Ceramic exhaust

I would think if true would increase life of the exhaust too, but IDK. I've never had any muscle cars let alone with ceramic coated exhausts.
 
Fellow Bellanca owner did this during restoration several years ago... still holding up and looking great when I saw the plane this year at Oshkosh.
 
Tom-D said:
Not a new concept, we had ceramic coated exhaust on the 3350 Wights and the 1820 on the T-28s.
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What were your impressions, how did the welds hold up?
 
James331 said:
What were your impressions, how did the welds hold up?
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Both of the aircraft I saw them on were Navy aircraft. Why would I know how long the welds held?
 
Tom-D said:
Both of the aircraft I saw them on were Navy aircraft. Why would I know how long the welds held?
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No idea how long you were around them

The only bad thing I heard was on SS they would bust welds, but that was like 50/50 depending on who you ask..
 
James331 said:
No idea how long you were around them

The only bad thing I heard was on SS they would bust welds, but that was like 50/50 depending on who you ask..
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With the Navies young pilots they got blown off weekly, and always replaced with new.
 
Was this pizz poor engine management, or a issue with the ceramic?
 
James331 said:
Was this pizz poor engine management, or a issue with the ceramic?
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Think you could cold start a 3350 Wright with out back firing it? how about the 1820 in a T-28?
 
Tom-D said:
Think you could cold start a 3350 Wright with out back firing it? how about the 1820 in a T-28?
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Don't care

....As to the question Tom?
 
James331 said:
Don't care

....As to the question Tom?
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Failure of the exhaust system occurred because of backfiring on start. not pizza poor engine management. but of course we only got 400-800 out of the engines away so. we never seen a exhaust ring failure for any other cause.
 
So what's your take on ceramics on a acorn HD SS exhaust system on a IO-520D for amphib use?
 
The Stacks on the Piper Meridian are ceramic coated. These stacks have 600 hours on them and look brand new. Plus they cool so fast that you can put the covers on just about as soon as you get out of the plane.

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Rockymountain said:
The Stacks on the Piper Meridian are ceramic coated. These stacks have 600 hours on them and look brand new. Plus they cool so fast that you can put the covers on just about as soon as you get out of the plane.

View attachment 49465
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Was going to post something to that effect. When I still had my 69 Camaro, I had ceramic-coated headers and they were nearly cool enough to touch not long after pulling in the garage.
 
I have used ceramic coated hedders on race cars in my earlier life, which is pretty severe duty compared to most airplanes. They held up pretty well.
 
D'Shannon offers it on their Baron and Bonanza exhausts. I could be mistaken, but I believe that's the first and only stc'd ceramic coating there is.

Every other thread I've seen on the topic turns into a knockdown, drag em out, slugfest. People get really divided and really passionate over whether or not there's a benefit....
 
JohnK said:
D'Shannon offers it on their Baron and Bonanza exhausts. I could be mistaken, but I believe that's the first and only stc'd ceramic coating there is.
Every other thread I've seen on the topic turns into a knockdown, drag em out, slugfest. People get really divided and really passionate over whether or not there's a benefit....
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I've seen two different types of ceramic coating on exhaust pipes the first is like my Grand ma's porcelain pots and pans, it is a glass like coating that Is baked on.
the other is this dipped coating like EverShield it is new era technology chemistry.
now my opinion, anything that will extend the life of our exhaust systems must have a benefit, The issue is what the FAA will believe " is it a major or minor alteration. my opinion? it's minor.
 
Tom-D said:
...anything that will extend the life of our exhaust systems must have a benefit...
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That's one of the contested issues...not allowing the exhaust to radiate heat; does the ceramic mask any cracks; does the ceramic make it next to impossible to repair the exhaust, etc...

George Braly went so far as to say that the ceramic exhaust coatings are the answer to the question that nobody asked.
 
JohnK said:
D'Shannon offers it on their Baron and Bonanza exhausts. I could be mistaken, but I believe that's the first and only stc'd ceramic coating there is.

