Can we get a "crash" forum?

EdFred

EdFred

Taxi to Parking
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The Ed
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9D9 / 6Y9 / 88TN
Just some place to put all the incidents and accidents that aren't our own. That way it's really easy to find all the crash threads, and alleviates the multiple threads on the same crash since they end up in HT, FF, PT, Mx, CP....well every sub-forum.
 
Its a little morbid but I like the idea because I think it would lend itself to the resolution.
Most of these crashes get threads but when the findings come out, the thread is long forgotten and rarely updated with the actual cause.

Might be a good library of sorts although each one would start with a crash, a ton of speculation, and then the actual resolution.
 
I'm always impressed by the people who dig up a 5 year old thread to finally post up the NTSB findings, it usually spurs an interesting 1-2 additional page discussion

The question is, is someone from PoA going to have to then go and back load all the old crash/accident threads?
 
It’s very morbid but I read about every crash. I hope I can learn from someone else’s mistake.
 
Tantalum said:
I'm always impressed by the people who dig up a 5 year old thread to finally post up the NTSB findings, it usually spurs an interesting 1-2 additional page discussion

The question is, is someone from PoA going to have to then go and back load all the old crash/accident threads?
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I think if/when they get resurrected, the mods just gotta do a click/move to the new forum. As far as digging up old ones, could just report the thread to the mods, and it can get moved that way.
 
BT has a specific sub-forum like suggested here.
 
EdFred said:
Just some place to put all the incidents and accidents that aren't our own. That way it's really easy to find all the crash threads, and alleviates the multiple threads on the same crash since they end up in HT, FF, PT, Mx, CP....well every sub-forum.
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Sounds like a good idea.
 
I like the idea, as long as there's an open disclaimer regarding not stifling speculation. Kinda like the opposite of the classifieds (the whole no commenting on "value" nonsense). :D
 
I always read crash reports, trying to learn something.

They're highly gratifying to me when there's a technical mystery, and very smart people are weighing in on possibilities. I learn the most from those.

They're super annoying to me when it devolves into a virtue-signalling "thoughts and prayers" hallmark thread.

I think a lot of pilots feel the reverse of how I do, as I've seen some superheated arguments for and against speculation on a crash. (I'm obviously very pro-speculation, I see no harm in it). It'd probably be clever of management to spell out the intended use of such a subforum, so there was at least some guidance on what's considered proper, and a lot of the arguments on decorum can be nipped in the bud.
 
I wasn't thinking any special rules other than the RoC we have in place. Speculate, don't speculate, whatever, I just wanted them all herded into one place.
 
Add me to list of “Yes, please” on this idea.
 
I like reading about accidents. Try to learn something to just about every one. Some more then others. It would be nice to have a subforum for just that. As they can get lost in the shuffle sometimes
 
schmookeeg said:
I always read crash reports, trying to learn something.

They're highly gratifying to me when there's a technical mystery, and very smart people are weighing in on possibilities. I learn the most from those.

They're super annoying to me when it devolves into a virtue-signalling "thoughts and prayers" hallmark thread.

I think a lot of pilots feel the reverse of how I do, as I've seen some superheated arguments for and against speculation on a crash. (I'm obviously very pro-speculation, I see no harm in it). It'd probably be clever of management to spell out the intended use of such a subforum, so there was at least some guidance on what's considered proper, and a lot of the arguments on decorum can be nipped in the bud.
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I've been lurking on here for nearly 4 months before joining, and it was the crash speculation that kept me coming back.
I agree with you on the "thoughts and prayers" stuff: I guess people are sending condolences how ever they know how, but I find it annoying. I suppose I'm different from most people, and being I'm an atheist, I find the "prayers" part particularly silly, but again that's just me.
 
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Weekend Warrior said:
I agree with you on the "thoughts and prayers" stuff: I guess people are sending condolences however they know how, but I find it annoying. But I suppose I'm different, and being I'm an atheist, I find the "prayers" part particularly silly, but again that's just me.
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I do believe in a Creator God and that genuine prayers are appropriate for those grieving (I don’t believe they help the deceased) but would agree that expressing the sentiment is of marginal value even to the family. That said, I’d also hesitate to slap anyone with a ROC violation for offering those words. That is a judgment of their motives, and that’s not my place.
 
+1

I use a scuba forum and they have a accidents and incidents sub forum. Makes total sense. Very easy to find, very informative just not always fun to read. When I first started on this forum I was surprised it didn't have something like what is being proposed. @Brad Z's suggestion of keeping it from being externally searchable I think would also be wise.
 
Having been the president of an accident investigation board, I can appreciate the technical aspects of discovering the causes and human factors of a crash.

In my case, I was able to find a mechanical defect that had never been seen previously and it led to the discovery of some severe deficits in the pilot's training. That went to the top of the chain of responsibility and caused some documented changes in the training syllabus and regulatory guidance.

It was too much work, though... o_Oo_O
 
Funny, I thought there was a sub-forum here for accidents, but I realized I was confusing POA with the AOPA red board, which has a "Never Again" forum...as if...
 
Ed we have the "Lesson's Learned Forum" It was orginally mean to post our own bone headed moves or missteps but don't see why that can't be used for the accident forum.
 
Ed, The Lessons Learned forum is and has been used to post one's own missteps and misfortunes as well as those of others.
 
