Can Private Pilots Have a "Job"?

Natalie

Natalie

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Natalie Ward
Hi, all!

I'm interested in becoming a pilot and have been doing research. However, I was wondering if private pilots could get a job. Here's how I was thinking it might work:

A private pilot flies for a company (e.g. banner towing, pipeline patrol, etc.) without pay. However, the company pays for the airplane cost. This would help log hours toward a CPL.

Are there such things as this?

Thanks in advance!
 
The FAA considers free hours to be compensation, so the short answer "no". There is kind of a loophole in that private pilots can tow gliders.
 
Natalie said:
Hi, all!

I'm interested in becoming a pilot …
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Awesome.

Natalie said:
… However, I was wondering if private pilots could get a job…
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Well, yes. But not flying for hire. The FAA requirement to fly for hire (a job) is to be a Commercial pilot. To get there, you must first complete the Private and Commercial pilot knowledge and experience requirements. It’s a stepping-stone path.

To fly for an airline, you have to do the Private thru Airline Transport Pilot knowledge and experience requirement.

Natalie said:
..Thanks in advance!
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You’re welcome.
 
Hey, @Natalie , welcome to the Forum! As the others have mentioned, what you described is still “getting paid” according to the FAA. Instead of getting money, they are paying you in “free flight hours,” which, if you are already looking into getting your pilot certificate, you know is quite expensive! Until you reach the CPL, with VERY limited exceptions, the scenario you described is specifically prohibited (I know, they thought of everything!) However, I am gearing up for my Commercial Pilot checkride and have paid for everything out of my own pocket (and I’m certainly not rich by any means!) If you are determined enough, you can DEFINITELY make this happen.

My biggest suggestion if you are trying to go down the Commercial pilot road is to find a local flight club. This can DRAMATICALLY reduce your costs (for me it’s about $100/hour cheaper than renting). If you already know that you are going to need lots of hours - the FAA minimum for commercial is 250 - then weigh out the additional costs of buying into a flight club against the cost of renting and you’ll find that it is most definitely worth it!

If you have additional questions about flight clubs, feel free to shoot me a message, and keep posting your questions in the forums. I will say that many of the questions you will have are questions that others have had in the past. While Doc’s comment may have been a bit sarcastic, he’s also pointing out a great feature of the site, which is to search to see if somebody else has already asked the same or similar question. PoA is a GREAT resource of pilots from every level (Student, Private, Commercial, Glider, CFI, CFI-I, MEI, ATP, Military, land, sea, and just about any other way of flying you can think of), so we’re glad that you’re now a part of that, and we’re happy to help out!
 
You can be paid for towing gliders.

I don't know if there's a reason you couldn't also do that in your own aircraft as well and then charge a rate that helps cover those costs. Some time ago the FAA determined that towing did not involve carriage of cargo or passengers. I'd run that by an aviation attorney before doing so, however, as I'm not sure of other consequences with respect to the aircraft operation, e.g. hundred hour inspections, etc..
 
Private Pilots can get paid to tow gliders. 14CFR 61.113(g)
 
flyingpreacher said:
I will say that many of the questions you will have are questions that others have had in the past. While Doc’s comment may have been a bit sarcastic, he’s also pointing out a great feature of the site, which is to search to see if somebody else has already asked the same or similar question.
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Yeah, sorry about that, y'all. I don't know what I was thinking. :frown:

flyingpreacher said:
If you have additional questions about flight clubs, feel free to shoot me a message, and keep posting your questions in the forums.
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Thanks, but before I do (if I need to), I'll do some more research.

Thanks y'all!
 
I wish that I still had that photo of the tip jar that someone taped up in the cabin of the part 135 A/C that I flew.
 
BillTIZ said:
It's not a loophole if its in the regulations. 14CFR61.113(g)
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That's fair. The reality is it's going to take more time and effort to get a glider rating and approved to tow by a glider club than to just get a commercial ticket, so it's not really a loophole at all.
 
Jim K said:
The reality is it's going to take more time and effort to get a glider rating and approved to tow by a glider club than to just get a commercial ticket…
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No glider rating required.

§ 61.69 Glider and unpowered ultralight vehicle towing: Experience and training requirements.​

(a) No person may act as pilot in command for towing a glider or unpowered ultralight vehicle unless that person—
(1) Holds a private, commercial or airline transport pilot certificate with a category rating for powered aircraft;
(2) Has logged at least 100 hours of pilot-in-command time in the aircraft category, class and type, if required, that the pilot is using to tow a glider or unpowered ultralight vehicle;
(3) Has a logbook endorsement from an authorized instructor who certifies that the person has received ground and flight training in gliders or unpowered ultralight vehicles and is proficient in—
(i) The techniques and procedures essential to the safe towing of gliders or unpowered ultralight vehicles, including airspeed limitations;
(ii) Emergency procedures;
(iii) Signals used; and
(iv) Maximum angles of bank.
(4) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, has logged at least three flights as the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft while towing a glider or unpowered ultralight vehicle, or has simulated towing flight procedures in an aircraft while accompanied by a pilot who meets the requirements of paragraphs (c) and (d) of this section.
(5) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, has received a logbook endorsement from the pilot, described in paragraph (a)(4) of this section, certifying that the person has accomplished at least 3 flights in an aircraft while towing a glider or unpowered ultralight vehicle, or while simulating towing flight procedures; and
 
TCABM said:
The FAA requirement to fly for hire (a job) is to be a Commercial pilot. To get there, you must first complete the Private and Commercial pilot knowledge and experience requirements. It’s a stepping-stone path.
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Not exactly. My first certificate was a commercial one. I never had a private pilot certificate and never took the private pilot knowledge exam.
 
