Checklist Ideas?

Trapper John said:
The way you are proposing (before takeoff check) pretty much only works on aircraft with a rear window.
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You can check elevator and rudder movement by looking at the aircraft's shadow on the ground. This isn't a complete fix, but it does help.
 
jmaynard said:
You can check elevator and rudder movement by looking at the aircraft's shadow on the ground. This isn't a complete fix, but it does help.
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LOL

Kind of hard to do that at night or on an overcast day.

Yes, I did see the qualifier. :D
 
Free and correct for me works like this:

Grab the aileron, move it up and say "Towards me!" and I check to see which way the yoke moves.

Then I do the opposite and say "Away from me!" and I check to see which way the yoke moves.

For the elevator, I check that it is free, and then during taxi, I move the yoke front and back and check for the small amount of bounce it gives.

I don't need a checklist to do it. lol.
 
midlifeflyer said:
I do a "secure attachment" and "Free & Correct" check during the preflight inspection, so I don't see the difference you do. Part of my aileron and elevator preflight includes moving the surfaces and looking for the correct indications on the yoke and on the opposite aileron.

(back to the topic of personal checklists...) My "free and correct" inside-the-airplane checklist item appears before engine start. It's part of putting on my seatbelt, adjusting my seat, strapping on the kneeboard-du-jour (if I'm using one that day) and making sure that everything moves freely - more to do at that point with bumping my leg with the yoke than with the binding of the controls.

I do have a before-takeoff "free and correct" check as an SOP, but it's more of a quick confirmation of the earlier check which is itself partially a confirmation of the "free and correct" movement I do during the pre-flight walk-around.
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Both are done with me but I was wondering what he was referring to.
 
jmaynard said:
You can check elevator and rudder movement by looking at the aircraft's shadow on the ground. This isn't a complete fix, but it does help.
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Ya do what's possible. I simply stress what is needed to be accomplished. My greater concern is that it is not taken lightly like those whipping a stick around in a DA-20 without a clue what is happening on the control surfaces.
 
Thumbs up check with the yoke yields same result.

PS: You can think whatever you want to think and cite whatever you want to cite, but if you train at a place like the local part 142 center you're either going to use the check list or get a pink slip. Of if the Fed is observing and you don't get a pink slip the IP is going to get one.


SkyHog said:
Free and correct for me works like this:

Grab the aileron, move it up and say "Towards me!" and I check to see which way the yoke moves.

Then I do the opposite and say "Away from me!" and I check to see which way the yoke moves.

For the elevator, I check that it is free, and then during taxi, I move the yoke front and back and check for the small amount of bounce it gives.

I don't need a checklist to do it. lol.
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wabower said:
Thumbs up check with the yoke yields same result.
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That's how I learned to do it:

Pull into the runup area. Make sure you're not going to blast anyone behind you.
Pull the yoke/stick back. Look back at the elevator. Make sure it's up.
Push the yoke/stick forward. Look back at the elevator. Make sure it's down.
While you're looking back there, wiggle the rudder and make sure it moves toward the side you're pushing on. This may or may not do much, depending on the airplane, but you should see some movement.
Look left. Move the controls to the left. The left aileron should be up. (Your thumb on the controls points to the up aileron.)
Move the controls to the right. The left aileron should move down.
Look right. The right aileron should be up.
Move the controls to the left. The right aileron should move down.

It takes more time to describe than do, and it's an essential check: if it's wrong and you don't discover it before you take off, it'll kill you before you can figure out what's going on. It also uses up some time before the runup itself, which helps the engine get to minimum runup temperature on those cold mornings.
 
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The technique I learned (and use and teach) for checking free and correct is to push the yoke fully forward, then deflect completely to the right, then left, with thumbs up.

Pull it ALL the way back, and deflect completely left, then right.

If it's gonna bind, it will do so at the limits.
 
I just look at the ailerons for each input. I know which direction their supposed to be.
 
dmccormack said:
We know... but we mere mortals use helpful memory aids.

