Cessna brake hose??

alfadog said:
Can't tell from the pic what kind of fitting on at least on end.

Picture%201302-20121105-093226.jpg
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that is stratoflex hose the requires that they be swaged by special equipment, not owned by many A&Ps.

those were not OEM equipment on cessna

Wait,, does your aircraft still have the old goodyear brakes on it ?
 
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I detailed my own brakes (with A&P checking me). I took the calipers off and we cleaned them up and painted them. New shoes and bolts and fittings.

The spec on a C180 called for 45 degree AN fitting coming out of the top of the caliper which was not present when I started so I put it back on them.

The hose is not a $900 hose I can tell you that. Like I said, Summit Racing. ;)


 
Tom-D said:
Put a gauge on the line and see what you can push with a standard cessna master cylinder.
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I once measured the geometry of the pedals, linkage and cylinder bore and came up with about 600 psi, if I recall correctly, if a 100-lb force is applied to the top of the pedal. And 100 lbs in a panic stop is nothing.

600 psi is still nothing for medium-pressure hose and fittings. It's rated at 3000 psi.
 
Dan Thomas said:
I once measured the geometry of the pedals, linkage and cylinder bore and came up with about 600 psi, if I recall correctly, if a 100-lb force is applied to the top of the pedal. And 100 lbs in a panic stop is nothing.

600 psi is still nothing for medium-pressure hose and fittings. It's rated at 3000 psi.
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It'd probably be right around there, on the race cars I do data analysis on we touch just under 6000kPa, 850psi or so when slowing down from 190mph standing on the brakes.
 
Tom-D said:
that is stratoflex hose the requires that they be swaged by special equipment, not owned by many A&Ps.

those were not OEM equipment on cessna

Wait,, does your aircraft still have the old goodyear brakes on it ?
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I've seen these on several cessnas. No idea what hose it is but there was a month long debate on the Cardinal flyers forum because they have them on many 177RGs and cessna wants over a $1k each or something like that for them.

My 1968 177 and 1962 150 both had regular hoses, not these oddballs.

The 1977 C177B I work on has these oddballs on both sides and look original.
 
txflyer said:
I detailed my own brakes (with A&P checking me). I took the calipers off and we cleaned them up and painted them. New shoes and bolts and fittings.

The spec on a C180 called for 45 degree AN fitting coming out of the top of the caliper which was not present when I started so I put it back on them.

The hose is not a $900 hose I can tell you that. Like I said, Summit Racing. ;)
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The aviation ones to fit that can be bought anywhere and are nowhere near $900. If fact I installed 7 new prefabbed PTFE liner stailness wire braided hoses with firesleeve for $400.

Automotive flares are 45 degrees and aviation flares a 37 degree, so not the same.

None of this a thing to do with the problem that the op ran into.
 
Dan Thomas said:
I once measured the geometry of the pedals, linkage and cylinder bore and came up with about 600 psi, if I recall correctly, if a 100-lb force is applied to the top of the pedal. And 100 lbs in a panic stop is nothing.

600 psi is still nothing for medium-pressure hose and fittings. It's rated at 3000 psi.
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I really doubt the 600 PSI. the area of the piston is 3.1416 inches 3.1416X600= 1884.96 pounds of force, you couldn't hold that with a common "C" clamp, and I have held the piston in the cylinder many times with a simple "C" clamp.
 
Tom-D said:
I really doubt the 600 PSI. the area of the piston is 3.1416 inches 3.1416X600= 1884.96 pounds of force, you couldn't hold that with a common "C" clamp, and I have held the piston in the cylinder many times with a simple "C" clamp.
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Hmmm...

Grove... a world renowned brake manufacturer has NO idea of operating pressures...

67-176 67-6A 1.50 2,800 11,000 15.05 $2,149.00 37-6A 2 1.750 066-105 2 7,504 373,584 0.500 0.475 67-276 67-6M 1.50 2,800 11,000 13.05 $2,459.00 37-6M 2 1.750 066-105 2 7,504 373,584 0.500 0.475 NOTE: Braking torque calculated at 600 psi brake line pressure...


:mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2::rolleyes:
 
txflyer said:
I detailed my own brakes (with A&P checking me). I took the calipers off and we cleaned them up and painted them. New shoes and bolts and fittings.

The spec on a C180 called for 45 degree AN fitting coming out of the top of the caliper which was not present when I started so I put it back on them.