I know a couple pilots that service their vending machines. They don't charge anybody for nothing they just purchase soda and chips then transport them to the machines and fill the vending machines back up. Remove the coins and return home. Flying is incidental.

There's a couple of different ways pilots use an aircraft for personal use that can be incidental to the making of a couple bucks. You can NOT fly someone else or their property for hire period. You can fly what you own though. :idea:
 
Natalie said:
Hi, all!

I'm interested in becoming a pilot and have been doing research.
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Did that research include seeing an AME for a consultation about at least a 3rd class medical?
 
odie451 said:
Did that research include seeing an AME for a consultation about at least a 3rd class medical?
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I've researched the requirements, but I haven't seen an AME yet.

Becoming a pilot isn't something I can do right now. I'm really just trying to get a thorough understanding, so I'll know where I land when I'm ready.
 
Clip4 said:
Good luck getting a job towing gliders.
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I'll agree there are not a lot of opportunities, but I see advertisements every winter for tow pilots to support the next summer season. Most clubs are volunteer pilots, flying for the fun or to build hours. Commercial glider ride companies or training schools will pay for tow pilots.
 
But most commercial operations require a Commercial certificate due to insurance requirements.

The PP exemption is mostly for clubs.
 
Pinecone said:
But most commercial operations require a Commercial certificate due to insurance requirements.

The PP exemption is mostly for clubs.
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True in most cases, but we'd been looking for years for tow pilots at Sugarbush Soaring and just recently picked up two more pilots so that need has recently been met. One obstacle is an operational decision to require around 500 hours of tailwheel time, so that narrowed the candidate base. If the operation director approves a pilot he's fully insured even operating with a Private certificate, and that pilot can be paid.
 
Natalie said:
Hi, all!

I'm interested in becoming a pilot and have been doing research. However, I was wondering if private pilots could get a job. Here's how I was thinking it might work:

A private pilot flies for a company (e.g. banner towing, pipeline patrol, etc.) without pay. However, the company pays for the airplane cost. This would help log hours toward a CPL.

Are there such things as this?

Thanks in advance!
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You’ll learn when getting private pilot that you can’t receive anything of value, including hours like you’re thinking. Others have tried to argue this and failed. The FAA has issued legal interpretations on it. No, you can’t, and no one would hire a private pilot to do commercial work.
 
I know a guy who mowed grass and shoveled snow.....and was paid with flight time. ;)
 
dbahn said:
True in most cases, but we'd been looking for years for tow pilots at Sugarbush Soaring and just recently picked up two more pilots so that need has recently been met. One obstacle is an operational decision to require around 500 hours of tailwheel time, so that narrowed the candidate base. If the operation director approves a pilot he's fully insured even operating with a Private certificate, and that pilot can be paid.
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I would consider doing a season towing just for fun, but don't have 500 TW.
 
Pinecone said:
I would consider doing a season towing just for fun, but don't have 500 TW.
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That's basically what I do. I just take out my tax withholding from each paycheck and donate most of the rest to our Youth Program (FEFY), which a remarkable experience for kids, some of whom get to solo at age 14.
 
mandm said:
Don’t be afraid to get your experience, there really is a lot to learn AFTER getting your license.
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Ditto. Soon after, you realize just how little Private Pilot actually teaches you.
 
RyanB said:
Ditto. Soon after, you realize just how little Private Pilot actually teaches you.
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I think there's a big leap when after you get a CFI rating. You don't learn a whole lot in the process of getting the rating, but you can learn a lot once you start teaching.
 
Alaska hunting lodge at one time PPL took hunters to the lodges as guides with only a Private pilot land or sea, i have no idea if you can still do that.
Federal Aviation Administration Guidelines by Howard Martin
03/27/2017
What rules apply to flight operations conducted on behalf of guides or lodges in Alaska?
Generally, if the flight operations are conducted by the guide, lodge, or employees of the guide
or lodge, and the operations are incidental to providing guide services in the field, then they
may be conducted under Part 91 of the Federal Aviation Regulations and Part 119 and 135 does
not apply. The pilot(s) must still comply with Part 61 and 67 and the aircraft maintained in
accordance with Part 43.
May a guide or lodge hire a pilot to fly for the employer if the pilot is not providing services in
the field on a regular basis?

A guide or lodge may hire someone to operate aircraft owned or leased by the guide or lodge to
transport employees, clients, property of the guide/lodge, employees or clients and not trigger
requirements under Part 135. However, a person who is hired principally to operate aircraft and
is not actually involved in providing field services must possess a commercial pilot certificate and
2 nd class airman medical certificate.
 
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dbahn said:
I think there's a big leap when after you get a CFI rating. You don't learn a whole lot in the process of getting the rating, but you can learn a lot once you start teaching.
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You can only make so many mistakes. Teaching you get to see how MANY people can figure out other ways to make mistakes. :D
 
Jim K said:
That's fair. The reality is it's going to take more time and effort to get a glider rating and approved to tow by a glider club than to just get a commercial ticket, so it's not really a loophole at all.
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True, but I do know a guy that started Towing Gliders in a Piper Pawnee this year, two days after his private pilot airplane check ride.

But to validate what you are saying, He got his private pilot glider certificate on his 16th birthday, and about 400 hrs total when he took his PP ASEL check ride on his 17th birth day.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
Clip4 said:
Good luck getting a job towing gliders.
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As the chief tow pilot responsible for checking out tow pilots for our tow plane, I require a 100hrs tailwheel time and with only a few exceptions also require a commercial pilot certificate, even though legally it is not required.

Another Club I fly for has a 182 they tow with, minimum experience is 100hrs to tow in the 182.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
brcase said:
True, but I do know a guy that started Towing Gliders in a Piper Pawnee this year, two days after his private pilot airplane check ride.
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Was that Luc?
 
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