:rolleyes:
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Knowing which way the ailerons go without a memory aid doesn't make you immortal. I know how the wing works--therefore I know which way the controls go. I'm not a fan of memory aids--knowledge of the subject defeats it without having to memorize some aid.
 
jesse said:
Knowing which way the ailerons go without a memory aid doesn't make you immortal. I know how the wing works--therefore I know which way the controls go. I'm not a fan of memory aids--knowledge of the subject defeats it without having to memorize some aid.
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...and a good instructor knows his/her student, and adapts accordingly.

Some (many? most?) students need aids to help them visualize what to do and when. Thumbs up helps students see the link between aileron movement and yoke movement. Not all pilots have an innate sense of aerodynamic forces.

Also, those of us with military training know that simple memory aids help in times of extreme stress or exhaustion. (SPORTS, anyone?)

So GLIDE, GRASS, GAS may be helpful to even an experienced aviator in time of stress.
 
To each their own--the day I need a checklist or a memory aid to know which way the aileron needs to point is the day I will give up flying.
 
i always use ABC
Airspeed
Best pLace to Land
Checklist

i like it cause everyone learned ABC in kindergarten and you dont have to worry about getting it mixed up with ass grass and gas.
 
dmccormack said:
Then what does jesse do?

he don't have no steenkin' checklist
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he did all that stuff, he just doesnt require an acronym or a fun rhyme to remember it. i think it goes soemthing like this

1)engine quits
2) pilot thinks "well crap im going 110 kts, this isnt efficient"
3) pilot slows down to efficient glide speed
4) pilot thinks "well crap im going down, going to have to land"
5) pilot picks a field, preferably one where they can roll out near a house with a cute farmers daughter, or a bar. (c'mon he's a pilot)
6) pilot thinks "maybe i can get this thing to start again"
7) pilot decides screw it, he'll take his chances on the cute girl, or a cold beer

or something like that...:)
 
tonycondon said:
i like it cause everyone learned ABC in kindergarten and you dont have to worry about getting it mixed up with ass grass and gas.
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:rofl:

I would be sitting there thinking, "What was that saying about glass, grass and ass, oh forget that, what did ABC stand for?"

Who would really forget to go to best glide and pick a landing area. If anything, maybe you might want a memory aid for the troubleshooting steps (mixture, mags, fuel selector, etc.) that is if you didn't have time for the checklist.
 
tonycondon said:
he did all that stuff, he just doesnt require an acronym or a fun rhyme to remember it. i think it goes soemthing like this

1)engine quits
2) pilot thinks "well crap im going 110 kts, this isnt efficient"
3) pilot slows down to efficient glide speed
4) pilot thinks "well crap im going down, going to have to land"
5) pilot picks a field, preferably one where they can roll out near a house with a cute farmers daughter, or a bar. (c'mon he's a pilot)
6) pilot thinks "maybe i can get this thing to start again"
7) pilot decides screw it, he'll take his chances on the cute girl, or a cold beer

or something like that...:)
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Tony, you're using logic again. ;)

One correction, though. The field should have a bar with cute farmers daughters, not either/or. :)
 
jesse said:
To each their own--the day I need a checklist or a memory aid to know which way the aileron needs to point is the day I will give up flying.
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Damn Jesse....be careful man, your posts seem to be going from "enthusiastic student" to "enthusiastic pilot seeking knowledge and sharing advice" to "know it all who thinks everyone else is stupid and doing it wrong".
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Tony, you're using logic again. ;)

One correction, though. The field should have a bar with cute farmers daughters, not either/or. :)
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Farmer's daughter story (all true!)

I was far from home at Air Force Nuclear Weapons Technical Training when my girlfriend broke up with me over the phone.

I called home all distraught when my mom told me to fear not -- they were now attending church with a family with not one but SIX daughters -- and they were farmers.

(My parents moved from industrial NJ to waaaaay upstate NY -- near Massena -- after I left for Basic).

I asked to say hi to my then 12 year old sister (She'd have better intel).

"Yeah, they're really nice. Some are a little -- chunky."

I put the chunky comment aside as little sister lack of appreciation for the female form. Images of hay mounds and cavorting through buttercup fields sustained me until The Day when blessed leave began.

After 24 hours of non-stop travel and a grilling by Canadian Customs (another story) my Dad was waiting for me at the Montreal airport.