Every other thread I've seen on the topic turns into a knockdown, drag em out, slugfest. People get really divided and really passionate over whether or not there's a benefit....
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Hmmmm.....it's STC'd....that might be a big clue for Tom. :D
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
Hmmmm.....it's STC'd....that might be a big clue for Tom. :D
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To be fair, D'Shannon's exhaust isn't a stock coated piece. It's a completely new exhaust system with equal length primaries and a bunch of other changes:

3YAFLub.jpg
 
I could see that being a benefit to extend the life of the inconel exhaust on turbo Twin Cessnas. While they do last reasonably well, they're very expensive when they go out.

Neat idea, for sure. Wonder what the cost would be...
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I could see that being a benefit to extend the life of the inconel exhaust ....
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That was another hotly (zing!) contested item. Would altering the thermal dispersion properties of inconel/stainless increase or decrease the lifespan/strength/resilience.

Aviation seems to attract engineers from all disciplines, but damned if I can find a thread where a metallurgist has weighed in on ceramic coating aviation exhausts.

Ted DuPuis said:
Neat idea, for sure. Wonder what the cost would be...
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Not much in relative terms...car guys don't usually think about AMU's.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
Hmmmm.....it's STC'd....that might be a big clue for Tom. :D
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Do you understand the difference between manufacturing a part for resale, and coating some thing in the field?
You can buy Evershield from S&S and coat your exhausts your self. That's what I feel is a minor alteration.
 
JohnK said:
That was another hotly (zing!) contested item. Would altering the thermal dispersion properties of inconel/stainless increase or decrease the lifespan/strength/resilience.

Aviation seems to attract engineers from all disciplines, but damned if I can find a thread where a metallurgist has weighed in on ceramic coating aviation exhausts.
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There's no doubt that inconel holds up better than stainless for an exhaust. This is the whole reason why the turbo Twin Cessnas use inconel. I'm not sure what the turbo Lycomings use, but pretty sure they also use inconel. The positive about this is that it holds up to the higher temps, the negative is that it costs a ton of money. Turbo Twin Cessnas have an AD on the inconel exhaust because, even then, there are various longevity issues.

In the turbine engine world, inconel (and other highly expensive metals) are used all over for their thermal properties. Ceramics have also made their way into various parts, but using parts made out of ceramic altogether, rather than just coatings like we're talking about here. I'm sure there are ceramic coatings used in some places as well.

If you think about it, the ceramic coating is mainly supposed to provide a layer of insulation to the metal to prevent it from reaching the full temperature of the exhaust gasses. In other automotive realms, there have been ceramic coatings advertised for pistons, valves, combustion chambers, etc. for basically the same purpose - keep as much of the heat in the combustion chamber as possible, which increases power/efficiency and also decreases the load on the cooling system.

You would to consider bonding capabilities. I don't know about how the ceramics would bond to inconel in comparison to aluminum, stainless, etc.

Not much in relative terms...car guys don't usually think about AMU's.
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Right, but when you're talking $10k/side for an exhaust, adding another $1-2k is still significant unless you can determine there is a benefit. That said, I'd be all for trying it on the 414 if there was a legal way to do so.
 
Tom-D said:
Do you understand the difference between manufacturing a part for resale, and coating some thing in the field?
You can buy Evershield from S&S and coat your exhausts your self. That's what I feel is a minor alteration.
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or get it done right at a shop light jet-hot

I put a fork in it and just polished mine, good enough for my NA 520
 
James331 said:
or get it done right at a shop light jet-hot

I put a fork in it and just polished mine, good enough for my NA 520
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Most owners can't clean the metal well enough to make Evershield work. so getting it done by a shop is a must.
 
Also Id wager what they use and their ovens are a little better
 
Tom-D said:
Do you understand the difference between manufacturing a part for resale, and coating some thing in the field?
You can buy Evershield from S&S and coat your exhausts your self. That's what I feel is a minor alteration.
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Oh...yeah, just say it's an owner produced part. :lol:
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Right, but when you're talking $10k/side for an exhaust, adding another $1-2k is still significant unless you can determine there is a benefit. That said, I'd be all for trying it on the 414 if there was a legal way to do so.
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Ceramic coating 6 cylinder automotive manifolds are $200 - $300 per pair in my neck of the woods (CYYZ)....that's a coating that's supposed to withstand sustained 1600 degrees and short periods of 2000 degrees.
 
Cost-benefit doesn't favor coating the average airplane exhaust. For the majority of us there are better things to spend aviation dollars on.
 
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