Can't say "knife" in high school

denverpilot

denverpilot

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DenverPilot
A friend I've known for a long time posted this, this morning, elsewhere:

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"My high school kids are learning about WW1 in history class. They informed me they are not allowed to say the word "knife." It's now known as a "bladed hand instrument." It's a good thing our democratic republic of states has zero chance of engaging in an elevated life expiration causing disagreement with undocumented, non-local nations and/or human frightening affiliated humans."

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This kind of stuff is what weirds me out about censorship. That "weirded out" sentiment I feel over it applies here with the removal of the SZ and the heavier moderating since then, and seems to apply to all sorts of places lately.

Everyone needs to always be happy, nobody can be bothered by whatever words or ideas that bother them.

This was my response in that other place, just to make it clear that I'm not "safe space" bashing.

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"A real post from a friend. It just floors me that our "education" system is so full of people who can't abide certain words. High schoolers can't say the word "knife" when discussing the history of a world war.

His response is pretty funny, too.

More importantly, what causes this strangeness? I'm not looking for snarky "safe space" commentary, I think we all know it's just strange when a very large group of people can't say words like "knife". Clinically paranoid comes to mind. Banning words like "knife" is well beyond what most folks would label as "Politically Correct", it touches on Orwellian "DoubleSpeak" and I suppose helps keep folks from committing "ThoughtCrime"?

It's honestly somewhat concerning that this group of possibly unstable people sets education policy. Stuff like this makes me question their intelligence, more than respect it.

Can the kids say "Bomb"? "Tank"? "Grenade"? "Mustard Gas"?

Do they know the Nobel Prize was started by a guy who figured out how to synthesize nitrates to more economically blow people into little tiny bits, amongst other uses, which also included making fertilizer so most of us don't starve?

What causes this garbage? Seriously. Can't say "knife"...

I'm surprised they don't ban the word "computer". Those have harmed FAR more humans than knives in the modern era. Might point out that the word derives from being to "compute" trajectories for munitions..."

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And the best to the point comment so far from someone else:

"I don't think bladed hand instrument is in the dictionary, but knife sure the hell is!"

So strange all this tiptoeing around words and ideas. It's almost like they want the kids to actually speak in goofy double talk after they graduate? It's history. About a war. And it's a KNIFE. Sheesh.
 
Ridiculous attempt to change behavior. Do they really think there will be less knifings if they outlaw the word?
 
Sorry, I call BS.

FOAF tales have a way of being made up.

There is no reason to ban that word, except to show how crazy/stupid people are.
 
MAKG1 said:
Sorry, I call BS.

FOAF tales have a way of being made up.

There is no reason to ban that word, except to show how crazy/stupid people are.
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Call BS all you like.

I've known the guy for two decades and remember when his kid was born. We worked together back then. He's not lying about it.

Public school system. Leavenworth, KS. Couldn't tell ya which HS, but I could ask.
 
Political correctness, "safe zones," participation awards, and all that other nonsense are just attempts by a people who have always had a deeply divisive streak to pretend that they no longer do. They're manifestations of what Freud would call "reaction formation" to the binary frame of reference created by the Puritans as a result of their rather extreme interpretations of Calvin's doctrines of predestination and foreordination.

I could go on, but we'd wind up in the SZ for sure. And that's unfortunate because it is utterly impossible to understand our history and sociology without examining Puritanism and its lasting effects upon our way of thinking. Most people think of Puritanism in terms of sexual prudishness, but that barely scratches the surface of Puritanism. The binary tendencies in our thinking and values are actually the most unfortunate vestiges of Puritanism that are still operative today. They are so deeply ingrained that most people aren't even aware of them. And yet they motivate most of our politics, policies, and psychology.

Unfortunately, we are forbidden to discuss things even remotely related to religion not only here, but also in schools; which is one of the reasons why these unfortunate vestiges of Puritanism survive and continue to thrive despite our superficial attempts to overcome them.

Rich
 
Maybe the teacher couldn't get them to spell 'bayonet' correctly...
 
