Circling in lieu of missed approach?

stratobee

stratobee

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stratobee
I should know this as an IFR pilot, but I don't.

Let's say I'm on an ILS/VOR/GPS approach. I break out, let's just say for the sake of argument at 1000ft. But due to traffic or something on the ground, I have to execute a missed. Rather than go back up into the soup, can I now do a circling approach at 1000ft - if the published mininas allow it - in lieu of a MA?
 
stratobee said:
I should know this as an IFR pilot, but I don't.

Let's say I'm on an ILS/VOR/GPS approach. I break out, let's just say for the sake of argument at 1000ft. But due to traffic or something on the ground, I have to execute a missed. Rather than go back up into the soup, can I now do a circling approach at 1000ft - if the published mininas allow it - in lieu of a MA?
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:popcorn:

I'm not IR but is sound to me like you could. Should you is another story.
 
I did it just this weekend, although at a towered airport. There was a hell of a crosswind, I had the rudder on the floor and she still wasn't straight, so I went around. The tower asked me my intentions. I told him closed traffic for another attempt, and he had me sqwak VFR.

Uncontrolled I would just call approach and cancel if I were VMC. IMC I'm flying the missed.


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stratobee said:
Let's say I'm on an ILS/VOR/GPS approach. I break out, let's just say for the sake of argument at 1000ft. But due to traffic or something on the ground, I have to execute a missed. Rather than go back up into the soup, can I now do a circling approach at 1000ft - if the published mininas allow it - in lieu of a MA?
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Affirmative.
 
Ok, let's assume there is no circling approach published, the ceiling is at 700ft and I can't comply with the above 1000ft over built up areas rule?
 
stratobee said:
Ok, let's assume there is no circling approach published, the ceiling is at 700ft and I can't comply with the above 1000ft over built up areas rule?
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No such rule exists if you are maneuvering with the intent to land.
 
frfly172 said:
At 1000 ft you should be VFR.
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You may be VMC, but you are still IFR. Regardless, you can maneuver and land, controlling the plane by uninterrupted reference to the ground so you can make whatever visual approach you want under IFR while maintaining visual operation.

The Rule you operate under and the Condition you operate under vis a vis Instrument or Visual, are not always one and the same.
 
Henning said:
You may be VMC, but you are still IFR. Regardless, you can maneuver and land, controlling the plane by uninterrupted reference to the ground so you can make whatever visual approach you want under IFR while maintaining visual operation.

The Rule you operate under and the Condition you operate under vis a vis Instrument or Visual, are not always one and the same.
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Yep, until you cancel your IFR plan you're still IFR. You can circle to land.
 
rbridges said:
but isn't that Class G airspace? 700-1200 ft above the ground at uncontrolled airports?
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No, 1000' AGL above an uncontrolled airport will be controlled airspace. The floor of controlled airspace above airports with IAPs must be no higher than 700' AGL.
 
roncachamp said:
No, 1000' AGL above an uncontrolled airport will be controlled airspace. The floor of controlled airspace above airports with IAPs must be no higher than 700' AGL.
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Don't most ILSs such as the OPs question have E to the surface?
 
JeffDG said:
Don't most ILSs such as the OPs question have E to the surface?
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I doubt it, but that's beside the point. If you find Class G airspace at 1000' AGL over an airport with an IAP it means somebody really screwed up.
 
roncachamp said:
I doubt it, but that's beside the point. If you find Class G airspace at 1000' AGL over an airport with an IAP it means somebody really screwed up.
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For a while, there was an airport in Montana that had a new RNAV approach, and was G to 14,500'. They fixed it after a bit, but it was there a while!
 
JeffDG said:
For a while, there was an airport in Montana that had a new RNAV approach, and was G to 14,500'. They fixed it after a bit, but it was there a while!
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If you're referring to Sher-Wood, it was I that notified the feds of the error.
 
JeffDG said:
And I think I posted the thread that tipped you off!
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Maybe. As I recall there was a discussion involving another airport or approach. While examining the enroute chart on that issue I noticed a green airport symbol in a sea of brown, KPWD.
 
An ILS without a localizer option will not have circling minimums. Assuming a localizer option and circling minimums, you have to follow the localizer procedure to determine the MAP. The circling MDA would apply. At a towered airport you need to get a clearance to circle. As long as you did not descend below the circling MDA until in a position for a normal descent to the runway, the required flight visibility was available, and you remained clear of clouds, you could circle to land. Although the conditions might not permit VFR flight below the clouds because of visibility or separation requirements, when you are circling to land it is an IFR procedure conducted in visual conditions.
 
