Change of Pilot in Command, in flight

denverpilot

denverpilot

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For your consideration...

Regularly when there's the usual flamefests about logging time, there's usually at least one person who says somethijg similar to...

"As long as you determined who the acting as PIC is BEFORE you launched, they can log blah, and you can log blah, and this is legal blah..."

I'm just going to leave this here from FAR 91.1... because I'm a pain in the ass. LOL. See number 2.

"Pilot in command means the person who:

(1) Has final authority and responsibility for the operation and safety of the flight;

(2) Has been designated as pilot in command before or DURING the flight; and

(3) Holds the appropriate category, class, and type rating, if appropriate, for the conduct of the flight."

Emphasis added. Still think you need to choose prior to takeoff? ;-)

Stirring the pot... since... forever. Enjoy. :p
 
Ravioli said:
I find it best to wait for the FAA investigator to arrive on scene before deciding who was the PIC.
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LOL. See how angry he looks and guess whether he got called out from a nice dinner or a nap? :)
 
What if the PIC keels over during the flight? Can a dead guy be PIC?

What if the flight doesn't start on the ground (e.g. Space Ship One)?
 
The PIC is also the person who has been controlling the aircraft and doing the flying.
 
^^ the 121 guys and gals didn't even toss the hand grenade of three pilot crews on international flights where one is in the back sleeping? ;)
 
Greg Bockelman said:
In that case, Nate, there is only one pilot in command and remains so even in the bunk.
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Heh. I know. I thought that might blow the mind of the person who said the pilot in command was always the one flying. Heck, you can be PIC in your sleep if you work the right gig! Dozing for dollars! :)
 
If I am in the bunk sleeping and the other two do something that causes a violation etc. three guesses who gets the majority of the blame and the first two don't count.

Yes, we can and do switch "command" during a flight if the flight requires a full two crews ie. over 12 hours, or a situation of illness etc. but it requires contact with flight control and an "official" notation from them via ACARS and a notation in or a new log page.
 
denverpilot said:
Heh. I know. I thought that might blow the mind of the person who said the pilot in command was always the one flying. Heck, you can be PIC in your sleep if you work the right gig! Dozing for dollars! :)
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Heck, based on the rules above, you don't even need to be inside the aircraft to be PIC.
 
whattauser said:
Well, sure you can switch the PIC in flight, but who logs it?
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My friend and I did. Regularly for a few years. About once a month he and I would do an instrument currency flight. He would do a few approaches from the left seat, I would do mine from the right.

Assuming both of us were capable and authorized, our standing rule was, whoever can see out the window is the pilot in command. And we logged it accordingly.

And the logging included the most important part. It was done over beer and dinner.
 
I had a flight instructor who never got to fly singles anymore. He'd do my IPC/BFR on the condition that he got to fly a few landings. I offered to switch seats with him, but he was happy flying them from the right. It's hard to raise the gear on the Navion from the right side so I offered to do that (putting it down is fine). Tacit exchange of PIC status right there.

Any time you have more than one pilot in an aircraft, it behooves you to figure out which roles each are going to perform. As important as the "Your aircraft, I've got it" handshake is for actual physical control, knowing who is "ultimately responsible" is just as important.

Years ago, Ron Levy dropped his Tiger off up at Lancaster for avionics work and I gave him a ride back home. Hopping into the right seat he says "I can be a flight instructor, a copilot, or a passenger, but we're going to work that out now."
 
flyingron said:
I had a flight instructor who never got to fly singles anymore. He'd do my IPC/BFR on the condition that he got to fly a few landings. I offered to switch seats with him, but he was happy flying them from the right. It's hard to raise the gear on the Navion from the right side so I offered to do that (putting it down is fine). Tacit exchange of PIC status right there.
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A comment mostly for the benefit of those who still equate flying the airplane with being in command, it depends on which definition of "tacit" you are using. I know you understand the difference.

"Understood without being stated," yes. That's between the two of you. Like the rule between my friend and I, once we established the guideline, we never had to mention it again.

"Implied without being stated," no. Even when handed the controls for a leg and even on an instructional flight, I am, for example, never PIC in an owner/pilot's airplane without it being specifically stated at some point.
 
Are some people mixing up who is the PIC with who can log it? I've read a few posts on here that seemed to have beat that one to death and beyond.
 
DutchRoller said:
Are some people mixing up who is the PIC with who can log it? I've read a few posts on here that seemed to have beat that one to death and beyond.
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I saw one post that seemed to confuse being PIC with being the flying pilot but, no, I really haven't seen any posts that confused acting with logging.
 
So what if 2 pilots are on a flight from point a to b. Pilot 1 takes off at 500 ft activates autopilot. 1 hour straight line. Pilot 2 deactivates autopilot and lands. The entire enroute was VOR and no radio communications needed. Who logs what as pic?
 
TommyG said:
So what if 2 pilots are on a flight from point a to b. Pilot 1 takes off at 500 ft activates autopilot. 1 hour straight line. Pilot 2 deactivates autopilot and lands. The entire enroute was VOR and no radio communications needed. Who logs what as pic?
Click to expand...

Clearly in this case it is the VOR operator who logs PIC. :)

-Skip
 
TommyG said:
So what if 2 pilots are on a flight from point a to b. Pilot 1 takes off at 500 ft activates autopilot. 1 hour straight line. Pilot 2 deactivates autopilot and lands. The entire enroute was VOR and no radio communications needed. Who logs what as pic?
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Since nothing in your scenario tells us who was in charge of and in fact monitoring the autopilot to ensure it was always doing what it was supposed to, with the obligation and authority to override it, they will probably have to fight it out.

Or accept they were nothing but passengers while the autopilot was engaged and not log anything for their mutual nap time.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Since nothing in your scenario tells us who was in charge of and in fact monitoring the autopilot to ensure it was always doing what it was supposed to, with the obligation and authority to override it, they will probably have to fight it out.

Or accept they were nothing but passengers while the autopilot was engaged and not log anything for their mutual nap time.
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Someone had to program the VNAV.

And it's one hell of a bizarre flight that can be flown entirely on one VOR with no change in radial or interception procedures.

Sometimes you can tell who has never used a coupled autopilot....
 
Can you log chute time as PIC? You're no longer a piloted aircraft... ;-)
 
DutchRoller said:
You may be right and I might have read too much into these two posts.
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The first was an error a few discussed. I read the second as commentary on the choice whether lo log rather than the regs on who may log.

Of course, you could be right.
 
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