The hose is not a $900 hose I can tell you that. Like I said, Summit Racing. ;)


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Once again a swaged hose, Way over kill for the application. the hoses shown are
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/stratoHose124_3.php?recfer=14252

With Stainless steel AN fittings.

In place of the three piece fitting adaptor at the brake housing, you should have gone with a AN Elbow
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/an823. single piece less cost and less chance for a leak.
 
N801BH said:
Hmmm...

Grove... a world renowned brake manufacturer has NO idea of operating pressures
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Cessna uses Cleveland. They have a 2" piston, at 600 PSI you be on your nose before you could wink.
 
Guess How I know Cessna uses Cleveland? because Parker Hanflin owns both companies.
 
bnt83 said:
Cessna has used many different brakes over the years...
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Yep,, they started with Goodyear, went to McCauley, (because they owned the company) and now Clevelands. (because they are owned by Parker) guess what kind of replacement part you will get if you order a McCauley brake part?
And I've not seen any of those brakes assemblies that wouldn't skid a wheel when you applied 100 pounds of pressure.
 
Any one here believe any A&P who manufactures a hose from the materials I listed above, then installed it and tested it on the aircraft would be in violation of FAR 43.13?
 
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N801BH said:
2" piston in the caliper ? or the master cylinder?
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were we not talking about brake line pressure? where does that go and what does it effect?

Try and stay with us BEN.
 
Tom-D said:
were we not talking about brake line pressure? where does that go and what does it effect?

Try and stay with us BEN.
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My plane has .625 master cylinder pistons and FOUR 2" caliper pistons and at 1100 PSI it locks the wheels tight....

Or course , it is a nose dragger, so no chance of flipping it over on it's back....

Altho there is someone here who has done that on a nicely restored taildragger,,,, :rolleyes::rolleyes:;);).......:hairraise:

So. what are the operating pressures of the brake system you are claiming to be an expert on???
 
Tom-D said:
Cessna uses Cleveland. They have a 2" piston, at 600 PSI you be on your nose before you could wink.
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As you say, a 2" piston has an area of 3.14 inches, so 600 PSI would give a force on the lining of over 1800 pounds. That's neither unusual nor out of line. If the coefficient of dynamic friction is around the same as automotive brake pads, they'll be between 0.35 up to 0.62 at most. That means that at 1800 pounds force, they will exert a drag of between 630 pounds and 1116 pounds on the disc. That's not a lot to try to stop a 3000 pound airplane with tires that are more than double the diameter of that disc.

Auto brake systems are typically 1200 PSI, on larger pistons, clamping somewhat larger pads on considerably larger discs. Lots of force there, and it's necessary.
 
N801BH said:
So. what are the operating pressures of the brake system you are claiming to be an expert on???
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Never claimed to be the expert, we leave that up to you.

Has any one here ever placed a gauge in line to see what the pressure really ? I really doubt that.

But you continue to argue..

I'm gone, Because for years I've been holding the pistons in the Cleveland brake housing with a simple "C" clamp while I tested brake lines with all my might. and never broke a clamp.

Argue and conspire on, like the blue page is noted for.
 
Tom-D said:
Once again a swaged hose, Way over kill for the application. the hoses shown are
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/stratoHose124_3.php?recfer=14252

With Stainless steel AN fittings.

In place of the three piece fitting adaptor at the brake housing, you should have gone with a AN Elbow
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/an823. single piece less cost and less chance for a leak.
Click to expand...


O.k., this discussion has officially gone above my pay grade.

I don't know what swaged is, and if it's ten million p.s.i. overkill so be it. It was all very cheap in airplane terms and it looks good and works.

Believe me, what I removed looked like WWII salvage parts compared ... :idea:
 
N801BH said:
My plane has .625 master cylinder pistons and FOUR 2" caliper pistons and at 1100 PSI it locks the wheels tight....
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If your .625 master cylinder is producing 1100 PSI, acting upon a 2" piston of 3.14 sq. in., it will produce a force of 3,454 lb. per piston. Seems like overkill for your aircraft, no wonder it locks them tight.
 
N801BH said:
That is more realistic numbers that I see on my experimental...

On my first 50 hours I actually had a pressure transducer mounted on my brake line and tied into the data acquisition computer to record stuff...

My brakes are a double puck set up..

http://www.groveaircraft.com/wbproducts.html..

