Cfi pay/liveable wages?

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Joffreyyy

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Joffreyyy
This probably varies flightschool to flightschool. But for the most part if you are a cfi can you live on that alone? (A place to live the bills etc..) how many hours do you work on average a week? What is an average hourly pay rate?
Do any flight schools offer salary instead of hourly pay if so common?

(Debating becoming a cfi or just keeping it as a hobby)

Thanks!
 
I'd say the average pay is 20-35 an hour unless you are an independent CFI. Some big flight schools like Transpac offer salaried CFI positions but most schools you only get paid if you have students. I don't live on my own but if you PM me I can share my payment info. This is my first full time month working as a CFI. People don't become instructors for the money, they do it because they love to teach
 
jordane93 said:
I'd say the average pay is 20-35 an hour unless you are an independent CFI. Some big flight schools like Transpac offer salaried CFI positions but most schools you only get paid if you have students. I don't live on my own but if you PM me I can share my payment info. This is my first full time month working as a CFI. People don't become instructors for the money, they do it because they love to teach
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I would love to teach but I fear I will not be able to support myself. I sent a PM
 
Define livable ? In 1993 I did it on about $700.00 bucks a month - but it wasn't pretty. Thing is even back then I KNEW that by putting one foot in front of another, getting up everyday and getting in an airplane with a student I would end up where I am now - flying a 777 for a major airline and seeing parts of the world most of the guys I grew up with will never see.

Thing is a HUGE number of folks don't have the vision, get hung up on the numbers and are just downright short-sighted. To them I say "Welcome to your cubicle".
 
A lot of the answer to that depends on what you consider a livable wage, and what your lifestyle is. I live in one of the most expensive areas of the country, own a home, several cars, a couple motorcycles and part of an airplane. I manage to do all of this on an income that most people would consider unlivable. Part of it is because I'm good at buying/selling and trading, and a lot has to do with the fact that I'm single with no kids and don't spend money on anything but what I need to and I keep the rest for my hobbies.

I have a lot of friends who make twice as much as I do, rent an apartment, drive an old used car, and are always broke. What's livable for me might not be livable for you. I have always lived on the "I'd rather be happy than wealthy" philosophy though.
 
Art VanDelay said:
Thing is even back then I KNEW that by putting one foot in front of another, getting up everyday and getting in an airplane with a student I would end up where I am now - flying a 777 for a major airline and seeing parts of the world most of the guys I grew up with will never see.
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I thought you were either an architect, or exporter/importer? Oh yeah, and a marine biologist.
 
I worked as an instructor from 96 to 98. I lived in my 1984 RV on the airport, no charge. I tied into the FBO Tv cable, no charge, I ate lunch at the small airport restaurant, no charge. I had no bills, no monthly bank payments, and was driving a 1972 chevy pickup. Not married and no kids.

I was making about $1600/mth and actually putting money in the bank. My only real expenses were gas and food. So yes, it was livable for me.....if you want to call that living.
 
OkieAviator said:
Are you able to get paid around 1920 hours a year?
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LA may be more expensive than OK, but it's not that expensive. You could easily live on half that, which divides out to about 20 hours a week which is doable judging by the hours my instructor puts in.
 
Even to make a living wage as a full time CFI, it can be done, but tough. I remember that I spent 12 hours a day at the airport to get 8 hours pay. I live in New York, so there would be full weeks of no flights due to weather. Summer, would have to cancel flights due to thunderstorms. Student cancellations will shrink your pay check. Then you have the days you are sick, where if you had a regular job you might still go in. But if you have a head cold, you probably won't be going up.

So if you can live within means, you can do it.
 
StinkBug said:
LA may be more expensive than OK, but it's not that expensive. You could easily live on half that, which divides out to about 20 hours a week which is doable judging by the hours my instructor puts in.
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Pretty much everywhere is more expensive than Oklahoma. I would find it extremely tight to live on $60k a year in LA (I lived in San Diego on less and I felt poor).
 
Joffreyyy said:
This probably varies flightschool to flightschool. But for the most part if you are a cfi can you live on that alone? (A place to live the bills etc..) how many hours do you work on average a week? What is an average hourly pay rate?
Do any flight schools offer salary instead of hourly pay if so common?

(Debating becoming a cfi or just keeping it as a hobby)

Thanks!
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Sure, my first CFI job I was paid 25hr air and ground, 100 per checkride passed, had my own apartment all to my self, complete with utilities, cable, internet, etc all paid for, right on the airport, it was a sweet little life.

Id say it's not tuff to make 30k ish a year, look a little harder and you'll easily clear more than a regional airline new hire.
 
OkieAviator said:
Pretty much everywhere is more expensive than Oklahoma. I would find it extremely tight to live on $60k a year in LA (I lived in San Diego on less and I felt poor).
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Yea, that's basically a break point for poverty in LA.
 