MAKG1 said:
Sorry, I call BS.

FOAF tales have a way of being made up.

There is no reason to ban that word, except to show how crazy/stupid people are.
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+1 That's my reaction as well. I also read that Bernie Sanders may become president in January.

SZ was not done away with because people needed safe zones. Instead, moderators got sick of arguments bleeding over into non-sz areas of the forum. It's distracting and it takes away from the good content.
 
I know a number of my students carry pocket knives because I have seen them use them for cutting open boxes etc.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
I know a number of my students carry pocket knives because I have seen them use them for cutting open boxes etc.
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We lived in rural Alabama while I was in high school, back in the early 80's. I think I was in the minority by not carrying a pocket knife. There were a lot of gun racks in the pick-up trucks driven by students, and many of them had guns in them. I was there for 4 years and my sister for 3 more years. Not one shot fired and I don't recall a single knife attack either. There were fights, but only fist fights.
 
Brad Z said:
+1 That's my reaction as well. I also read that Bernie Sanders may become president in January.

SZ was not done away with because people needed safe zones. Instead, moderators got sick of arguments bleeding over into non-sz areas of the forum. It's distracting and it takes away from the good content.
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Actually, my impression is that the reason SZ was terminated was because of constant whiny complaints by people who chose to participate in the SZ, but who nonetheless ran sobbing to the MC every time their feelings were hurt by some comment or another.

My approach to the SZ was to assume it was an anarchic realm wherein anything went, and that my sole remedy if I didn't like what was going on there was to stop going there. I think most members felt the same way. But some didn't, and it caused constant grief for the MC.

I can understand their feelings. For years, I ran a completely unmoderated soapbox site where literally anyone could say anything about any topic whatsoever. But when some people started trying to use it as a doxing platform, I had to shut it down. I had no interest in reading and approving every post to avoid the one thing that I couldn't allow, so I killed it caused its premature life expiration.

Rich
 
Reminds me of the little girl, first or second grade, who's mother packed her a chicken breast for lunch and included a steak knife to cut it with. She was expelled.
 
My guess is there is a small grain of truth and alot of context intentionally missing to make a story more sensational than it really is.

I did something similar a few years ago on FB. This is what I posted:

"True story: Today my son brought home a flyer inviting all parents who are veterans to an assembly at his school on Veterans Day. The flyer goes on to describe the school's security procedure, and tells me I need to be prepared to show a drivers license, a state issued ID card, a work visa, or a green card.

I may be a product of an un-air conditioned country school with only one classroom per grade and a four shelf library, but the irony is not lost on me that my DD Form 2 (United States Uniformed Services Identification Card) won't get me into a Veterans Day assembly, but a work visa or green card would."

The rest of story...I e-mailed the principal, politely pointed out that it seemed ironic that a military ID was not an acceptable ID for a Veteran's Day observance, and asked her to reconsider. She called me back and apologized profusely, said she was a brat herself, no slight was intended, and they would certainly accept my military ID. She should have stopped there; instead she tacked on "In fact, we'll take anything for ID." Way to make me feel good about your security procedure Mrs Johnson.

So I think there's something missing from the knife story.
 
denverpilot said:
This kind of stuff is what weirds me out about censorship. That "weirded out" sentiment I feel over it applies here with the removal of the SZ and the heavier moderating since then, and seems to apply to all sorts of places lately.
Click to expand...

My participation here has declined significantly. Not because I am miffed at the MC for doing away with the spin zone (I understood some of the challenges) but because the attitude in general is much less fun.

Technically this thread is about politics so it might get locked. Tread lightly!
 
The kids cannot say something at school but if you looked at their faceplace pages they would be full of unsavory topics and pictures. Half of them have pictures of underage naked people on their phones and the things that come out of their mouths in public is disturbing.

I think they are fighting the wrong battle.
 
dell30rb said:
My participation here has declined significantly. Not because I am miffed at the MC for doing away with the spin zone (I understood some of the challenges) but because the attitude in general is much less fun.

