business jets then would have known to expect delays and when they could expect to take off.

Tim
 
TCABM said:
Haven’t heard that name in a long time. Do you remember Tim’s Airpark? It was off what’s now the Parmer extension at I-35.
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Yep. It was renamed to Executive Airpark, then Michael Dell bought it and closed it down. I heard they refused to sell it to him because they knew he'd close it, so he had his father-in-law buy it instead. Who knows if that was true or just a rumor?! There are still a few of the old hangars there.
 
tspear said:
FAA ATC is supposed to be first come first served. Having a dedicated runway for airlines, and making all the business jets over on the other runway wait, is not treating all customers equally. The FAA is not, and should not be concerned about the cargo carriers and airlines losing money because they suddenly have a departure delay. This is very bad optics and the NBAA should be all over the AUS tower. It also looks bad for the FBOs. If AUS tower wanted to avoid the issue, they could have created a timeslot reservation system, and the regular carriers would obviously have made such reservations and been accommodated first; the business jets then would have known to expect delays and when they could expect to take off.

Tim
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They can't win no matter what they do! I remember local corporate pilots whining because they had to taxi all the way to the other runway. The reason AUS puts most business jets, or any GA traffic, on 18L - 36R is because that's where all of the FBOs and hangars are.
Screenshot 2025-10-16 at 9.27.50 AM.png
 
tspear said:
FAA ATC is supposed to be first come first served. Having a dedicated runway for airlines, and making all the business jets over on the other runway wait, is not treating all customers equally. The FAA is not, and should not be concerned about the cargo carriers and airlines losing money because they suddenly have a departure delay. This is very bad optics and the NBAA should be all over the AUS tower.
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When you read the NOTAM when these events are scheduled they specifically call out procedures for scheduled and non scheduled operators, it's no secret nor anything nefarious. The non skeds know going in or coming out to expect delays due to traffic volume. The NBAA is fully aware of this, and what would their argument be?

tspear said:
It also looks bad for the FBOs.
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The FBO's deal with available space problems. Sometimes the airport will close unused taxiways or open up low use ramp space and provide transportation, fueling and logistics for inbound aircraft. Yes, they require reservations and those are based upon space. Once all space is taken, that's it.

When I flew into SDF last time during the Kentucky Derby they closed a runway and several taxiways and allotted spaces for the business jets. The FBO had set up a lot of rental vans to transport passengers and crews and had to staff up for a very high fuel demand, essentially working around the clock so that meant bringing in more workers to accommodate.

tspear said:
If AUS tower wanted to avoid the issue, they could have created a timeslot reservation system, and the regular carriers would obviously have made such reservations and been accommodated first
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The big events I've flown into did have time slots, first come first served. For those wanting flexibility and filed the day of or last minute, they found out that their flight plan was on EDC and ATC would assign their departure. This is covered in the NOTAM.

The scheduled air carriers are known well in advance as their schedules are published, so that part is already handled.

tspear said:
; the business jets then would have known to expect delays and when they could expect to take off.

Tim
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Again, this is already covered. The departures have to be handled by ATC flow control so not to over saturate terminal airspace.
 
pburger said:
ding ding ding! right on both the airport and the BBQ!!
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I'd go to Smitty's or Kreuz or Black's before Terry Black's. JMHO, but going to barbecue mecca and passing up the founding fathers for a chain seems like a miss.
 
Lowflynjack said:
Yep. It was renamed to Executive Airpark, then Michael Dell bought it and closed it down. I heard they refused to sell it to him because they knew he'd close it, so he had his father-in-law buy it instead. Who knows if that was true or just a rumor?! There are still a few of the old hangars there.
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The school bus I rode to Pflugerville went by it everyday. I can remember a handful of Metroliners being parked on the ramp and wondering how they could get into that short little strip. What little I knew back then.

I believe Castleberry Instruments operated out of there for a while before they moved over to a place on 1825. I think they’ve since moved again. Funny the things the mind remembers.
 
Lindberg said:
I'd go to Smitty's or Kreuz or Black's before Terry Black's. JMHO, but going to barbecue mecca and passing up the founding fathers for a chain seems like a miss.
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Terry used to be part of Black’s before a family dispute. I prefer Kreuz over both, but both Black’s and Terry Black’s are good, too.
 
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