The thing i am doing first is getting all my bills under control which is to say im paying off all but my mortgage before i start flying. I too was wondering how the cfi pay is now a days as thats where i see myself headed in a few years, i would love to fly for the airlines or a big cargo co. but i would be happy just teaching others to fly and helping them to love aviation. Now all i have to do is get my butt out of this hole i fell into.
 
Thanks guys for all the responses, I love flying and it wouldnt even be like a job to me.

Liveable I consider above 30k atleast. That would be the lowest I could accept.
if you guys think thats easy to attain with only a cfi no mei or cfii ( but will obviously add them on as soon as practical)
 
Joffreyyy said:
Thanks guys for all the responses, I love flying and it wouldnt even be like a job to me.

Liveable I consider above 30k atleast. That would be the lowest I could accept.
if you guys think thats easy to attain with only a cfi no mei or cfii ( but will obviously add them on as soon as practical)
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At a decent school, that shouldn't be a problem
 
Joffreyyy said:
Thanks guys for all the responses, I love flying and it wouldnt even be like a job to me.

Liveable I consider above 30k atleast. That would be the lowest I could accept.
if you guys think thats easy to attain with only a cfi no mei or cfii ( but will obviously add them on as soon as practical)
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I think you'd need the CFI-I to get there. Doing only primary instruction could be a tough row to hoe.
 
Art VanDelay said:
Define livable ? In 1993 I did it on about $700.00 bucks a month - but it wasn't pretty. Thing is even back then I KNEW that by putting one foot in front of another, getting up everyday and getting in an airplane with a student I would end up where I am now - flying a 777 for a major airline and seeing parts of the world most of the guys I grew up with will never see.
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This. You have to bust your rump as a CFI. Work 12 hour days but only get paid for about 6. Market yourself, talk to every student, network, and give everyone a handshake. It's not an easy job and I've only been doing it for about 3 months.
 
OkieAviator said:
Pretty much everywhere is more expensive than Oklahoma. I would find it extremely tight to live on $60k a year in LA (I lived in San Diego on less and I felt poor).
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I live in San Diego on a LOT less right now, and don't feel particularly poor. I also don't live near the beach, have a roommate, don't have kids, and my only debt is a $100/month car payment. As I said before it's all about your lifestyle. I'm quite active and do a lot of things, but most of them cost very little if anything. It's amazing how much money people can spend on TV, Movies, Bars, going out to eat, etc. cut out all of that and spend your time doing other things that are cheaper and you're instantly a lot richer.
 
LDJones said:
I think you'd need the CFI-I to get there. Doing only primary instruction could be a tough row to hoe.
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Nah, primary students are the bread and butter of a flight school, besides once you're working there you can get your II add on for next to nothing once you see a need. I did quite well as a single I, where I was working there just wasn't a reason to spend the time on the II.
 
What I find interesting if not outright hilarious is how some independent CFIs expect that we pay them the same rate that the FBO or flight school charges when their CFIs receive only about 50% of that amount. If the FBO or flight school charges $50/hour and pay their CFI only $25 - $30 then $25 to $30 is all the independent CFI should receive, not $50.
 
SkyDog58 said:
What I find interesting if not outright hilarious is how some independent CFIs expect that we pay them the same rate that the FBO or flight school charges when their CFIs receive only about 50% of that amount. If the FBO or flight school charges $50/hour and pay their CFI only $25 - $30 then $25 to $30 is all the independent CFI should receive, not $50.
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Ba ha ha ha

What I find hilarious is you think a low time FBO CFI demands the same take home hourly rate as a high time freelance guy :rolleyes:


Ok, so as a once low time CFI and now as a higher time working ATP/CFI, when I freelance I charge 50hr, cash or barter.

There is ZERO chance I'd work at a FBO for 25 bucks a hour, nor would many of the pro pilots who CFI on the side for fun and pub money.

So as a customer, what do you care, get the most for your money.

You can have Johnny pimples with his 500hrs of flight time, all of which in the training environment, who is just looking to build hours. $50hr cost to you

Or you can have a multi thousand hour pilot, who has trained tons of folks, who has experience in everything from turbines, to ice and IMC, to little tailwheels, to seaplane, to etc etc etc. $50hr cost to you

But when you end up switching CFIs 3 times, log 30hrs and all before your first solo, remember this thread.
 
SkyDog58 said:
What I find interesting if not outright hilarious is how some independent CFIs expect that we pay them the same rate that the FBO or flight school charges when their CFIs receive only about 50% of that amount. If the FBO or flight school charges $50/hour and pay their CFI only $25 - $30 then $25 to $30 is all the independent CFI should receive, not $50.
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The FBO feels that their CFI's time is worth charging the student $50 per hour, correct? That's what they have set as the "value" of the CFI's services.