The one other point I would add to this is when you search for things like "private plane" or "pilot", this site is one of the top ones to come up and it is usually the crash threads that are first on the search. Like the comment that @Brad Z made, it would be great if that wasn't splashed all over the web. It really gives a slanted view of how dangerous GA is.
 
Brad Z said:
Is it possible to make the forum unsearchable by search engine web crawlers? I'd just as well not have family or attorneys stumbling into the forum, particularly when there are discussions that are less than complimentary to the flight crew.
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Family members quite frankly will probably have way bigger priorities at that point than searching for what strangers are saying on some web forum. Also if they're going to read anything on the event, I would expect they'd most likely read whatever news media coverage they can find first. And the comments you find on news article pages are usually way more brutal than anything people say here. As for attorneys, I wouldn't expect many would want to waste their time searching out comments from uniformed armchair quarterbacks on the internet but I could be wrong on that. What value could an attorney possibly find in comments from idiots speculating on a web forum about a crash they haven't personally witnessed or investigated?
 
Could a crash section be made “members only” and only viewable by members? I’ve seen similar things on other forums, but am not sure how it was done.
 
Brad Z said:
Is it possible to make the forum unsearchable by search engine web crawlers? I'd just as well not have family or attorneys stumbling into the forum, particularly when there are discussions that are less than complimentary to the flight crew.
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Good idea
 
Juliet Hotel said:
As for attorneys, I wouldn't expect many would want to waste their time searching out comments from uniformed armchair quarterbacks on the internet but I could be wrong on that.
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Ever hear of Art Wolk?

Nauga,
who wonders what there is to hide.
 
EdFred said:
Just some place to put all the incidents and accidents that aren't our own. That way it's really easy to find all the crash threads, and alleviates the multiple threads on the same crash since they end up in HT, FF, PT, Mx, CP....well every sub-forum.
Click to expand...

Every time there is an accident, and we speculate about its cause, someone always chastises us not to jump to conclusions and to let the NTSB do their job. The reality is, by the time the report comes out, no one remembers the accident anymore. Having a repository of discussions would be highly useful to resurrect old accidents and compare the NTSB findings to what we originally speculated. This is well worth doing.
 
Been asked before:
https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/com...-for-accident-major-mishap-discussions.60737/
https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/com...turn-into-an-accident-discussion-site.112661/
https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/attention-mods-a-minor-suggestion.117967/

The answer has been "no" for multiple reasons for multiple years and this has been hashed out several times in the past. I don't particularly feel like re-typing all of those reasons so feel free to go back and re-read.
 
From what I see there was never a reason as to why a new subform wasn't created, just the talk of why it shouldn't be hidden. So why can't we do something for one to be created specifically for crashes? Jason already said it was easy peasy.

Not calling for a change in the rules of discussion just a herding of them into one place.
 
Mods, under the current peer pressure, any chance y'all would reconsider, for the benefit of the community?

As for the name, I tend to agree that "Crashes" would be a little too much for the weak ones so maybe "Aviation mishaps" would work? That way, even successful off-airport landings could be posted.
Anything BUT "accidents", please. Worst misnomer ever. Because only a tiny fraction of all mishaps are actually accidental. Majority are screw-ups. Off my soap-box now. :)
 
BigBadLou said:
As for the name, I tend to agree that "Crashes" would be a little too much for the weak ones so maybe "Aviation mishaps" would work? That way, even successful off-airport landings could be posted. Anything BUT "accidents", please. Worst misnomer ever. Because only a tiny fraction of all mishaps are actually accidental. Majority are screw-ups. Off my soap-box now. :)
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How about: "Random discussions about flights that didn't terminate with an uneventful landing and taxi-to-parking."
 
I can't keep up with modern doublespeak and trigger-avoidance. "Crashes" works fine for me, not that I have a vote. It doubles as a warning to those who don't like simple, accurate language describing difficult topics.
 
schmookeeg said:
I can't keep up with modern doublespeak and trigger-avoidance. "Crashes" works fine for me, not that I have a vote. It doubles as a warning to those who don't like simple, accurate language describing difficult topics.
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My vote for not using "crashes" would be for a broader spectrum of posts, such as off-airport landings that did not result in crashes.
Unless the mods would create a second new forum for such flight mishaps. But I thought it would be more complicated.
Either way, one or two sub-forums would be great. We just need to convince the mods that the community (aka "us crazies") would benefit from it.
 
schmookeeg said:
I can't keep up with modern doublespeak and trigger-avoidance. "Crashes" works fine for me, not that I have a vote. It doubles as a warning to those who don't like simple, accurate language describing difficult topics.
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Agreed!!
 
Beechtalk has a forum called 'Crash Talk' and nobody seems to have a problem with it existing or it being public.
 
BrianNC said:
Beechtalk has a forum called 'Crash Talk' and nobody seems to have a problem with it existing or it being public.
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It's all findable on the internet regardless of what the server settings are and if it's particularly sensational/insightful someone will share it off the board anyway so it will be found.

A Mishap forum (which can cover more lessons learned than crashes) can be really helpful, it can also be crap but I rarely walk away from a thread like that having not learned something (even if it's who not to listen to!) :D Seems like a good idea to me to centrally organize those threads.
 
I don't see how "Lessons Learned" would be the appropriate place to post crashes that just happened with unknown causes.
 
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