I saw 500-550 PSI for light braking... 800 PSI for heavy braking and over 1100 PSI for total wheel lock up for run ups... YMMV...
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Do you have a CAN bus setup?
 
Tom-D said:
Any one here believe any A&P who manufactures a hose from the materials I listed above, then installed it and tested it on the aircraft would be in violation of FAR 43.13?
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you never said what the operating pressure is....and how you were gonna verify the hose survives1.5X operating pressure.:no:

or....take the hose to it's rated limits.:yes:
 
GlennAB1 said:
If your .625 master cylinder is producing 1100 PSI, acting upon a 2" piston of 3.14 sq. in., it will produce a force of 3,454 lb. per piston. Seems like overkill for your aircraft, no wonder it locks them tight.
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My main point was....

I have NEVER heard of any hydraulic brake system that uses just 50 PSI of line pressure. I did look around the internet for the braking pressure for a Cessna C-150-J to help the OP in their hose search..

I just want to learn stuff and not have potential false numbers posted on the internet for others to take as gospel and maybe hurt themselves..

Can anyone steer me to the correct and accurate data for line pressures on a C-150-J brake system?


Thanks in advance...
 
Goodness people more time has been spent on this thread than just getting it done. Here is the manual that the FAA says you need to have around. It is probably -4 111 hose. Buy the mandrel, get a vice and make it happen

http://www.aero-hose.com/_docs/111 catalog.pdf
 
for a 1111-4 size hose the proof is 6000 the burst is 12000. See table on page 5. There are even mill specs and TSO standards listed in the documentation
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
you never said what the operating pressure is....and how you were gonna verify the hose survives1.5X operating pressure.:no:

or....take the hose to it's rated limits.:yes:
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who says it must. ?

The 100 service manual ? Nope
Cessna type certificate ? nope
Any AD? nope.
Show me any regulation that says all hoses, specially this one that requires a hose made in the field MUST be tested.
 
N801BH said:
My main point was....

I have NEVER heard of any hydraulic brake system that uses just 50 PSI of line pressure. I did look around the internet for the braking pressure for a Cessna C-150-J to help the OP in their hose search..

I just want to learn stuff and not have potential false numbers posted on the internet for others to take as gospel and maybe hurt themselves..

Can anyone steer me to the correct and accurate data for line pressures on a C-150-J brake system?


Thanks in advance...
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There is no required pressure in any Cessna brake line. simply because it varies.

That's why I asked you to place a gauge in the line.
The Cessna 100 service manual is the guide for maintenance on the single engine line up to the 210, and it gives no required pressure for the brakes.

These lines are manufactured in the field and tested in place, they either leak or they don't.
 
Tom-D said:
There is no required pressure in any Cessna brake line. simply because it varies.

That's why I asked you to place a gauge in the line.
The Cessna 100 service manual is the guide for maintenance on the single engine line up to the 210, and it gives no required pressure for the brakes.

These lines are manufactured in the field and tested in place, they either leak or they don't.
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Sir....
I DID place a gauge ( transducer) in my brake line to acquire data for my knowledge of my planes specs.....

And the pressures are 20 times higher then 50 PSI.
 
N801BH said:
Sir....
I DID place a gauge ( transducer) in my brake line to acquire data for my knowledge of my planes specs.....

And the pressures are 20 times higher then 50 PSI.
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If you got reading that high there is some thing wrong with your method.
 
Any one here realize that some of the EA/B aircraft use a plastic tube and matco brakes and get the job done?

I'll bet ya that's some high pressure :)
 
Tom-D said:
Any one here realize that some of the EA/B aircraft use a plastic tube and matco brakes and get the job done?

I'll bet ya that's some high pressure :)
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A production built Cessna uses plastic too. The 162.
 
Tom-D said:
who says it must. ?

The 100 service manual ? Nope
Cessna type certificate ? nope
Any AD? nope.
Show me any regulation that says all hoses, specially this one that requires a hose made in the field MUST be tested.
Click to expand...

AC 43.13 2B Page 9-430 and the FAA AMT Handbook are acceptable methods of compliance for fabricating hose.

Hydraulic System Pressure Test. When a flexible
hose has been repaired or overhauled using existing
hard worn and new hose material, before the hose is
installed on the aircraft it is recommended that the hose
is tested to at least 1.5 system pressure. A new hose can
be operationally checked after it is installed in the
aircraft using system pressure.
Click to expand...
 
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