Glad John added his comments. I think the point is, you are cleared for an approach, not what you do once you reach minimums. If the chat has curling minimums you are entitled to use them and there's no rule I'm aware of that says your first landing attempt is your only shot. Class D only adds a small wrinkle.
 
John Collins said:
An ILS without a localizer option will not have circling minimums. Assuming a localizer option and circling minimums, you have to follow the localizer procedure to determine the MAP. The circling MDA would apply. At a towered airport you need to get a clearance to circle. As long as you did not descend below the circling MDA until in a position for a normal descent to the runway, the required flight visibility was available, and you remained clear of clouds, you could circle to land. Although the conditions might not permit VFR flight below the clouds because of visibility or separation requirements, when you are circling to land it is an IFR procedure conducted in visual conditions.
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Do you have the option to circle and maneuver in a Contact Approach?
 
If you're at a tower-controlled airport, you don't circle without clearance to do so from Tower. At a non-towered airport, it's up to you. However, in either case, you must be above circling MDA before deviating from the final approach course/missed approach track, and that may require a climb from the straight-in MDA.

Cancelling IFR is generally not an option if you had to fly the approach down that low because you're probably still in controlled airspace but not 500 below the overlying deck, and if the weather is less 1000-3 where there's controlled airspace to the surface, cancelling IFR is not an option at all (see 91.155(c/d)).
 
stratobee said:
Ok, let's assume there is no circling approach published, the ceiling is at 700ft and I can't comply with the above 1000ft over built up areas rule?
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I've never seen an approach with no circling mins. However, the 1000-foot rule does not apply for operations down to published MDA when cloud bases require circling at less than 1000 AGL.
 
Henning said:
No such rule exists if you are maneuvering with the intent to land.
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There certainly is if flight that low is not necessary to land. Do a circling approach at 400 AGL on a clear day over a congested area, and you are in violation of 91.119. Those minimum altitudes apply until it is necessary to land, and if it's clear and a million, it's not necessary to descend below 1000 AGL over a congested area until passing the abeam position.
 
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rbridges said:
but isn't that Class G airspace? 700-1200 ft above the ground at uncontrolled airports?
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You won't find 1200 AGL base E-space where there's an instrument approach. However, assuming no controlled airspace to the surface, you can cancel IFR below 700 AGL with 1 mile vis and clear of clouds. Of course, you must still stay above the 91.119 minimum altitudes until "necessary" to land.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Glad John added his comments. I think the point is, you are cleared for an approach, not what you do once you reach minimums.

If the chat has curling minimums you are entitled to use them
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That's true for nontowered airports, but not at towered airports where there's no circling without Tower permission.
 
Henning said:
Do you have the option to circle and maneuver in a Contact Approach?
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At a nontowered airport, you can circle or maneuver any way you like for any runway you choose. At a tower controlled airport, you must have Tower's approval to do anything other than what they originally cleared you to do. So if they said, "Cessna 123, cleared to maneuver as desired, cleared to land on any runway", you could do that, but otherwise, you'd have to get a revised landing clearance to circle to another runway even once cleared for a contact approach.
 
roncachamp said:
No, 1000' AGL above an uncontrolled airport will be controlled airspace. The floor of controlled airspace above airports with IAPs must be no higher than 700' AGL.
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I've flown an ILS to a towered airport where the floor of controlled airspace was FL245. Of course, that was out in the middle of the Indian Ocean. FJDG.
 
At a towered airport they will ask you if you want to cancel IFR and do a VFR pattern, or go back to approach. This is after a go-around following a visual approach in clear weather. Seemed like a silly question but I guess they had to ask.
 
stratobee said:
I should know this as an IFR pilot, but I don't.

Let's say I'm on an ILS/VOR/GPS approach. I break out, let's just say for the sake of argument at 1000ft. But due to traffic or something on the ground, I have to execute a missed. Rather than go back up into the soup, can I now do a circling approach at 1000ft - if the published mininas allow it - in lieu of a MA?
Click to expand...
Yes :)
 
John Collins said:
Not according to the FAA General Counsel, all turns have to be in the direction of the pattern IAW 91.126.
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That's correct. However, my experience and discussions tell me that for safety reasons, Flight Standards doesn't enforce that interpretation. Further, that interpretation creates the absurd situation where at some airports, you cannot land off the approach because it's circling only, and circling in the pattern direction contradicts a "Circling [direction] of the runway NA" restriction. See KXLL VOR-B for an example.

And I'd like to strangle whoever asked them for that stupid interpretation.
 
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