Technically this thread is about politics so it might get locked. Tread lightly!
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'Murica!!!
 
denverpilot said:
Public school system. Leavenworth, KS. Couldn't tell ya which HS, but I could ask.
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I graduated from LHS. I think there's still only one public HS? When I was there, there was one public and one private, Catholic, high school. That public high school is an interesting mix of locals and Army brats.

Back then you could still carry a Swiss Army bladed hand instrument and a pocket bladed hand instrument to school. They also had a pretty good shooting team, too, maybe frowned upon these days.

My guess is that there is some textbook that uses that term and even the teacher thinks it's dumb.
 
denverpilot said:
A friend I've known for a long time posted this, this morning, elsewhere:

-----

"My high school kids are learning about WW1 in history class. They informed me they are not allowed to say the word "knife." It's now known as a "bladed hand instrument." It's a good thing our democratic republic of states has zero chance of engaging in an elevated life expiration causing disagreement with undocumented, non-local nations and/or human frightening affiliated humans."

-----
Click to expand...

Not surprised, since the "bladed hand instrument" is a favorite of a particular group that our administration is trying to defend.
 
denverpilot said:
A friend I've known for a long time posted this, this morning, elsewhere:

-----

"My high school kids are learning about WW1 in history class. They informed me they are not allowed to say the word "knife." It's now known as a "bladed hand instrument."...
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I'm trying to imagine WW1 being fought with one of these. :rofl:

weishi-gunmetal-butterfly-double-edge-safety-razor-in-case.jpg
 
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I agree, this censorship thing has gotten out of hand. If words hurt your "feelings" that much, perhaps you should just wear ear muffs and let everyone else live their life.
 
Consider how big the US is. Now consider how many thousands of schools there must be and how many people staff them.

With those numbers it is a guarantee there are some nutty teachers/administrators with some crazy ideas about stuff. Some of them will do off the wall crap and that's what you are seeing in the news most likely.

I have to believe that most administrators have a few functioning brain cells and the intestinal fortitude to do the right thing most of the time, but there are surely exceptions...
 
James331 said:
I agree, this censorship thing has gotten out of hand. If words hurt your "feelings" that much, perhaps you should just wear ear muffs and let everyone else live their life.
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Seems to be more of a"Law and Order" and "Zero Tolerance" and not a "having feelings hurt" issue.
 
cowman said:
Consider how big the US is. Now consider how many thousands of schools there must be and how many people staff them.

With those numbers it is a guarantee there are some nutty teachers/administrators with some crazy ideas about stuff. Some of them will do off the wall crap and that's what you are seeing in the news most likely.

I have to believe that most administrators have a few functioning brain cells and the intestinal fortitude to do the right thing most of the time, but there are surely exceptions...
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And the exceptions get instant publicity through social media, so everyone gets to hear about them and believe it's going on all over. This does not just happen with school issues...
 
Acrodustertoo said:
Reminds me of the little girl, first or second grade, who's mother packed her a chicken breast for lunch and included a steak knife to cut it with. She was expelled.
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Well, we must remove dangerous people from our society. She got what she deserved.
 
I am thankful that we moved away from Denver to a small town in Colorado. My son started Kindergarten this year, and they actually allow the students to make gun hands and say "bang" to each other around here. I am guessing it will not be too many more years until the PC mentality begins to creep into even these communities, but for now we seem to be safe from the kind of thinking that tries to propagandize school children through word choice and thoughtcrime.
 
Didn't know hedge clippers were standard issue to the infantry in The Great War.

Cheers
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Seems to be more of a"Law and Order" and "Zero Tolerance" and not a "having feelings hurt" issue.
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Zero tolerance seems to be infringing on the First Amendment in this case. There are allowed exceptions to freedom of speech, but the word "fire" is not prohibited unless it is shouted in a crowded theater (and in the absence of an actual fire).
 
