Chinese boom in GA Market & Development

NordicDave

NordicDave

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Many of us are familiar with Chinese interest in general aviation investments with the purchase of Continental, Cirrus, Mooney, etc.

They are cloning several GA aircraft like the Scoata Trinidad and Tobago.

Below is a Trinidad locally named Shijiazhuang LE-500 Little Eagle:
1255850446043_1255850446043_r.jpg


Interesting read from Avweb regarding the Chinese government putting focus on growing teh GA industry there. Wish our government was 1/2 as interested.

https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/china-ga-growing-slowly/
 
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So... I wonder if the American market - as hot as it is for GA aircraft right now - will soon see a Chinese branded plane, perhaps similar to the Archer, Skyhawk or Skylane? They already own Cirrus, so no need for another higher end brand.
 
WDD said:
So... I wonder if the American market - as hot as it is for GA aircraft right now - will soon see a Chinese branded plane, perhaps similar to the Archer, Skyhawk or Skylane? They already own Cirrus, so no need for another higher end brand.
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Betting they wouldn't want the scrutiny of Western certification process, issues with IP copying, plus sparking up more trade war issues cannibalizing one of our few remaining manufacturing industries.
 
2913 aircraft flying in the entire country. That's pretty crazy in a country with 1.4 billion people.
 
WDD said:
So... I wonder if the American market - as hot as it is for GA aircraft right now - will soon see a Chinese branded plane, perhaps similar to the Archer, Skyhawk or Skylane? They already own Cirrus, so no need for another higher end brand.
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I wouldn't drive a car made in china. Let alone an airplane. Cirrus and others were still made here. Ive bought enough chinesium to know to avoid it whenever possible
 
Just wait until we start seeing discount Chinese made cloned parts for our airframes, engines and props...
 
If the Chinese follow past patterns.... after cloning to train and educate a workforce to stand-up an industry they will start to make their own designs.

They are building near clones of F-35's (wonder where the engineering came from?) and won't be long before their high end military links together with their GA efforts completing a new industry to compete with the West.
 
But, isn't the best way to make a small fortune in aviation is to start with a large one?

If so, then the Chinese will manage to bankrupt themselves if they get too far into the aviation markert....
 
Pretty much everything they make is inferior to the products they clone. That goes for aircraft, tanks, weapons, cars, motorcycles, etc.
 
Racerx said:
I wouldn't drive a car made in china. Let alone an airplane. Cirrus and others were still made here. Ive bought enough chinesium to know to avoid it whenever possible
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Seen a Buick Envision lately?

Built in Jinqiao (new generation Envision); the prior-generation Envision was built in Dongyue (and sold here since 2015).
 
Bob Noel said:
But, isn't the best way to make a small fortune in aviation is to start with a large one?

If so, then the Chinese will manage to bankrupt themselves if they get too far into the aviation markert....
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The revenue from Alibaba Singles day this year was more than the combined revenue of: Cessna, Beechcraft, Cirrus, Piper and Diamond... over the last 10 years.

I think they'll live.
 
NoHeat said:
“... 2913 non-airline and non-military aircraft flying in the country”

I wonder where they fly.

A couple of years ago I read that there was no airspace, and no rules, that allow personal flying.
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Isn’t communism wonderful? Shocking how many people in this country support it.
 
So pretty soon we’ll be buying our parts from Walmart.
 
GRG55 said:
Just wait until we start seeing discount Chinese made cloned parts for our airframes, engines and props...
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FWIW Continental holds all the PMAs that ECI had. Continental already builds FAA approved Lycoming clones. (Continental owned by a Chinese parent company)
 
NordicDave said:
Isn’t communism wonderful? Shocking how many people in this country support it.
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If you said "totalitarianism", you would be more correct.
China is certainly capitalist-
Evidenced by this statement below, Alibaba isn't a government company
deonb said:
The revenue from Alibaba Singles day this year was more than the combined revenue of: Cessna, Beechcraft, Cirrus, Piper and Diamond... over the last 10 years.

I think they'll live.
Click to expand...
 
I sold my 1946 J-3 cub with 1320 floats delivered it to KAWO they took the wings off put it in a shipping container and it went to China.
 
Cap'n Jack said:
If you said "totalitarianism", you would be more correct.
China is certainly capitalist-
Evidenced by this statement below, Alibaba isn't a government company
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LOL. Sure. Just like Huawei "isn't a government company".

There is no such thing as a company of any substance that isn't ultimately a "government company" in China.

From the WSJ 6 hours ago. For those that may not know, Jack Ma is also the co-founder of Alibaba.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-president-xi-jinping-halted-jack-ma-ant-ipo-11605203556
China’s President Xi Jinping Personally Scuttled Jack Ma’s Ant IPO
 
GRG55 said:
LOL. Sure. Just like Huawei "isn't a government company".

There is no such thing as a company of any substance that isn't ultimately a "government company" in China.

From the WSJ 6 hours ago. For those that may not know, Jack Ma is also the co-founder of Alibaba.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-president-xi-jinping-halted-jack-ma-ant-ipo-11605203556
China’s President Xi Jinping Personally Scuttled Jack Ma’s Ant IPO
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You are confusing communism with government control.
 
I don’t think they really care to allow GA flying. Everything we have seen so far indicates very limited access to ga.
 