We drove back to "home" (I hadn't seen it yet). There were fewer and fewer houses, lights -- and more and more miles of wire fence and cows.

All I wanted was some rest.

My dad was happy to inform me we would stop by the [family name removed to protect the innocent] house before going home.

The idea of overalls and ponytails bouyed me in my sleepy stupor.

We pulled up the long dirt driveway, the fresh scent of cow barn lingering on the September evening air.

The door opened -- we walked in -- and sitting along either side of the long slab bench table were six of the largest young people I'd ever set my eyes upon. (on another day two of them came to babysit my younger brothers. When we drove them home, my dad's '77 AMC Ambassador was dragging the back muffler all the way to their house. My mom kept asking, "What's wrong with the car??" My dad and I said nothing and simply looked straight ahead).

I don't remember much after that -- my dreams of long blonde hair, dandelions, and sun-drench fields was replaced by the reality of enormous bowls of butter-soaked popcorn, hot dogs, and slabs of ice cream -- all served at the same time.

In the two weeks I spent on leave I was able to extricate myself and meet the pastor's daughter -- who was wearing overalls in church.

I thought, "That's the kind of pastor's daughter I wanna meet!"

27 years later we're still very happily married.
 
tdager said:
Damn Jesse....be careful man, your posts seem to be going from "enthusiastic student" to "enthusiastic pilot seeking knowledge and sharing advice" to "know it all who thinks everyone else is stupid and doing it wrong".
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There is nothing "know it all about it". I'm saying my opinion on the matter and you or others are choosing to be offended or disturbed by it. We're all free to establish how we fly. Personally--If I don't know the direction an aileron needs to point--I'm going to hang up my headset--as I've got a big issue.
 
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dmccormack said:
Farmer's daughter story (all true!)

I was far from home at Air Force Nuclear Weapons Technical Training when my girlfriend broke up with me over the phone.

I called home all distraught when my mom told me to fear not -- they were now attending church with a family with not one but SIX daughters -- and they were farmers.

(My parents moved from industrial NJ to waaaaay upstate NY -- near Massena -- after I left for Basic).

I asked to say hi to my then 12 year old sister (She'd have better intel).

"Yeah, they're really nice. Some are a little -- chunky."

I put the chunky comment aside as little sister lack of appreciation for the female form. Images of hay mounds and cavorting through buttercup fields sustained me until The Day when blessed leave began.

After 24 hours of non-stop travel and a grilling by Canadian Customs (another story) my Dad was waiting for me at the Montreal airport.

We drove back to "home" (I hadn't seen it yet). There were fewer and fewer houses, lights -- and more and more miles of wire fence and cows.

All I wanted was some rest.

My dad was happy to inform me we would stop by the [family name removed to protect the innocent] house before going home.

The idea of overalls and ponytails bouyed me in my sleepy stupor.

We pulled up the long dirt driveway, the fresh scent of cow barn lingering on the September evening air.

The door opened -- we walked in -- and sitting along either side of the long slab bench table were six of the largest young people I'd ever set my eyes upon. (on another day two of them came to babysit my younger brothers. When we drove them home, my dad's '77 AMC Ambassador was dragging the back muffler all the way to their house. My mom kept asking, "What's wrong with the car??" My dad and I said nothing and simply looked straight ahead).

I don't remember much after that -- my dreams of long blonde hair, dandelions, and sun-drench fields was replaced by the reality of enormous bowls of butter-soaked popcorn, hot dogs, and slabs of ice cream -- all served at the same time.

In the two weeks I spent on leave I was able to extricate myself and meet the pastor's daughter -- who was wearing overalls in church.

I thought, "That's the kind of pastor's daughter I wanna meet!"

27 years later we're still very happily married.
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How many of the fat girls did you run through first? ;)
 
jesse said:
There is nothing "know it all about it". I'm saying my opinion on the matter and you or others are choosing to be offended or disturbed by it. We're all free to establish how we fly. Personally--If I don't know the direction an airleron needs to point--I'm going to hang up my headset--as I've got a big issue.
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Fair enough. I guess it just seems that the more friendly, accommodating, jovial, always-learning-and teaching Jesse seems to have gone away a bit, that is all. *shrug*
 
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