Zero tolerance is great, let's have zero tolerance for people who try to outlaw students from saying knife, or chewing a gun shape into a breakfast snack, "sorry Mr SenstiveNewAgeMale, we have a zero tolerance policy for your crap, off to the unemployment line with you"
 
dell30rb said:
Technically this thread is about politics so it might get locked. Tread lightly!
Click to expand...

Was trying to look at the psychological aspect more than the politics. What caused a teacher to ban a word as simple as "knife"?

I like the theory that it was done in the textbook, but there has to be something else to it. Most teachers understand vocabulary well enough that if the teacher and students substitute "knife" for some goofy textbook that uses three words where one would do... they would simply use the simpler word in classroom discussion.

In other words, there's some reason the teacher feels they need to do it. And it's that feeling I'm most interested in as it's part of the "weirdness".

How does a society become innately fearful of the word "knife" at some level?

Even if it's only one example in one classroom, the general feel is out there... don't say certain things. And those things are generally innocuous ... like saying "knife".
 
denverpilot said:
Was trying to look at the psychological aspect more than the politics. What caused a teacher to ban a word as simple as "knife"?

I like the theory that it was done in the textbook, but there has to be something else to it. Most teachers understand vocabulary well enough that if the teacher and students substitute "knife" for some goofy textbook that uses three words where one would do... they would simply use the simpler word in classroom discussion.

In other words, there's some reason the teacher feels they need to do it. And it's that feeling I'm most interested in as it's part of the "weirdness".

How does a society become innately fearful of the word "knife" at some level?

Even if it's only one example in one classroom, the general feel is out there... don't say certain things. And those things are generally innocuous ... like saying "knife".
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I don't think you can project one teacher's "weirdness" on society. I doubt that there are many who fear the word "knife".
 
You folks are not very sensitive and seem a bit intolerant of those who are offended by words that can conjure up violent or vulgar images. I support these sort of efforts to eliminate any wording that could possibly be found to be offensive. In fact, I think we need to eliminate the term "low wing" from our aviation vocabulary and replace it with "ground obscuring wing placement". I think it would help heal the ever present feelings of hurt and inferiority that low wing pilots have.
 
denverpilot said:
No, but there are plenty who fear other words or ideas.
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Most of the words, ideas, and symbols that people fear are directed against other groups of people, not inanimate objects like knives.
 
Everskyward said:
Most of the words, ideas, and symbols that people fear are directed against other groups of people, not inanimate objects like knives.
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Hmmm. Will have to think about that, but it seems inaccurate when making a pair of fingers into a gun shape is banned or nibbling a sandwich into the shape.

Unless you're saying the fingers or sandwich pointed at someone are the problem there? But that's not the story we hear out of those "zero tolerance" policies.

Or wearing of team jerseys? Or the scary words on banned t-shirts?

It doesn't seem like there's any intent for attack on another person as the core cause of the paranoia. I think that's just an excuse for their unfounded fear. A rationalization of it.
 
It will bring marine basic training to a halt! the DI will have to say, " fix bladed hand instrument." Won't it??
 
"Don’t you see that the whole aim of Newspeak is to narrow the range of thought? In the end we shall make thoughtcrime literally impossible, because there will be no words in which to express it. Every concept that can ever be needed, will be expressed by exactly one word, with its meaning rigidly defined and all its subsidiary meanings rubbed out and forgotten. Already, in the Eleventh Edition, we’re not far from that point. But the process will still be continuing long after you and I are dead. Every year fewer and fewer words, and the range of consciousness always a little smaller. Even now, of course, there’s no reason or excuse for committing thoughtcrime. It’s merely a question of self-discipline, reality-control. But in the end there won’t be any need even for that. The Revolution will be complete when the language is perfect."​

--Syme, 1984
 
denverpilot said:
Hmmm. Will have to think about that, but it seems inaccurate when making a pair of fingers into a gun shape is banned or nibbling a sandwich into the shape.
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IMHO, another isolated example of "weirdness" that generated social media frenzy.

denverpilot said:
Or wearing of team jerseys? Or the scary words on banned t-shirts?
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Not sure without examples what you are getting at here.
 
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