The CCP Chinese Communist Party runs everything. Companies that look independent with publicly traded stock are still partially owned by the government. They have merely relented some centralized control in the "great experiment" for managing their economy.
 
NordicDave said:
The CCP Chinese Communist Party runs everything. Companies that look independent with publicly traded stock are still partially owned by the government. They have merely relented some centralized control in the "great experiment" for managing their economy.
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China is not a communist country by any measure (other than the ruling party name). In fact there was never a true communist country on Earth. Nope, USSR wasn’t communist either. Communism was a pipe dream, utopia that was sold to the masses, but obviously never came to life.

China is very capitalist, it’s just the government has a tight control over everything important. But there is money, there is market and private property.

It’s amazing how many people use the word “communism” without knowing what it actually means.
 
EugeneR said:
China is not a communist country by any measure (other than the ruling party name). In fact there was never a true communist country on Earth. Nope, USSR wasn’t communist either. Communism was a pipe dream, utopia that was sold to the masses, but obviously never came to life.

China is very capitalist, it’s just the government has a tight control over everything important. But there is money, there is market and private property.

It’s amazing how many people use the word “communism” without knowing what it actually means.
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In fact the Gini coefficient (measure of income inequality) of China is pretty close to the US. 0.465 in China compared to 0.48 in the US.

(Perfect equality would be 0. One person having all the wealth in a country would be 1.0.). Cuba at some point was at 0.2. Russia is now at 0.88. Most of Europe is in the 0.3x range.

China has 878 billionaires and 4.4 million millionaires. Compared to 540 billionaires and 18 million millionaires in the US.

There's a saying in the CCP that "We'll do whatever works for us and call it communism". At least there's a saying that there's a saying in the CCP that "We'll do whatever works for us and call it communism"...
 
GRG55 said:
There's no confusion on my part. Be assured.
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I'm going to mention your own citation. Communists don't have IPOs. communists don't have private stock ownership in companies. Look at @deonb 's post- I was going to point to the number of wealthy people in china. That isn't a hallmark of communism. How are you defining communism?
NordicDave said:
The CCP Chinese Communist Party runs everything. Companies that look independent with publicly traded stock are still partially owned by the government. They have merely relented some centralized control in the "great experiment" for managing their economy.
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Yes, some of the companies have government investment or are state owned. But not nearly all of them. Some Chinese companies are listed in western stock exchanges (link 1 below, the state-owned companies are marked with asterisks).

The Chinese economic model is actually closer to that of a fascist country.
Fascists advocate a mixed economy, with the principal goal of achieving autarky (national economic self-sufficiency) through protectionist and interventionist economic policies.
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(link 2). The Chinese, as mentioned earlier in the thread, call themselves "communist" but that sentence I quoted surely describes their current policies. Mix in their form of government, and it looks very close to what we may describe as a fascist state.

[1] https://www.uscc.gov/sites/default/files/2020-10/Chinese_Companies_on_US_Stock_Exchanges_10-2020.pdf
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism
 
deonb said:
In fact the Gini coefficient (measure of income inequality) of China is pretty close to the US. 0.465 in China compared to 0.48 in the US.

(Perfect equality would be 0. One person having all the wealth in a country would be 1.0.). Cuba at some point was at 0.2. Russia is now at 0.88. Most of Europe is in the 0.3x range.

China has 878 billionaires and 4.4 million millionaires. Compared to 540 billionaires and 18 million millionaires in the US.

There's a saying in the CCP that "We'll do whatever works for us and call it communism". At least there's a saying that there's a saying in the CCP that "We'll do whatever works for us and call it communism"...
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I spent 3.5 years in Asia working out of China and Singapore fora big multi-national. Being there different. It's not a benign country nor as rosy as the number indicate above. My apartment building was one of the most lux in town as no one was allowed to have electric dryers unless you had a party relationship. I could go on.
 
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NordicDave said:
I spent 3.5 years in Asia working our of China and Singapore fora big multi-national. Being there different. It's not a benign country nor as rosy as the number indicate above. My apartment building was one of the most lux in town as no one was allowed to have electric dryers unless you had a party relationship. I could go on.
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Things have changed. I was working in China as recently as last November and December. The average chemist there gets such things now, if they choose to buy them. When it is safe to travel, I'm likely to be there again. I'm also in regular contact with people there, even now.
 
NordicDave said:
Isn’t communism wonderful? Shocking how many people in this country support it.
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Are there really that many people? Wikipedia reckons there's somewhere between 5000 and 10000 people in the US Communist party.

I feel like communism is a word that people like to throw at anything slightly left of center, like socialized healthcare, which is an entirely unremarkable idea in many other countries.
 
CaptainXap said:
Are there really that many people? Wikipedia reckons there's somewhere between 5000 and 10000 people in the US Communist party.

I feel like communism is a word that people like to throw at anything slightly left of center, like socialized healthcare, which is an entirely unremarkable idea in many other countries.
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You have to be in the party to be part of the power structure.

The party controls everything. Nearly all information. Who believes they have only 92K Covid cases? https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-e&q=china+covid+19+cases
 
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NordicDave said:
You have to be in the party to be part of the power structure.

The party controls everything. Nearly all information. Who believes they have only 92K Covid cases? https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-e&q=china+covid+19+cases
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I was really talking about communism in the US. You said it was shocking how many people support it, and I was wondering aloud if it was really that many people. I was also noting how often the term 'communism' gets applied to even only slightly left-wing things.
 
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