So why would I as an independent CFI think my time is worth any less?
 
SkyDog58 said:
What I find interesting if not outright hilarious is how some independent CFIs expect that we pay them the same rate that the FBO or flight school charges when their CFIs receive only about 50% of that amount. If the FBO or flight school charges $50/hour and pay their CFI only $25 - $30 then $25 to $30 is all the independent CFI should receive, not $50.
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Maybe they're independent for a reason? Why would their time and experience be worth less than independently than via the flight school? :dunno:
 
It's been close to 15 years ago now, but I was salaried as an instructor. Not much money - two grand a month - but it was kind of nice to have a reliable paycheck with medical and dental bennies. Those were some fun times. Just a bunch of kids flying all day, then grilling and drinking beer at the airport every evening.
 
Nope. Not for me it wasn't. But, I did it anyway, and have managed to have a good career--> Two shutdowns taken into account.
 
Livable, barely. Comfortable, not at all. Stupid supply and demand here, with MTSU on the field. Both Mtsu and the flight school I work for here charge $51 an hour, and we get $15, ground or flight. The selling point is the fact that we can fly all day every day and build time quickly. But I'm very close to RATP mins, with still a year before graduation, and I'll actually have the RATP mins before my 21st birthday in November, so I'm starting to question why I be taking half the flight time at double the pay at the next town over and still have time to have a life...
 
dlsmith said:
Livable, barely. Comfortable, not at all. Stupid supply and demand here, with MTSU on the field. Both Mtsu and the flight school I work for here charge $51 an hour, and we get $15, ground or flight. The selling point is the fact that we can fly all day every day and build time quickly. But I'm very close to RATP mins, with still a year before graduation, and I'll actually have the RATP mins before my 21st birthday in November, so I'm starting to question why I be taking half the flight time at double the pay at the next town over and still have time to have a life...
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And this is why we can't have nice things.

That's a crap flight school I'll be sure to tell others to avoid.


Thanks for being part of the problem :mad2:
 
dlsmith said:
Livable, barely. Comfortable, not at all. Stupid supply and demand here, with MTSU on the field. Both Mtsu and the flight school I work for here charge $51 an hour, and we get $15, ground or flight. The selling point is the fact that we can fly all day every day and build time quickly. But I'm very close to RATP mins, with still a year before graduation, and I'll actually have the RATP mins before my 21st birthday in November, so I'm starting to question why I be taking half the flight time at double the pay at the next town over and still have time to have a life...
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What James said. :yes:

They charge $51 and you get $15?? :(
 
dlsmith said:
Livable, barely. Comfortable, not at all. Stupid supply and demand here, with MTSU on the field. Both Mtsu and the flight school I work for here charge $51 an hour, and we get $15, ground or flight. The selling point is the fact that we can fly all day every day and build time quickly. But I'm very close to RATP mins, with still a year before graduation, and I'll actually have the RATP mins before my 21st birthday in November, so I'm starting to question why I be taking half the flight time at double the pay at the next town over and still have time to have a life...
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:mad2:
 
So they do virtually nothing and make more than double an hour what you do plus whatever they make from the airplane rental. And you're cool with that?
 
As an independent CFI, I charge $50/ hour while flying and I do not charge until the wheels on my C172 or Bonanza are off the ground.
 
Most I've met are either retired and instructing for extra money or they are very young, low time and building time to move on. I can't think of one that did it long term and expected to make a decent living.
 
StinkBug said:
So they do virtually nothing and make more than double an hour what you do plus whatever they make from the airplane rental. And you're cool with that?
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Cool with that is a stretch. It's the only one I don't have to drive far to. We flight instruct full time to build time, and I used it for precisely that. But now that I have more time I'm actively looking for other opportunities. And I did build it quickly. Something like aerosim is the better option for sure, but that doesn't work for those of us that have to stay for school.

Stupid supply and demand, we have a flood of Mtsu students with a CFI and 200hrs that are unemployable elsewhere..
 
Jimmy cooper said:
Most I've met are either retired and instructing for extra money or they are very young, low time and building time to move on. I can't think of one that did it long term and expected to make a decent living.
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I know several that make a decent living at it, but you need to go beyond just training primary students. You need a specialty - avionics, higher performance types, tailwheel, aerobatic; preferably more than one "specialty" category.

You also need to get yourself known in the community - go to pilot meetings, present at safety seminars, etc. You've got to market your skills, not just sit around the FBO waiting for customers.
 
winrose46 said:
As an independent CFI, I charge $50/ hour while flying and I do not charge until the wheels on my C172 or Bonanza are off the ground.
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I charge $35/hr, from the point the engine starts to the point the engine stops. I should probably charge more money and more time..but..I don't.
 
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